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jice

Greyhound moving

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Looks like Greyhound found a new place to set up shop.. which i'm not entirely happy about, being a Gulch resident.. but whatever lol.. I am happy to see it stay close to downtown..

It's at the old Hansen Chrysler dealer at 11th and Charlotte.. They already have temporary signs and restriped the parking lot

There's a public forum on Monday the 7th at 5pm to discuss...

http://www.tennessean.com/article/20100604/DAVIDSON/100604010/Forum-on-Greyhound-bus-station-relocation

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Looks like Greyhound found a new place to set up shop.. which i'm not entirely happy about, being a Gulch resident.. but whatever lol.. I am happy to see it stay close to downtown..

It's at the old Hansen Chrysler dealer at 11th and Charlotte.. They already have temporary signs and restriped the parking lot

There's a public forum on Monday the 7th at 5pm to discuss...

http://www.tennessean.com/article/20100604/DAVIDSON/100604010/Forum-on-Greyhound-bus-station-relocation

Isn't this in the Gulch in name only? It's about as far from the redeveloping area, with the Icon, etc. as it can possibly be. The intersection at 11th and Charlotte is already nasty and blighted. I don't see how the Greyhound station could make it any more so.

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I don't think the new bus station on Charlotte would have any impact on ICON, Velocity, Terrazzo, or any other residential building. I am amazed on how anti-public transportation many Nashvillian's are! I just don't get the animosity. Every major and large city in the world has a bus depot downtown and in some cities many thousands of people live around the public transportation sectors without a complaint.

The only thing I can get out of the post by Jice as he or she is not happy about the relocation because he or she wants to avoid being around the economic status of people who ride Greyhound. Many people with better then average incomes ride the bus and if he is worried about the homeless or those of suspect nature, he had better leave the Gulch because many rogue train riders come through the Gulch hitching free transportation on the trains on a daily basis.

A Greyhound bus station does not lower property value. The nimbyism in Nashville is getting out of hand.

All levels socioeconomic status from varied backgrounds, racial identities, and cultural traditions ride the bus. The old adage of only poor black people ride the bus is a stereotype that no longer fits the profile of the American way of life. It never should have to begin with.

SEC

Edited by Solve Et Coagula

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A Greyhound bus station does not lower property value. The nimbyism in Nashville is getting out of hand.

There's hardly any property of value in the vicinity anyway. I don't think many Nashvillians know where Hope Gardens is, let alone a stranger fresh off the bus. If anything, a person with nowhere to go will probably head to downtown because that's the only relatively hospitable-looking place within site of this location anyway.

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The champions of mass transit go nuts when the announcement is made that the terminal will be in their back yard. I wish the utopian idea of mass transit would hold true, but it doesn't. Look at the idea of the Music City Circuit, I'm reading all about it thinking wow! what an awesome idea! Then I go downtown and decide to ride from Rriverfront to the Gulch to get something to eat and what I encounter? Nasty homeless people harassing me and my fiance. Now I'm a pretty big guy who grew up in the slums so I don't feel threatened by the vagabonds, but my lady coming from a different socioeconomic status than me was quite scared and didn't want to get back on. Also you have to understand I'm not talking about the mere presence of a homeless person scaring her, we were being directly harassed to the point where I almost thumped the guys head. From my count there was 1 professional on board, 3 homeless people, and 2 more people who looked homeless but may have just been poor. Now understand that I have absolutely no problem riding any bus with a poor person, I think its great that they are utilizing the free service, but is the harassment and uncleanliness of the homeless that will cause people to steer clear of this awesome service. So I think its funny the urbanite mass transit people are pissed that the greyhound station is moving closer to their house, but at the same time I see their frustration, because in no time bums will be using their alleys to poop behind their trashcans and urinate on their fences. I also want to throw in that I am also an urbanite and supporter of mass transit, I believe this issue just shows how complex the problem really is.

I don't want to get too far off topic, but we need to find a REAL solution to the homeless problem downtown. It is completely out of control and seems to be even more so since tent city was moved. I go into our best asset as a city, the downtown library, and there are homeless people naked taking a bath with sink water. This problem is real and we need to deal with it.

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The champions of mass transit go nuts when the announcement is made that the terminal will be in their back yard. I wish the utopian idea of mass transit would hold true, but it doesn't. Look at the idea of the Music City Circuit, I'm reading all about it thinking wow! what an awesome idea! Then I go downtown and decide to ride from Rriverfront to the Gulch to get something to eat and what I encounter? Nasty homeless people harassing me and my fiance. Now I'm a pretty big guy who grew up in the slums so I don't feel threatened by the vagabonds, but my lady coming from a different socioeconomic status than me was quite scared and didn't want to get back on. Also you have to understand I'm not talking about the mere presence of a homeless person scaring her, we were being directly harassed to the point where I almost thumped the guys head. From my count there was 1 professional on board, 3 homeless people, and 2 more people who looked homeless but may have just been poor. Now understand that I have absolutely no problem riding any bus with a poor person, I think its great that they are utilizing the free service, but is the harassment and uncleanliness of the homeless that will cause people to steer clear of this awesome service. So I think its funny the urbanite mass transit people are pissed that the greyhound station is moving closer to their house, but at the same time I see their frustration, because in no time bums will be using their alleys to poop behind their trashcans and urinate on their fences. I also want to throw in that I am also an urbanite and supporter of mass transit, I believe this issue just shows how complex the problem really is.

I don't want to get too far off topic, but we need to find a REAL solution to the homeless problem downtown. It is completely out of control and seems to be even more so since tent city was moved. I go into our best asset as a city, the downtown library, and there are homeless people naked taking a bath with sink water. This problem is real and we need to deal with it.

The problems that homeless people present in downtown Nashville are symptoms of downtown Nashville not being a place that functions well on a variety of fronts. The lack of responsible, contributing citizens in great enough numbers permits homeless people to have the run of the place and use downtown however they see fit. Who's to stop them? If downtown were a real, functioning collection of neighborhoods, with enough residents, businesses, places of leisure and hospitality, schools and civic venues; (productive citizens on the streets at a variety of times for a variety of reasons) then there would be significant pressures to inhibit the kind of behavior we see now from some of the homeless people.

Until downtown becomes a real, viable place to live and not just a place to visit, then it will continue to have these kinds of problems.

Producer2 you're welcome in advance.

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The problems that homeless people present in downtown Nashville are symptoms of downtown Nashville not being a place that functions well on a variety of fronts. The lack of responsible, contributing citizens in great enough numbers permits homeless people to have the run of the place and use downtown however they see fit. Who's to stop them? If downtown were a real, functioning collection of neighborhoods, with enough residents, businesses, places of leisure and hospitality, schools and civic venues; (productive citizens on the streets at a variety of times for a variety of reasons) then there would be significant pressures to inhibit the kind of behavior we see now from some of the homeless people.

Until downtown becomes a real, viable place to live and not just a place to visit, then it will continue to have these kinds of problems.

Producer2 you're welcome in advance.

Do you live downtown?

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Do you live downtown?

No. And so? Is there something I said which you would like to address or argue for or against?

Or is this to be another "you don't live here so your experience, learning and perspective don't matter" kind of argument?

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Prior to the Music City Circuit, I spent a lot of time walking from the Gulch to the Riverfront area.. most of those times across Demonbreun, directly into what is currently the Greyhound facility. I still do take this walk from time to time. But regardless.. the issue with the Greyhound station is in fact the people who linger outside and nearby it as they wait on buses to come and go. I have been harassed many times at the corner of 8th and Demonbreun.. and tend to avoid the area when possible.

The issue I have with Greyhound's new location is mainly that this area (as far as I understood) was always destined to become a much more urban area.. with rumors of an urban Target, movie theater, etc., coming to or near the intersection of 11th & Charlotte. But now.. we have Greyhound.. which I am afraid will ultimately prevent a lot of this future development, and therefore affect property values nearby.. along with bringing vagrants even closer (2 blocks closer) to the Gulch and other neighborhoods.

I am a supporter of mass transit, and ride it as much as I can. I have not had good experiences with Greyhound on the times I rode it, but I still feel like it does need to stay close to downtown and the city's transit systems. I'm just not sure 11th & Charlotte is the right place for it..

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Prior to the Music City Circuit, I spent a lot of time walking from the Gulch to the Riverfront area.. most of those times across Demonbreun, directly into what is currently the Greyhound facility. I still do take this walk from time to time. But regardless.. the issue with the Greyhound station is in fact the people who linger outside and nearby it as they wait on buses to come and go. I have been harassed many times at the corner of 8th and Demonbreun.. and tend to avoid the area when possible.

The issue I have with Greyhound's new location is mainly that this area (as far as I understood) was always destined to become a much more urban area.. with rumors of an urban Target, movie theater, etc., coming to or near the intersection of 11th & Charlotte. But now.. we have Greyhound.. which I am afraid will ultimately prevent a lot of this future development, and therefore affect property values nearby.. along with bringing vagrants even closer (2 blocks closer) to the Gulch and other neighborhoods.

I am a supporter of mass transit, and ride it as much as I can. I have not had good experiences with Greyhound on the times I rode it, but I still feel like it does need to stay close to downtown and the city's transit systems. I'm just not sure 11th & Charlotte is the right place for it..

A block in the Gulch is no sure thing, but I count about six from 11th and Charlotte south to Demonbreun Street. As far as I know, the most intense development so far in the Gulch is south of Demonbreun St. And to even approach residential Hope Gardens would take a brave and determined soul to head north up 11th ave. and across the no-mans-landscape of Jo Johnston Ave. and 10th ave. N. through not but empty lots, barbed-wire, overpasses, light-industrial, and the Snuff Factory. Sounds like fun. The hysteria over this temporary relocation is hysterical.

Any future development by Crosland at this sight is probably a long way off given the economy anyway.

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No. And so? Is there something I said which you would like to address or argue for or against?

Or is this to be another "you don't live here so your experience, learning and perspective don't matter" kind of argument?

You just seem to talk a lot about the homeless, where they are, what they are doing. You seem to know who is a productive citizen moving around downtown and who is not. That none of these folks living downtown are "responsible and contributing citizens" as you put it. Things like that,things that would require you to actually participate in them on a daily basis to makes informed statements like you are making. I am just wondering where your info comes from and if you actually know by what percentage ind increments people ( actual ones with jobs and everything) are moving into downtown and what the projections are for the future, etc.

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How temporary is this location? Could it become permanent if no more suitable location is found?

as for the distance to the Gulch.. its up to what you consider the boundaries of the Gulch to be.. some would say the gulch stretches all the way to Charlotte, and is divided into north and south Gulch at Broadway.

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You just seem to talk a lot about the homeless, where they are, what they are doing. You seem to know who is a productive citizen moving around downtown and who is not. That none of these folks living downtown are "responsible and contributing citizens" as you put it. Things like that,things that would require you to actually participate in them on a daily basis to makes informed statements like you are making. I am just wondering where your info comes from and if you actually know by what percentage ind increments people ( actual ones with jobs and everything) are moving into downtown and what the projections are for the future, etc.

You completely misunderstood the point I was making. I don't mean that the people living, working, shopping and spending leisure time there are not responsible and contributing citizens. I meant that there are not enough of those kinds of people living, working, shopping, eating, drinking, coming and going at all times of the day. That's what makes a real, viable urban place. Some people refer to it as a 24 hour downtown or some such. That's what reduces crime and makes unsavory types think twice before doing something unsavory. Nashville is not that kind of urban place, it's not there yet, and no-one can argue, with a straight face, otherwise.

In my opinion (I guess I must make this more obvious from here on), a lot of the problems people associate with downtowns (vagrants, crime) are symptomatic of downtowns no longer being fully functioning places. They function best for vagrants and criminals (because there is ample place to do bad stuff when nobody's watching) and productive citizens can only use them selectively (because most parts of the city only have single uses and only stay open for part of the day). Jane Jacobs 101.

Too many empty lots, abandoned and underutilized buildings, buildings with single uses that close down at certain parts of the day and therefore emptying the streets of people with legitimate reasons to be there; any of this sound familiar?

No, I don't currently live in downtown Nashville. Nor do I want to. However, I have lived in (not just visited) better functioning urban places, big and small. So, at least I do have some first-hand experience on which to base my opinions. And books full of smarter people's research, observations and conclusions.

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How temporary is this location? Could it become permanent if no more suitable location is found?

According to our HOA President, who was at the meeting at the Baptist church on Rosa Parks, the lease is for one year with an option for 3 one-month extensions. Greyhound says they have a permanent site picked out, in a totally commercial area (which they declined to identify) and that they have no intention of moving from the Charlotte location until the lease on the permanent site is finalized - which they hoped/expected would happen any time now.

As a Hope Gardens resident, I can say that a large part of our concern was over the fact that none of us knew a thing about what was happening until we all read it in the Tennessean, just as the remodeling was getting underway. It appears as though our councilwoman either a) knew about it in advance or b) knew of the possibility of it in advance and didn't deign to share that information with her constituents. Unfortunately, she has been less than forthcoming about her role in the whole thing - leaving us with a hat full of speculation and little in the way of facts, all leading to a lot of anger and resentment about being kept in the dark.

The location is about 1/2 mile from us - and yes, it's kind of a "no-man's land" between us and there - yet we have had to deal with a good deal of crime, homelessness, drug activity and the like. It's not that we're a bunch of "nimby's".. it's that we'd like some actual communication about what's going on around us. This deal was cut between Greyhound and Crosland. Crosland was invited to attend the community meeting, but declined. Their spokesman has agreed to send us a copy of the lease. FWIW, MDHA was invited and also declined to attend.

So. It looks as thought we'll have Greyhound in our front yards for at least a year. It looks as though they're (maybe) going to do their best to be a good neighbor. Fortunately, we have a very good relationship with the local police precinct and they share our concerns about what's going on and have committed to increase their patrols and basically stay on Greyhound to be a good neighbor.

david

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You completely misunderstood the point I was making. I don't mean that the people living, working, shopping and spending leisure time there are not responsible and contributing citizens. I meant that there are not enough of those kinds of people living, working, shopping, eating, drinking, coming and going at all times of the day. That's what makes a real, viable urban place. Some people refer to it as a 24 hour downtown or some such. That's what reduces crime and makes unsavory types think twice before doing something unsavory. Nashville is not that kind of urban place, it's not there yet, and no-one can argue, with a straight face, otherwise.

In my opinion (I guess I must make this more obvious from here on), a lot of the problems people associate with downtowns (vagrants, crime) are symptomatic of downtowns no longer being fully functioning places. They function best for vagrants and criminals (because there is ample place to do bad stuff when nobody's watching) and productive citizens can only use them selectively (because most parts of the city only have single uses and only stay open for part of the day). Jane Jacobs 101.

Too many empty lots, abandoned and underutilized buildings, buildings with single uses that close down at certain parts of the day and therefore emptying the streets of people with legitimate reasons to be there; any of this sound familiar?

No, I don't currently live in downtown Nashville. Nor do I want to. However, I have lived in (not just visited) better functioning urban places, big and small. So, at least I do have some first-hand experience on which to base my opinions. And books full of smarter people's research, observations and conclusions.

That is my point. You don't seem to have the info required to make those kinds of statements. Did you know that until 2003 there was no downtown living initiative plan for the city. Here is the link link

Though growth has slowed because of the obvious economic situation, it will pick up again. Here is a chart of the growth over the last several years since the initiative:

Year End-of-Year Unit Totals

Unit

Growth %

2001 1,572

2002 1,604 32 2%

2003 1,681 77 5%

2004 1,719 38 2.3%

2005 1,803 84 5%

2006 2,342 539 30%

2007 2,350 8 0.3%

2008 3,279 929 40%

2009 3,711 432 13%

2010 est. 3,820 109 3%

Not as quick as we all would like but growth non the less. Since the initiative is only 6.5 years old I would not be quick to compare Nashville to other cities who have been on this track for decades. Downtown will soon have its second grocery, affordable housing and several new restaurants. New hotels, parks on the waterfront, and several new companies and locations offering new jobs downtown that did not exist 6 months ago. It takes time and a progressive mind to continue that push. In Nashville the naysayers are so prevalent it probably takes a little longer. But the City will get there and those who want to will have a great quality of life living within the downtown corridor.

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According to our HOA President, who was at the meeting at the Baptist church on Rosa Parks, the lease is for one year with an option for 3 one-month extensions. Greyhound says they have a permanent site picked out, in a totally commercial area (which they declined to identify) and that they have no intention of moving from the Charlotte location until the lease on the permanent site is finalized - which they hoped/expected would happen any time now.

As a Hope Gardens resident, I can say that a large part of our concern was over the fact that none of us knew a thing about what was happening until we all read it in the Tennessean, just as the remodeling was getting underway. It appears as though our councilwoman either a) knew about it in advance or b) knew of the possibility of it in advance and didn't deign to share that information with her constituents. Unfortunately, she has been less than forthcoming about her role in the whole thing - leaving us with a hat full of speculation and little in the way of facts, all leading to a lot of anger and resentment about being kept in the dark.

The location is about 1/2 mile from us - and yes, it's kind of a "no-man's land" between us and there - yet we have had to deal with a good deal of crime, homelessness, drug activity and the like. It's not that we're a bunch of "nimby's".. it's that we'd like some actual communication about what's going on around us. This deal was cut between Greyhound and Crosland. Crosland was invited to attend the community meeting, but declined. Their spokesman has agreed to send us a copy of the lease. FWIW, MDHA was invited and also declined to attend.

So. It looks as thought we'll have Greyhound in our front yards for at least a year. It looks as though they're (maybe) going to do their best to be a good neighbor. Fortunately, we have a very good relationship with the local police precinct and they share our concerns about what's going on and have committed to increase their patrols and basically stay on Greyhound to be a good neighbor.

david

Thanks for the info David. Good to know that there is some kind of plan at least.

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That is my point. You don't seem to have the info required to make those kinds of statements. Did you know that until 2003 there was no downtown living initiative plan for the city. Here is the link link

Though growth has slowed because of the obvious economic situation, it will pick up again. Here is a chart of the growth over the last several years since the initiative:

Year End-of-Year Unit Totals

Unit

Growth %

2001 1,572

2002 1,604 32 2%

2003 1,681 77 5%

2004 1,719 38 2.3%

2005 1,803 84 5%

2006 2,342 539 30%

2007 2,350 8 0.3%

2008 3,279 929 40%

2009 3,711 432 13%

2010 est. 3,820 109 3%

Not as quick as we all would like but growth non the less. Since the initiative is only 6.5 years old I would not be quick to compare Nashville to other cities who have been on this track for decades. Downtown will soon have its second grocery, affordable housing and several new restaurants. New hotels, parks on the waterfront, and several new companies and locations offering new jobs downtown that did not exist 6 months ago. It takes time and a progressive mind to continue that push. In Nashville the naysayers are so prevalent it probably takes a little longer. But the City will get there and those who want to will have a great quality of life living within the downtown corridor.

Hmm, once again you seem to be talking at me rather than really responding to what I'm trying to say. At the risk of being redundant let me try one last time.

If you follow the course of the conversation (my remarks don't come out of left field for no reason or just to criticize Nashville because that's how I get my jollies) there is a discussion about the effects of the Greyhound bus station on its new location; effect on property values, crime, vagrants, etc. Will the Hope Gardens/North Gulch area see the kinds of loitering and other ills that have impacted the old location?

My response to those concerns (one more time) is basically that a city can't address them first, by somehow waiving a magic wand and making all the bad people go away. Rather, there has to exist an actual city (a healthy urban space) full of people going about their lawful and legitimate business in order to mitigate the effects of people going about their unlawful and illegitimate business. (I put my main point in italics so there can be less confusion) And maybe let me add that as Nashville transitions back (it has been there before) to a healthier state of being, there is going to be some tension between good people, like the residents of Hope Gardens and the Gulch for instance, and somewhat less good people because there is too much vacant, underutilized, single-use space and dead space; the kinds of spaces that enable crime, vandalism and other ugly behavior. That's going to be the price of living in urban Nashville for some time, unfortunately.

Notice that nowhere above did I say that the number of residents downtown wasn't growing, or that the people living and working there aren't nice people, or that new business weren't coming, or that there wasn't an initiative to attract development, retail and residents (I've read it, too, Producer), or a new form-based code (a very excellent thing and the very code that allowed for the Greyhound Station to move to its new location), or any other new and positive things that are undeniably happening and will continue to happen in the future. I think I've covered most of the red herrings and straw-men some may want to throw my way. :)

Edited by Nashvillain

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Hmm, once again you seem to be talking at me rather than really responding to what I'm trying to say. At the risk of being redundant let me try one last time.

If you follow the course of the conversation (my remarks don't come out of left field for no reason or just to criticize Nashville because that's how I get my jollies) there is a discussion about the effects of the Greyhound bus station on its new location; effect on property values, crime, vagrants, etc. Will the Hope Gardens/North Gulch area see the kinds of loitering and other ills that have impacted the old location?

My response to those concerns (one more time) is basically that a city can't address them first, by somehow waiving a magic wand and making all the bad people go away. Rather, there has to exist an actual city (a healthy urban space) full of people going about their lawful and legitimate business in order to mitigate the effects of people going about their unlawful and illegitimate business. (I put my main point in italics so there can be less confusion) And maybe let me add that as Nashville transitions back (it has been there before) to a healthier state of being, there is going to be some tension between good people, like the residents of Hope Gardens and the Gulch for instance, and somewhat less good people because there is too much vacant, underutilized, single-use space and dead space; the kinds of spaces that enable crime, vandalism and other ugly behavior. That's going to be the price of living in urban Nashville for some time, unfortunately.

Notice that nowhere above did I say that the number of residents downtown wasn't growing, or that the people living and working there aren't nice people, or that new business weren't coming, or that there wasn't an initiative to attract development, retail and residents (I've read it, too, Producer), or a new form-based code (a very excellent thing and the very code that allowed for the Greyhound Station to move to its new location), or any other new and positive things that are undeniably happening and will continue to happen in the future. I think I've covered most of the red herrings and straw-men some may want to throw my way. :)

Wow, teflon man ... are you doing a little backtracking? Here is an exact quote

"In my opinion (I guess I must make this more obvious from here on), a lot of the problems people associate with downtowns (vagrants, crime) are symptomatic of downtowns no longer being fully functioning places. They function best for vagrants and criminals (because there is ample place to do bad stuff when nobody's watching) and productive citizens can only use them selectively (because most parts of the city only have single uses and only stay open for part of the day). Jane Jacobs 101."

Which is backtracking from this statement:

"Until downtown becomes a real, viable place to live and not just a place to visit, then it will continue to have these kinds of problems."

Which was initiated by these statements:

"Isn't this in the Gulch in name only? It's about as far from the redeveloping area, with the Icon, etc. as it can possibly be. The intersection at 11th and Charlotte is already nasty and blighted. I don't see how the Greyhound station could make it any more so."

"There's hardly any property of value in the vicinity anyway. I don't think many Nashvillians know where Hope Gardens is, let alone a stranger fresh off the bus. If anything, a person with nowhere to go will probably head to downtown because that's the only relatively hospitable-looking place within site of this location anyway. "

So how is it exactly that come all the way around to your initial point that there is no harm because there is nothing worth having in that area anyway?

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Wow, teflon man ... are you doing a little backtracking? Here is an exact quote

"In my opinion (I guess I must make this more obvious from here on), a lot of the problems people associate with downtowns (vagrants, crime) are symptomatic of downtowns no longer being fully functioning places. They function best for vagrants and criminals (because there is ample place to do bad stuff when nobody's watching) and productive citizens can only use them selectively (because most parts of the city only have single uses and only stay open for part of the day). Jane Jacobs 101."

Which is backtracking from this statement:

"Until downtown becomes a real, viable place to live and not just a place to visit, then it will continue to have these kinds of problems."

Which was initiated by these statements:

"Isn't this in the Gulch in name only? It's about as far from the redeveloping area, with the Icon, etc. as it can possibly be. The intersection at 11th and Charlotte is already nasty and blighted. I don't see how the Greyhound station could make it any more so."

"There's hardly any property of value in the vicinity anyway. I don't think many Nashvillians know where Hope Gardens is, let alone a stranger fresh off the bus. If anything, a person with nowhere to go will probably head to downtown because that's the only relatively hospitable-looking place within site of this location anyway. "

So how is it exactly that come all the way around to your initial point that there is no harm because there is nothing worth having in that area anyway?

What?

First of all, what does your last question even mean? There are some words missing and messed-up syntax that make it incromphrehensible to me. Who's talking about "no harm" and "there is nothing worth having"? Second of all, the initial sentence of mine which you quote and the second which you say is backtracking from the first--are the same statements made inversely! They say the same thing! Thirdly, I'm going to stop talking to you now because I suspect you're just arguing with me because you don't like me and this is undoubtedly boring for anyone else. Have a nice life.

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What?

First of all, what does your last question even mean? There are some words missing and messed-up syntax that make it incromphrehensible to me. Who's talking about "no harm" and "there is nothing worth having"? Second of all, the initial sentence of mine which you quote and the second which you say is backtracking from the first--are the same statements made inversely! They say the same thing! Thirdly, I'm going to stop talking to you now because I suspect you're just arguing with me because you don't like me and this is undoubtedly boring for anyone else. Have a nice life.

I don't know you personally so I can't like or dislike you. I am not arguing with you simply pointing out that you are full of it.

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According to our HOA President, who was at the meeting at the Baptist church on Rosa Parks, the lease is for one year with an option for 3 one-month extensions. Greyhound says they have a permanent site picked out, in a totally commercial area (which they declined to identify) and that they have no intention of moving from the Charlotte location until the lease on the permanent site is finalized - which they hoped/expected would happen any time now.

As a Hope Gardens resident, I can say that a large part of our concern was over the fact that none of us knew a thing about what was happening until we all read it in the Tennessean, just as the remodeling was getting underway. It appears as though our councilwoman either a) knew about it in advance or b) knew of the possibility of it in advance and didn't deign to share that information with her constituents. Unfortunately, she has been less than forthcoming about her role in the whole thing - leaving us with a hat full of speculation and little in the way of facts, all leading to a lot of anger and resentment about being kept in the dark.

The location is about 1/2 mile from us - and yes, it's kind of a "no-man's land" between us and there - yet we have had to deal with a good deal of crime, homelessness, drug activity and the like. It's not that we're a bunch of "nimby's".. it's that we'd like some actual communication about what's going on around us. This deal was cut between Greyhound and Crosland. Crosland was invited to attend the community meeting, but declined. Their spokesman has agreed to send us a copy of the lease. FWIW, MDHA was invited and also declined to attend.

So. It looks as thought we'll have Greyhound in our front yards for at least a year. It looks as though they're (maybe) going to do their best to be a good neighbor. Fortunately, we have a very good relationship with the local police precinct and they share our concerns about what's going on and have committed to increase their patrols and basically stay on Greyhound to be a good neighbor.

david

Thanks for your information. Crossland has dropped the ball on this one like many Titans receivers last year! Many developers come to town like Crossland, Tower Development, Novare, Market Street, Eakin Partners etc..., and many others and some are better with information and thus get more projects done than others. It remains to be seen what happens in the area, but Charlotte Avenues is the next "Big" development area. Since the public housing projects have been replaced with the nice and quaint multi-colored houses (which require an income of $19,000+ to live there) Charlotte could be an area of great development. The proximity to the hospitals is key for development. HCA is needing to expand....again so expect some cranes in the area in the next few years as we are already seeing with the new Centennial addition going up now. The views of the State Capital can be a selling point for development. A rich cultural neighborhood could be developed there. Right now the benefit of Greyhound temporarily locating there is the land is now creating tax revenue and patrons of the bus line will need to spend their money somewhere while they are waiting. That is a reason why development could be sparked in the area.

SEC

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So any guesses about where their undisclosed "completely commercial" area is? After the fiasco they went through on Murfreesboro Rd. i imagine they will have to do everything in secret to survive. No offense to anyone, but the argument that it would lower property values on Murf Rd. was a joke IMO. Personally, i thought the site was ideal. The first thing that comes to mind for me is in Melrose, where Melrose Billiards currently stands, although i would NOT like that one bit, i don't think the neighborhood would allow it, and it's pretty far out anyways. Any other ideas? East Bank? Greer?

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Greer would be perfect if the Sounds get their new ballpark. However, I think there have been plans for a Civil War Park and Museum over there where Greer stands now.

SEC

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So.. looks like the new Greyhound location is now in use... buses.. people... etc.. have shown up in the past few days.

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