Upstate OR Greenville-_________?

[GvilleSC]

With the recent landing of Southwest Airlines, every corner of the Upstate has hailed this as a huge victory. And, it is. Since the airport serves the entire area, the entire population has reason to celebrate the new low cost carrier's arrival. However, what puzzles me is this--

In the most recent Greenville News report on the economic impacts of Southwest, the City of Greenville physically got involved with the officials of SWA. They dined in downtown Greenville, revealed the Liberty Bridge at night, and showed off the City's most cosmopolitan sides. By the time the City of Greenville got involved however, recruiters and the Chamber of Commerce had already developed a relationship. So, Greenville's physical involvement was simply icing on the cake and the final 'woo' to seal the deal it seems...

Where is the rest of the Upstate on this? The SWA officials were taken on a helicopter tour of the mountains and Clemson, but I've yet to read any mention of other Upstate entities getting involved (other than private business leaders). It might just all be in the reporting, but it IS a little bit bothersome to think that the entire region is riding on the coat tails of Greenville. Going back to the days of incentive talks, Greenville County alone was willing to post the millions of dollars needed in matching reserve funds.

Personally, in this instance as a Greenville City and County resident, I'm fine with my tax monies going toward dining with Southwest business leaders and the once-thought-to-be-necessary incentive dollars. But, as the region grows, how can we expect regional cooperation on anything? I'm talking about important issues such transportation, planning, etc. Now, we must put this in perspective a bit, and recognize that very few, if any other, municipalities in the state are as progressively minded or pro-active as Greenville City. However, I don't think we should settle for good things to have to stop at Greenville City or County's borders because other entities are not willing to participate actively or support positive regional activities.

Is this really the Upstate as one region, or a very large 'Greater Greenville'?

[Spartan]

I'm going to be honest here, your post sounds like some good old fashioned homerism. You could have said the same thing with out coming off like Greenville is the only city in the Upstate that has anything going on and the only city that is trying.

Greenville being the primary city in the Upstate region makes it the leader. It's not an option, its a fact; and a fact we're all aware of. Being the biggest means that Greenville has to step up. Its not only about having the largest economy or recruiting large firms. Being a leader means reaching out to others - in this case Spartanburg and Anderson - if it wants help with something. I feel confident that both of their chambers of commerce would have gladly helped out had they been asked, particularly Spartanburg.

You talk about riding the coattails of Greenville? How about Greenville trying to be more selfless and engage in dialogue with its neighbors? Did Greenville ask for help? Based on your post it sure sounds like Greenville didn't ask, and that they don't want it.

Too frequently Greenville views its neighbors as competition unless it works to its advantage (e.g.: a population of 1.2 million sounds better than the 600,000 or so in the Gville Metro). Until the Upstate (Greenville, Spartanburg, and Anderson in particular) thinks and acts as one entity, we won't get past this apparent attitude of "Greenville = Upstate (oh and those other cities too)." Greenville is not the center city of a metro like Atlanta or Charlotte. Greenville is the center of a multi-nodal metro area. As the largest and geographically central city it's Greenville's job to work to make that happen. I think by taking the first step to extend olive branches, Greenville will garner more support from its neighbors in the long run.

I'm assuming of course that Greenville and Greenvillians want to see good things happen economically IN the entire Upstate, and not FOR the entire Upstate that happen to be in Greenville.

[GvilleSC]

I think you have some valid points, but at the same time, it seems that you're painting this as somewhat of a one way street. Granted, I might have come across that way initially. How many times have we discussed on here that Spartanburg and its residents don't want to BE Greenville. For example, some leaders were against hot dog carts downtown simply because Greenville had some first. Anderson and Spartanburg in particular seem to constantly be distancing themselves from Greenville in search of an identity. Under such circumstances, how can the Upstate attempt to act together? I'm not sure what an olive branch offering will do to eliminate Spartans' fears of being overshadowed. Or is that not the reason for the attempted distancing? Or is this not what's going on at all?

Would Greenville's attempt to reach out be perceived as an attempt to overtake and create that equation that Greenville=Upstate??

[gman430]

Spartanburg's CVB, Chamber of Commerce, and several companies located there including Milliken were involved with the discussions to bring Southwest Airlines here. You can even read a news article here that relates to this: http://www.goupstate.../1086?p=1&tc=pg

[GvilleSC]

Spartanburg's CVB, Chamber of Commerce, and several companies located there including Milliken were involved with the discussions to bring Southwest Airlines here. You can even read a news article here that relates to this: http://www.goupstate.../1086?p=1&tc=pg

[gman430]

I've read that article before and just re-read it. It talks about the excitement from the people that you mentioned, but nowhere does it discuss their actions to lure Southwest.

I'm not saying that they weren't involved, but I've yet to actually read it. And, I'd assume that with such a huge catch like this, you'd be putting your involvement out there for everyone to see... no?

[gs3]

I'm going to be honest here, your post sounds like some good old fashioned homerism. You could have said the same thing with out coming off like Greenville is the only city in the Upstate that has anything going on and the only city that is trying.

Greenville being the primary city in the Upstate region makes it the leader. It's not an option, its a fact; and a fact we're all aware of. Being the biggest means that Greenville has to step up. Its not only about having the largest economy or recruiting large firms. Being a leader means reaching out to others - in this case Spartanburg and Anderson - if it wants help with something. I feel confident that both of their chambers of commerce would have gladly helped out had they been asked, particularly Spartanburg.

You talk about riding the coattails of Greenville? How about Greenville trying to be more selfless and engage in dialogue with its neighbors? Did Greenville ask for help? Based on your post it sure sounds like Greenville didn't ask, and that they don't want it.

Too frequently Greenville views its neighbors as competition unless it works to its advantage (e.g.: a population of 1.2 million sounds better than the 600,000 or so in the Gville Metro). Until the Upstate (Greenville, Spartanburg, and Anderson in particular) thinks and acts as one entity, we won't get past this apparent attitude of "Greenville = Upstate (oh and those other cities too)." Greenville is not the center city of a metro like Atlanta or Charlotte. Greenville is the center of a multi-nodal metro area. As the largest and geographically central city it's Greenville's job to work to make that happen. I think by taking the first step to extend olive branches, Greenville will garner more support from its neighbors in the long run.

I'm assuming of course that Greenville and Greenvillians want to see good things happen economically IN the entire Upstate, and not FOR the entire Upstate that happen to be in Greenville.

[Spartan]

I think you have some valid points, but at the same time, it seems that you're painting this as somewhat of a one way street. Granted, I might have come across that way initially. How many times have we discussed on here that Spartanburg and its residents don't want to BE Greenville. For example, some leaders were against hot dog carts downtown simply because Greenville had some first. Anderson and Spartanburg in particular seem to constantly be distancing themselves from Greenville in search of an identity. Under such circumstances, how can the Upstate attempt to act together? I'm not sure what an olive branch offering will do to eliminate Spartans' fears of being overshadowed. Or is that not the reason for the attempted distancing? Or is this not what's going on at all?

Would Greenville's attempt to reach out be perceived as an attempt to overtake and create that equation that Greenville=Upstate??

[gs3]

So you're confirming my theory then? Greenville doesn't really care about the rest of the Upstate? Greenville's way or the highway?

[gman430]

So you're confirming my theory then? Greenville doesn't really care about the rest of the Upstate? Greenville's way or the highway?

[Spartan]

Why are you assuming the other cities are trying to hold back Greenville? I realize you may not intend it this way, but you come off as though Greenville is the only city that is doing anything. Greenville may have more quantity than the others, but that doesn't mean Greenville is the only one playing ball.

GSP is the #1 best example of regional cooperation. Spartanburg and Greenville pushed to make that happen collaboratively. It was not all one or the other. As a result, both cities and the Upstate as a whole have benefited. BMW's location in Spartanburg is probably one of the better examples of the benefits of that past collaboration. The airport was one of many selling points for their location.

[gman430]

Why are you assuming the other cities are trying to hold back Greenville? I realize you may not intend it this way, but you come off as though Greenville is the only city that is doing anything. Greenville may have more quantity than the others, but that doesn't mean Greenville is the only one playing ball.

GSP is the #1 best example of regional cooperation. Spartanburg and Greenville pushed to make that happen collaboratively. It was not all one or the other. As a result, both cities and the Upstate as a whole have benefited. BMW's location in Spartanburg is probably one of the better examples of the benefits of that past collaboration. The airport was one of many selling points for their location.

[Spartan]

I'd say a better example from the Spartanburg perspective is the recent developments in higher education. Expanding offerings at the Spartanburg Community College (soon to include a downtown campus), establishing partnerships to expand the USC Upstate's reach with their new School of Business & Economics downtown, and drawing the Virginia College of Osteopathic Medicine away from Charlotte to build it's new, attractive campus adjacent to downtown while redeveloping a former brownfield site. While this may not have the "wow factor" of ICAR, it is still improving the educational offerings within the Upstate and South Carolina, while benefiting Spartanburg in the process.

The Shared Upstate Vision link is great. I assume this is related to those charrettes that were going on in the last year or so? I didn't realize this was still ongoing. We should really have a thread dedicated to this topic. Thanks for sharing that link!

[gs3]

I'd say a better example from the Spartanburg perspective is the recent developments in higher education. Expanding offerings at the Spartanburg Community College (soon to include a downtown campus), establishing partnerships to expand the USC Upstate's reach with their new School of Business & Economics downtown, and drawing the Virginia College of Osteopathic Medicine away from Charlotte to build it's new, attractive campus adjacent to downtown while redeveloping a former brownfield site. While this may not have the "wow factor" of ICAR, it is still improving the educational offerings within the Upstate and South Carolina, while benefiting Spartanburg in the process.

The Shared Upstate Vision link is great. I assume this is related to those charrettes that were going on in the last year or so? I didn't realize this was still ongoing. We should really have a thread dedicated to this topic. Thanks for sharing that link!

[Spartan]

Clemson and USC Columbia are special because they are so large. They both draw people from across the state, nation, and world.

You'd be surprised at the number of Greenvillians at USC Upstate. It's not just a 'Spartanburg' school (which is why they changed the name from USC Spartanburg).

IMO, Furman and Wofford are pretty similar. There are a lot of Spartans at Wofford, probably similar in the amount of Greenvillians at Furnam.