History of Charlotte

[NCMike1990]

9 minutes ago, KJHburg said:

the historical Barringer Hotel aka Hall House hopefully will  become a luxury hotel again.  It was the first high rise built in a decade when it opened back in 1940.   Photo from today.  Love all the brick of this hotel. 

http://cmhpf.org/S&Rs Alphabetical Order/Surveys&RBarringerHotel.htm

This building needs to be saved. Is it in decent condition? I assume it's better structural integrity than the Polk Building, yes?

[KJHburg]

^^^ Yes I think this hotel is fairly decent shape and was used as seniors housing about 3-4 years ago but it will need to be gutted inside I am sure.  But what a great brick building which is very rare in Charlotte especially this height. 

[NCMike1990]

1 hour ago, KJHburg said:

^^^ Yes I think this hotel is fairly decent shape and was used as seniors housing about 3-4 years ago but it will need to be gutted inside I am sure.  But what a great brick building which is very rare in Charlotte especially this height. 

That's good news! I think the odds are in our favor and this building will not share the same fate as the Polk Building.

[Scribe]

On 2/25/2018 at 2:50 AM, NCMike1990 said:

I think the odds are in our favor and this building will not share the same fate as the Polk Building.

I think for this one, I need to sharpen my pitch-fork if there's wind of them trying to demolish it.

I just hope they do not make it sit - like Carolina Theater - for decades before they find someone to bring life to it again.  I think they need to actively recruit a tenant, up-thread we've discussed a few hotel chains that know how to restore an old building into beautiful hotels!

[Exile]

What is the lobby like? Does it have any "grand-hotel" potential?

[Guest]

1 minute ago, Exile said:

What is the lobby like? Does it have any "grand-hotel" potential?

Quote

The Barringer Hotel is entered through the central front doors and opens into a large lobby approximately ninety-feet wide and thirty-feet deep. The lobby, which occupies the front section of the first floor, has black-and-white-checked terrazzo floors, gypsum-board walls, and dropped ceilings (dating to 1983) with crown molding (likely dating to 1950). The space is punctuated by tall, square supports that extend the height of the eighteen-foot rooms. The posts are covered with gypsum board and topped by heavy, modillioned crown molding and paneled wood wainscoting at the bottom. Upon entering the lobby, one looks straight back to the two elevator bays, which are surrounded by floor-to-ceiling decorative raised-panel paneling, likely dating to 1950, with modillioned crown molding, identical to that on the support posts. To the left of the elevators is the mail service area, which, historically, was the reception desk. It has a projecting rectangular counter, finished with raised-panel wainscoting, and a large, rectangular opening. This opening was enclosed with plate glass in 1983 but was originally open to the reception office. Raised-panel wainscoting covers the lower portion of the rear and side walls. A section in the right, front portion of the lobby area was partitioned into rooms for the main offices. A hallway to the right leads from the lobby to the side vestibule entrance on the southwest side of the building; another hallway leads from this hall to the southeast dining hall/banquet area.

One enters the dining room through double-leafed raised-panel doors topped by a fanlight, followed by a round-arched opening of similar size and proportion. Similar to the main lobby, the expansive dining room has eighteen-foot ceilings (with a dropped ceiling from 1983), black terrazzo floors and two rows of substantial square posts, like to those in the lobby except with horizontal boards for wainscoting. The room is located along the southwest wall of the building. The large, curved bay with floor-to-ceiling windows brings lots of light into the room from the right-side (southwest) wall. Walls are gypsum board with a simple wainscoting around the perimeter. The wainscoting is made of horizontal eight-inch boards between sixinch baseboards and a molded chair rail. It is not clear whether this wainscoting is original or a later replacement. On the left wall, opposite the curved bay window, are two doors surrounded by floor-to-ceiling paneling, also likely dating to 1950, identical to that in the lobby surrounding the elevator bays. The doors lead to a janitor’s closet and a dish-return area for the kitchen, then onto service hallways and mechanical areas. At the rear wall of the dining room is a large doorway identical to the one leading from the lobby, leading to the kitchen area.

The large, windowless commercial kitchen makes up the building’s rear section of the first floor. The kitchen includes several refrigerators, food preparation and cooking areas with large stoves and ovens, a bakery, an office, and a serving area. The left (northeast) side of the first floor is accessed by a short hallway on the left side of the front lobby and contains service stairwells, men’s and women’s restrooms, offices and a workroom at the rear of the building, which was used most recently as a craft room for elderly residents. The workroom/craft room has terrazzo floors and square supports without molding or wainscoting. It is unknown how this room was used historically.

The mezzanine areas are only on the left (northeast) side and rear of the building, as the high ceilings of the front lobby and dining room take up the remainder of this level. The mezzanine rooms, which include a game room, a ballroom, restrooms, and service areas, are accessible by stairwells near the center of the building. The service areas have linoleum and carpeted floors, and stairs in these areas have decorative cast-iron balustrades, likely added in 1950. Spanning the rear section of the mezzanine level, over the kitchen, is the ballroom, which was used as an activities room in more recent years. The large room has a roughly nine-foot ceiling. There is a tray ceiling at the center of the room that has a modern dropped ceiling; the remainder of the ceiling is covered with gypsum board. There are gypsum-board walls and black-and-white terrazzo floors. It is unclear if these are original or were later updated. Around the room at regular intervals are large, rounded, fluted pilasters with Corinthian capitals, which add decoration to the windowless space. The game room, located along the northeast wall of the building in front of the ballroom, has carpeted floors and two square supports without molding or wainscoting. It is unknown how the space was originally used.

The upper levels, which include floors two through twelve, have similar floor plans. Each floor contains apartments arranged along the exterior walls and are all accessible by hallways running around the interior mechanical and service areas, including elevator shafts, stairwells, mechanical chases, and service closets. A light well is located at the center of the rear section of the original hotel building, which separates it from the 1950 rear addition. The light well retains original paired, double-hung, three-over-three window sash along the southeast-facing wall. The second through twelfth floors of the rear addition each have access to the central stairwell and a trash room. The hallways in both the 1940 and 1950 sections of the building have colorful, bordered linoleum floors and dropped ceilings. Each apartment throughout the entire building is accessible by blank, hollow-core doors. The doors in the 1940 building have brass, Art Deco-style knockers engraved with the room numbers, which are likely original.

The apartments have gypsum-board walls, linoleum and carpeted floors, and textured ceilings. Each apartment has a bathroom, which contains its 1940s features in the original building and similar 1950s features in the rear addition. The 1940 bathrooms have large castiron tubs with shower heads, cast wall-mount sinks, porcelain toilets, built-in medicine cabinets, pink mosaic ceramic-tile floors and full-height pink ceramic-tile walls with four-inch tiles. The bathrooms in the 1950 rear addition have almost identical features, though the ceramic tile only extends half-way up the wall. The tiles are a combination of pink and yellow

Here is an interior description from the National Register of Historic Places.

[stiluvclt]

This is not related to the Barringer although I remember when it had WRPL Radio studios on about the 8th floor.

Say, I grew up on Seneca Place in the 50s & 60s slightly west of the Sugar Creek Trib Bridge (Madison Park). Are there any older plats that show how much property Mr. Graham's (Billy's dad) Dairy farm incapsulated? I'd love to know if it went that far west of Park Road?

 

[KJHburg]

My fear with this building is not demo but just dragging along since it is city owned.  This would make a great hotel again and Indigo would love it I am sure and there are plenty of other brands too.  The one thing I noticed sitting on the streets on N Tryon this weekend   is it like a whole other downtown.  The south end of uptown is so bustling with new construction than this area, the library redux, the new Lennar tower, 10 Tryon will finally cause even more development.  And if the BofA involvement in a tower at the police station and adjoining parking lot will jumpstart this area. That is why I say there is PLENTY of room for more high rises inside the loop.   There are 3-4 surface parking lots on Tryon for crying out loud up here (and remember that was the case on the southend of Uptown too but now all being developed)  However any historical building like this needs to be saved.  A 12 story all brick tower is such a rarity now in Charlotte (but not in the other NC downtowns) 

Edited February 26, 2018 by KJHburg
photo added

[JacksonH]

On 11/25/2017 at 10:44 AM, KJHburg said:

Here is one of the few building facade saves in uptown Charlotte I sure hope we can do something with the Polk building.  Raleigh is doing something with the old Dillon Supply Building facade incorporating it in a new 17 story office building downtown. 

 

If they can do this in Washington, DC  -- this is about a dozen facades of old historic buildings, covering the lower floors of a modern high-rise like fine clothing -- then saving the Polk Building facade should be a piece of cake.   This is an important business district along Pennsylvania Avenue.  In this area, they had to allow progress to happen.  But allowing progress does not mean you you have to destroy history.  You can have progress and save your history (they are not mutually exclusive), and this example proves it.

Edited March 4, 2018 by JacksonH
Text needed more detail.

[KJHburg]

^^^ That looks like 2000 Pennasylvania Ave towards Georgetown?  I live there as a teenager in the DC area.    I do think we need to make every effort to retain these commercial historical building especially in uptown.    We do a fairly good job with historical homes here but not with commercial buildings.  We have some really good looking buildings left and every effort must to maintain them.    That is why I so upset about Polk Bldg and why it can't be saved or the Spivey McQuery (Diehl law) building.   That building could be spruced up and made into the bar or dining area of the new JW Marriott or whatever hotel they build there.   How many buildings do we have in uptown Charlotte with earthquake bolts??

[DMann]

How about the old Charlotte National Bank facade on the corner of 4th and Caldwell?

[JacksonH]

17 hours ago, KJHburg said:

^^^ That looks like 2000 Pennasylvania Ave towards Georgetown?  I live there as a teenager in the DC area.    I do think we need to make every effort to retain these commercial historical building especially in uptown.    We do a fairly good job with historical homes here but not with commercial buildings.  We have some really good looking buildings left and every effort must to maintain them.    That is why I so upset about Polk Bldg and why it can't be saved or the Spivey McQuery (Diehl law) building.   That building could be spruced up and made into the bar or dining area of the new JW Marriott or whatever hotel they build there.   How many buildings do we have in uptown Charlotte with earthquake bolts??

Yes, it's the 2000 block of Pennsylvania Ave, in the neighborhood of George Washington University, not quite as far down as Georgetown which is about eight blocks further.  And as you know, historic Georgetown is almost completely intact. 

I agree with your comment.  Leaders and developers just don't try very hard.  And it may come back to bite.  Here's an interesting article on the need to preserve aging buildings in a city.  The idea is that these buildings tend to have lower rents (because th mortgage was paid ff long ago).  So these places are necessary for young entrepreneurs to flourish:  They need to be in the city, but can't afford to be in expensive skyscrapers.  Without a place for entrepreneurs to thrive, the future of the city is put in peril.  Quoting from the article:  "ordinary old buildings are essential to the ongoing economic health of a city.  If all buildings in a district or a city are expensive, there is nowhere for new ideas (fledgling businesses and industries etc.) to take root. Without this, the city’s economy will eventually stagnate."    https://citybuilderbookclub.org/2012/03/06/margaret-zeidler-on-the-need-for-aged-buildings-cheap-rent-adaptable-space/

[Guest]

On 3/4/2018 at 3:38 AM, JacksonH said:

 

If they can do this in Washington, DC  -- this is about a dozen facades of old historic buildings, covering the lower floors of a modern high-rise like fine clothing -- then saving the Polk Building facade should be a piece of cake.   This is an important business district along Pennsylvania Avenue.  In this area, they had to allow progress to happen.  But allowing progress does not mean you you have to destroy history.  You can have progress and save your history (they are not mutually exclusive), and this example proves it.

Theres a huge difference between these buildings and polk, and thats their huge setbacks. Polk has literally a 4 ft sidewalk. That's one of the biggest reasons the building can't be saved. They'd have to move the entire facade back 8 feet.

[SgtCampsalot]

2 minutes ago, ricky_davis_fan_21 said:

Theres a huge difference between these buildings and polk, and thats their huge setbacks. Polk has literally a 4 ft sidewalk. That's one of the biggest reasons the building can't be saved. They'd have to move the entire facade back 8 feet.

Is this the DOT issue you mentioned, that they want more ROW for Graham?

[Guest]

44 minutes ago, SgtCampsalot said:

Is this the DOT issue you mentioned, that they want more ROW for Graham?

They don't want, they are required. The Graham ROW extends 8 feet into the building. 

[JacksonH]

37 minutes ago, ricky_davis_fan_21 said:

They don't want, they are required. The Graham ROW extends 8 feet into the building. 

Nothing is impossible.  Exemptions to many laws and regulations are frequently made for historic structures.  Somebody just needs to care enough to take up the cause and fight the DOT for an exemption for this building.  Besides, this building already existed before this DOT requirement.

Edited March 5, 2018 by JacksonH

[Guest]

1 minute ago, JacksonH said:

Nothing is impossible.  Exemptions to many laws and regulations are frequently made for historic structures.  Somebody just needs to care enough to take up the cause and fight the DOT for an exemption for this building.

not sure I want an exemption. If anything Graham should get a road diet. Its being deemphasized as a main artery anyways. 

[JacksonH]

32 minutes ago, ricky_davis_fan_21 said:

not sure I want an exemption. If anything Graham should get a road diet. Its being deemphasized as a main artery anyways. 

Road diet, I like that idea.  We don't need an obese Graham St.  I have no idea how much that part of Graham St. is used, but personally speaking I don't think I've ever accessed that part of UT Charlotte via Graham St.  I've only entered via Trade, Tryon or College.

Edited March 5, 2018 by JacksonH

[archiham04]

My mother grew up in Statesville and as a child ONLY came into Charlotte via Graham St.  

[Windsurfer]

3 hours ago, ricky_davis_fan_21 said:

not sure I want an exemption. If anything Graham should get a road diet. Its being deemphasized as a main artery anyways. 

Noooooo!    It's backed up every morning now as it is.  Backed up way beyond the split at Statesville.   Where would we northern folk come in from Davidson besides the new toll highway ?  Surely, there needs to be more than one way of coming to town. There really isn't another way... possibly Brookshire I guess.   

I keep citing Portland Oregon.... one of my favorites. They still have plenty of 4 lanes roads leading into the heart of Portland and its center is always hopping.

Edited March 5, 2018 by Windsurfer
.

[JacksonH]

36 minutes ago, archiham04 said:

My mother grew up in Statesville and as a child ONLY came into Charlotte via Graham St.  

I don't know how old your mother is, but if you're traveling to Charlotte today from Statesville, you would be coming down I-77.  To get onto Graham St. from there in order to get into UT means first having to exit onto I-277, whereas getting onto Trade St. is a direct exist off of I-77.  So getting in via Graham St. today seems to me like an odd approach.

22 minutes ago, Windsurfer said:

Noooooo!    It's backed up every morning now as it is.  Backed up way beyond the split at Statesville.   Where would we northern folk come in from Davidson besides the new toll highway ?  Surely, there needs to be more than one way of coming to town. There really isn't another way... possibly Brookshire I guess.   

I keep citing Portland Oregon.... one of my favorites. They still have plenty of 4 lanes roads leading into the heart of Portland and its center is always hopping.

Time to build that Red Line! 

[archiham04]

^77 did not come into Charlotte until 1975  Statesville Hwy was... the highway that got you to and from Statesville.  

[tozmervo]

40 minutes ago, archiham04 said:

^77 did not come into Charlotte until 1975  Statesville Hwy was... the highway that got you to and from Statesville.  

And today, 77, Statesville Rd, and Old Statesville Road all give you about the same commute time from North Meck.

[NCMike1990]

Since we're talking about roads I have to ask why do so many of Charlotte's major streets lack center turn lanes? This is something that I've noticed from looking at Google Maps imagery. I don't live in Charlotte but it seems the lack of turn lanes would cause plenty of traffic headaches.

[SgtCampsalot]

9 minutes ago, NCMike1990 said:

Since we're talking about roads I have to ask why do so many of Charlotte's major streets lack center turn lanes? This is something that I've noticed from looking at Google Maps imagery. I don't live in Charlotte but it seems the lack of turn lanes would cause plenty of traffic headaches.

Yoy must just be looming at certain areas. That's just the standard circumstance of roads only having so much ROW? If a road in Charlotte has space you'd better believe it has a turning lane!

The places I tend to see it the least is when the ROW either allows 4 general lanes or 2 general lanes and a turn lane.

Edited March 6, 2018 by SgtCampsalot