Health care reform

[krazeeboi]

Any thoughts on the historic healthcare legislation that has just been passed? Kudos to Obama for realizing that idealism (in terms of bipartisanship) only goes so far and that people want results first and foremost.

[peaceloveunderstanding]

Since there is no national health plan it should be easy for the Republicans to gut once they take power of both houses in 2010.

[Gard]

Recent polls show that most Americans are against the health care bill, so passing it could just end up a big gift to the GOP, who will then promise to gut it in November. I subscribe to both GOP and DNC newletters and the GOP has released one already with McCain calling for a repeal of the bill. While Obama is highly unlikely to sign any appeal they send to his desk, if the GOP gains enough strength in November, they could overrule the veto. For that matter, some states are threatening (and Idaho has already passed a bill to do order the state attorney general to do so) to file a lawsuit against the federal government on the health bill, challenging its constitutionality. I think much of the bill will be sunk in the end.

[Gusterfell]

^A lot of the people who oppose the bill have no idea what it is, and have bought into heated Republican rhetoric of death panels, rationing of care, socialized medicine, and other irrelevant nonsense. Once people realize that this isn't happening, and that they are now protected from abusive insurance company practices, I suspect opposition to the bill will fade. The GOP will be routed in November if it is going to spend the coming months campaigning on a return to the status quo of patients losing their coverage for getting sick, of "preexisting conditions," and of fully-insured people going bankrupt due to coverage caps.

Frankly, I would welcome watching the Republicans argue that people with preexisting conditions should have their new access to care withdrawn, that young people should be booted from their parents plan, and that insurers should regain the right to drop you if you get sick.

Seven months is an eternity in politics, and today's heated opposition to the bill will be ancient history come election day. The Democrats will have moved on to the next issue by then, and I don't see the Republicans getting anywhere by beating what will certainly be a very dead horse.

[krazeeboi]

I also think all of this rhetoric about "most Americans are against the bill" isn't entirely truthful. For one, most recent polls show that Americans are more or less evenly split about the bill. In some polls, a sizable minority of those who say they oppose the bill do so because they don't think it goes far enough. And when you look at polls about specific elements of the bill, like extending coverage to those with pre-existing conditions and preventing insurers from dropping people when they get sick, most Americans are in favor of those things. So no, the bill isn't going to be gutted by any means. However, real cost controls are going to have to be put in place. As far as those individual states challenging the constitutionality of the bill, here's an article that deals with the uphill climb those states have in that endeavor. A pertinent excerpt:

“Everybody needs to take a deep breath,” said Bob Cooper, a spokesman for Idaho Attorney General Lawrence Wasden. “This bill is a few thousand pages long. We need some time to review it. We need time to see whether or not it impinges on rights, how so, and whether we can bring a case that has merit. There are serious sanctions for attorneys who file frivolous lawsuits” . . . .

The problem with a challenge, say conservatives, is that the mandate for health care — an idea with origins on the right that has become anathema ever since its implementation in Massachusetts — will not take effect until 2014. Whether attorneys general can successfully challenge the mandate until then is unclear. Thomas Woods, a conservative scholar who is putting the finishing touches on a Regnery-published book about nullification, suggested that challenges to the mandate will be fruitless, working their way through a legal system that has no great record of repealing major legislation.

[cityboi]

Here is the thing. The media talks about national polls but the midterm election is really about a few key districts that could go either way. Most democrats in congress represent heavily democratic districts and I think the passing of this bill has energized that base. The republicans in their district arent going to vote for them anyway. Historically the party not in power always gain seats in the midterm election. Im sure that will happen but I dont think the republicans will gain enough seats to take control of the senate or the house. The polls really reflect the public's response to how republicans are portraying the health care bill. They are portraying its as a government take over of health care which is certainly not true. Once the democrats get their message out there, we'll see poll numbers tighten up. The democrats just need to communicate more clearly to the American people whats in this bill and how it will help them and they need to explain clearly how it will cut the deficit because people are thinking this is just a massive spending bill that will add debt to future generations.

[Gard]

^A lot of the people who oppose the bill have no idea what it is

[Gusterfell]

Show me a scientific study that proves that point. Until then, it's merely an opinion that holds no basis in fact. I only debate on the basis of scientific polls and studies.

[cityboi]

On the humorous side, before Obama signed the bill a microphone picked up Joe Biden saying to Obama "This is a big f_ _ _ _in deal" as he leaned over to him. LOL im sure Biden and Obama use that word quite a bit behind closed doors. The republicans will figure out some way to use this in their congressional campaign ads. Its funny how they loop it in the video

http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2010/03/23/white-house-shrugs-off-biden-f-bomb/?hpt=T1&fbid=dhV4WIXUz3w

[cityboi]

republicans vow to repeal this healthcare reform. As long as Obama is president it wont be done. Even if the republicans took over both the house and senate they wouldn't be able to repeal because the president has the power of the veto.

[Gard]

Polls and studies are great, but they can be manipulated to say anything you want. They're no more or less valid in a discussion of a political issue than is the rhetoric of the issue's supporters and critics. In the case of this bill, a lot of the most widespread arguments against it are simply untrue. That is a fact, not an opinion.

[droonus2000]

My only big compliant is I wished the bill focused more on stabilizing costs, which is growing at a unbelievable rate, fix that and some people that currently don't think they could afford insurance could afford it. I agree we need to figure out how to insure more people but in the long run it will cost more, then if we fix it now. I also don''t want to pay a lot more in taxes to do so, then I will be drowning, now I'm getting by. Why should I pay for others bad health that they caused, obesity, smoking, excessive alcohol, etc.

On the issue of those with pre-existing conditions, they need care more then anyone, My dad has Diabetes, psoriasis, trech, feeding tube, the last 2 due to 3 cancers in the neck area. so insurance is a must, I wouldn't mind higher premiums to pay for that kind of thing.

[Gusterfell]

That's where my underlying annoyance is at right now. Not you

Now for the bill, there are widespread arguments about it that aren't 100% true, but once again, they are talking points of the GOP aimed at defeating it. What I want to know is IF these things are influencing voters, that is where my beef is. I haven't seen anything scientific evidence on it yet. As for some of the stuff in the bill (especially things such as the ban on denying coverage for preexisting conditions) is LONG overdue.

[krazeeboi]

However, we could easily fund a far more robust healthcare reform package than this by simply cancelling unnecessary defense programs left over from the Cold War and requiring corporations to pay their fair share of taxes. Most large corporations have managed to reduce their tax rates to near 0%.

[cityboi]

this is getting nasty. There have been numerous threats against congressmen and their families. Black congressmen have been spit on and called the N word by tea party members and now Sarah Palin has a map on her website which shows rifle crosshairs on the locations of democratic congressmen

I personally think the core of all this intense opposition to the healthcare bill is racism. Some people can't stand to see a black man as president accomplish what other great presidents have tried to do and failed. Bottom line, they don't want to see President Obama succeed and would rather suffer than have an African-American do great things for our country.

[krazeeboi]

I happen to believe that the most extreme manifestations of opposition have a racist slant to them as well. Sarah Palin needs to cut all this out, talking about how Americans don't need to back down, but "reload" and now this map with crosshairs on them representing Democrat congressmen? This is getting out of hand.

[Gard]

^

The violent stuff, possibly, but overall opposition, I doubt it. Why must the race card be pulled out every single time there is some type of opposition to Obama...Its as if if you are against Obama, you are racist. I oppose some parts of the bill, does that make me a racist? Regardless of the fact that I have just as many minority friends as I do those of my own race? Does that make African Americans that oppose the bill (and I know some that do) self-haters? Ok, enough of my rant! lol I'm just getting really tired of the same old arguments.

[cloudship]

I hear about all these polls that say a majority of Americans don't support the bill. What I dont see much of is why they don't support it - is it the idea of national healthcare itself, or is it they don't like how this bill deals with it. Perhaps they feel there were too many compromises in it.

I think all this threat against it and the Democrats in particular is going to backfire on the conservatives. First, there is a big split going on - this is not a good thing for the Republican party, which is where the bulk of the Tea party members are coming from. The Democrats only have to play that up, get Tea Party candidates out there into the mix, and dilute the Republican percentage. I also think they are going to end up alienating a number of people - particularly Seniors and those people with college age children trying to find jobs. Again it all depends upon how the Republican and Democrat parties end up playing things out.

Long run - I think we have finally hit that point of slow self destruction. We have too broad a gap, too much infighting and too much vengeance going on. If we can get over it, good. But if we cant get past this it is just going to keep on snowballing bigger and bigger.

[Gard]

AT&T announced today that the new health care bill will cost $1 billion and as a result, they are planning cuts to their health care plans, including possibly scrapping prescription drug coverage. The costs are a result of tax changes that result in companies paying taxes on prescription drug coverage for retirees. Caterpillar, Deere, AK Steele and Valero Engergy are also making similar moves. Verizon indicated that they are looking into it as well.

This reveals a major flaw in the bill....no wording as to what is considered insurance coverage and what isn't. With no definition, companies could effectively strip their insurance plans to practically nothing to make up for any added costs to them and still get credit from the government for having one. They could also stop offering insurance to retirees.

[cityboi]

I happen to believe that the most extreme manifestations of opposition have a racist slant to them as well. Sarah Palin needs to cut all this out, talking about how Americans don't need to back down, but "reload" and now this map with crosshairs on them representing Democrat congressmen? This is getting out of hand.

[Gard]

Quite frankly im tired of the two party system. There is too much focus on scoring political points instead of taking care of the need of the American people.

[cloudship]

Or no parties at all.

[krazeeboi]

^

The violent stuff, possibly, but overall opposition, I doubt it. Why must the race card be pulled out every single time there is some type of opposition to Obama...Its as if if you are against Obama, you are racist. I oppose some parts of the bill, does that make me a racist? Regardless of the fact that I have just as many minority friends as I do those of my own race? Does that make African Americans that oppose the bill (and I know some that do) self-haters? Ok, enough of my rant! lol I'm just getting really tired of the same old arguments.

[krazeeboi]

AT&T announced today that the new health care bill will cost $1 billion and as a result, they are planning cuts to their health care plans, including possibly scrapping prescription drug coverage. The costs are a result of tax changes that result in companies paying taxes on prescription drug coverage for retirees. Caterpillar, Deere, AK Steele and Valero Engergy are also making similar moves. Verizon indicated that they are looking into it as well.

This reveals a major flaw in the bill....no wording as to what is considered insurance coverage and what isn't. With no definition, companies could effectively strip their insurance plans to practically nothing to make up for any added costs to them and still get credit from the government for having one. They could also stop offering insurance to retirees.

[cityboi]

Just think how much would get done If we never had parties in the first place. What if people just voted for the best persons for the job instead of voting based on parties and idealogy? This nation has always been divided by the party system but the division intensified during the 2000 election and its been that way ever since. But if democrats want to keep the majority of its seats in congress, they are going to have to take a page from the Obama 2008 election campaign and energize key voting demographics (young people, women and African-Americans). That would help offset independent voters who will be voting republican in November and Obama needs to be on the campaign trail for these congressmen as if hes running for president again. Obama energizes voters, not congressmen