History of Charlotte

[Guest]

Right. I agree we don’t put enough emphasis on the negative aspects of our history but this just seems like shoehorned relevance. More important to me that the Meck Dec is probably not even real lol

[SgtCampsalot]

10 hours ago, MothBeast said:

Right. I agree we don’t put enough emphasis on the negative aspects of our history but this just seems like shoehorned relevance. More important to me that the Meck Dec is probably not even real lol

Oh snap, shots fired! 

 

11 hours ago, tozmervo said:

You could rewrite that article and swap out mec dec day with July the 4th. 

^^^ This.

This is funny because it is just a reduction of the bigger, parallel core conversation to be had about whether to lean into our settler colonial history (whether it be traditional Jingoism, or of the "Hamilton" variety), versus building something new as we dismantle the current State we have.

Though like most mainstream outlets it's only scratching the surface of this without addressing the core of what they're trying to get at, which IMO typically alienates those that aren't already in agreement with said surface argument; addressing the root issue usually creates more cross-cultural appeal  (this is the annoyance people have with "liberals")

Edited May 21, 2021 by SgtCampsalot

[KJHburg]

History of Charlotte through tee-shirts from the KJ historical collection.  (these are not worn now but just kept for historical purposes at least that is what I tell myself)

a tee shirt from the front page of the Observer the day the team was announced.

also historical old cell phone I had LOL

[JRNYP2C]

On 5/27/2021 at 10:01 AM, KJHburg said:

History of Charlotte through tee-shirts from the KJ historical collection.  (these are not worn now but just kept for historical purposes at least that is what I tell myself)

a tee shirt from the front page of the Observer the day the team was announced.

also historical old cell phone I had LOL

I believe I still have that newspaper stashed away somewhere too!

[KJHburg]

5 hours ago, JRNYP2C said:

I believe I still have that newspaper stashed away somewhere too!

I probably do too but did not want to admit it.  

[KJHburg]

In remembrance of Memorial Day and this is the reason for the holiday.  Since I am not near the Salisbury National Cemetery here is the Beaufort National Cemetery in the lowcountry of SC.

From the Civil War to current wars. 

 

[rancenc]

1975's announcement of Chick Fil A's opening at the old Eastland Mall.  I remember when this restaurant was only in malls.  I think it was in the early to mid 90's that you started seeing them become freestanding restaurants!

http://charlotteeats.blogspot.com/2008/02/eastland-mall-1970s.html

 

[Nick2]

[videtur quam contuor]

I know that map. On that map there is an area close to where the Panther Stadium is to day with three short streets, Hill, Vance and Jackson Terrace. All named for the Civil War generals. Likely named at the same time. Hill is the only one that survives. I have said for years that Stonewall was a long ago street, perhaps prior to the Civil War, but most importantly that no one celebrating the martyr of the Lost Cause would use his nickname rathe than his honest name. I do not expect emotion and current political winds to follow logic.

[slipperypete]

1 hour ago, tarhoosier said:

I have said for years that Stonewall was a long ago street, perhaps prior to the Civil War, but most importantly that no one celebrating the martyr of the Lost Cause would use his nickname rathe than his honest name. 

I don't know about that. Charlotte was a very, very small place before the 1850s. After a look into which might be the truth, I'm of the opinion that it was named for the general after the war. It's there in the 1875 map, which is the earliest I can find that shows this area gridded at all. 

Here's the 1875 map (with bonus pimping of the Meck Deck):

Note that at this point all the streets east of College (except Myers) have alphabetical letter names. Thirty years is a long time, obviously, but it sure looks like there was a big expansion of the grid in that time, much of which had no buildings marked on the 1875 map. If it was only "Stone wall street" then sure, but with Vance and Hill in there, it sure looks like think there was a theme at work in the naming.  

Here's 1845:

It sure would be interesting to see a map from ~1860.  Either way I sure could use some Wilson & Black's Stomach Bitters. 

[videtur quam contuor]

KJH posted a proposal for Tryon Park development and I thought it should be re-posted here about William Tryon, Colonial governor of North Carolina and New York. His wiki does him no favors. He had bad timing in his selection for the posts of governor, bad judgment in his administration and bad character to round off his reputation. 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Tryon

He married a wealthy woman, daughter of a Governor of the East Indian Bombay Company (££££) and she was a Wake family member thus Wake County and Wake Forest.

[videtur quam contuor]

In my version of "Drunk History" I imagine how one would feel knowing one was ruled from 2000+ miles away by an inherited nepotistic nobility of dopes while neighbors and landowners here were of meritocratic stock (with vivid exceptions*) and wanted an entirely different way to determine the future. Tryon, et al, put the problem under a magnifying glass. He (they) impossible to ignore and immune from blame or recall and with taxing and policing authority over all. 

*women, blacks, landless

PS-If we wanted to rename a street/feature/school because of the sins of the historic namesake, William Tryon should be first in line.

 

 

[slipperypete]

3 hours ago, tarhoosier said:

If we wanted to rename a street/feature/school because of the sins of the historic namesake, William Tryon should be first in line.

I'm with you on renaming Tryon stuff. He has an outsized influence on NC place names considering how little he contributed positively to our history.  But first? I don't think renaming proposals are exclusively about erasing "sins" or who was the most positive person in history. 

At least some of the renaming discussions are about the intent of the naming and their ongoing impact. Why might the city have given the names Stonewall, Vance, and Hill in 1869* to streets through a part of town populated by recently freed slaves? I don't think it was to make them feel more welcome. It looks like one of many tactics used during the Jim Crow era to keep black people down. It's like the confederate flag that started flying at the SC capitol in 1961. It wasn't there before the civil rights movement, but suddenly this was an important symbol of history to have on the property of the seat of government and not at all racist. Yeah. Even with the most charitable reading of intent, if we assume that it was not a racist action. Then the streets were named to honor members of a failed, traitorous uprising against the federal government.  

So I'm in favor of erasing those kinds of symbols and names, which are bad not just because of the actions of the namesake, but also because of the intent of those who did the naming.  The stuff named Tryon doesn't carry that kind of baggage. 

*Date obtained from an SPLC map of public symbols of the Confederacy. 

[Matthew.Brendan]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fort_Tryon_Park
 

Highest point in Manhattan and lovely in the autumn. This was late October.  Can view the palisades across the river. 
 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Palisades_(Hudson_River)

 

 

[KJHburg]

Since city of Charlotte housing authority Inlivian wants to tear down the historical Hotel Barringer on N Tryon perhaps they should look how San Antonio is doing an affordable housing project.  Hint they are keeping the old hotel and incorporating into a new tower.    Why could not the old hotel rooms but used as a single occupancy rooms with bathroom and communal kitchens and new construction adjacent to it?   I still think Inlivian Charlotte Housing is being very shortsighted in this project.  Save the Hall House/Hotel Barringer.  

Bexar County, Weston Urban to partner on apartments at Continental Hotel in west downtown San Antonio - San Antonio Heron (saheron.com)

[KJHburg]

The story of America and its independence is personal to me.  My brother and my Covid project was writing our family history book along with others in the family.  It is now published and is 345 pages hardback. Select collectors from around the Carolinas have purchased them.  I am apart of the Founding Families of US, and could be a member of Sons of the Revolutionary War as well. Both sides of my family arrived in America in 1635 at Boston (mom) and near Jamestown VA (dad) way before this country was a country! 

Mom's side quickly moved south to Connecticut then to Long Island NY.  In fact my 10th great grandfather Lion Gardner born in England on my birthday in 1599 came to Boston in 1635 on the "Batchelor" ship. He was hired by the Colony of Connecticut to construct fortifications. In 1639 he purchased a large island off Long Island now named Gardiner Island which was independent at first from New York and the New England colonies. His son was the first English child born in Connecticut. 
On my dad's side was my 7th Great Grandfather William S Norwood.  His cousin was Governor of Virginia, his brother was Treasurer of the Colony of VA then lived in Virginia until migrating to NC first Granville County, then to Chatham County NC.  Also on my dad's side was my 6th great grandfather Capt. William Goldston born in Scotland, The town of Goldston in Chatham County is named for him and his burial site is there. He got a King's grant of land in Chatham for his service in the British Navy. He was active in the Colonial militia and fought for independence of the colonies. NC was so poor back then as most colonies he had vouchers promising future payment.  One such found in the NC Archives states he was owed 60 lbs of bacon and 4.5 bushels of corn.  (Not sure if the colony now state of NC paid this but will gladly as his 6th great grandson will collect on behalf of the family especially the bacon) 
On my mom's side my 9th great grandfather Lt Governor Thomas Lloyd was born in Wales, went to Oxford, then immigrated in 1638  with William Penn to a new colony called Pennsylvania.  He was Master of the Rolls in Philadelphia and worked along side William Penn in established the Commonwealth of PA. He served 3 years as Lt Governor of the colony of Pennsylvania.  Later generations moved south first to VA then to Orange County NC.  ( I  lived in Philadelphia area for 8 years and always felt at home there even though I was born in Charlotte and loved their history there)  Also on mom's side my 5th great grandfather Johann Muller born in Germany came through Philly in 1739 and was given a land grant in 1753 in Rowan County where he is buried to this day. He had 15 children through 2 wives one an Native American.  He built some of the first roads in Rowan and Cabarrus county (no wonder I like highways to this day)  He was a Lt. in the NC Militia from 1776-1781 and one his sons served with him.  15 children was nothing in my family history.  My 2nd great grandfather born in 1813 in Chatham County had 25 kids! from 4 wives! He by the way was wheelwright making wooden wagon wheels. 

I am a proud American and unapologetically patriotic.  I love exploring my ancestral roots in Europe (England, Wales, Scotland, Ireland and Germany) and Africa (Nigeria and Cameroon) . Important counties in our family history in NC would be Chatham, Alamance, Orange, Guilford, Mecklenburg, Union, Rowan and Cabarrus.  My dad from Greensboro Guilford county and mom from Mecklenburg county met here in Charlotte and the rest as they say is history.  Places where most of ancestors lived outside of NC would be Long Island (around the Hamptons before they became popular!) Jamestown VA both north and south of the James River and Philadelphia.  I love this country and will celebrate Independence Day.  Of course our nation is not without fault but NO nation is and ours has been and is a shining beacon on the hill for many worldwide that continues to this day.  There is not another country that has so many people willing to die to get here.    Happy Birthday America!  
 

all flags are from North Carolina including the first one which is in Johnson City TN which at the time of July 4 1776 was part of the North Carolina colony. 

[Norm2]

5 hours ago, KJHburg said:

The story of America and its independence is personal to me.  My brother and my Covid project was writing our family history book along with others in the family.  It is now published and is 345 pages hardback. Select collectors from around the Carolinas have purchased them.  I am apart of the Founding Families of US, and could be a member of Sons of the Revolutionary War as well. Both sides of my family arrived in America in 1635 at Boston (mom) and near Jamestown VA (dad) way before this country was a country! 

Mom's side quickly moved south to Connecticut then to Long Island NY.  In fact my 10th great grandfather Lion Gardner born in England on my birthday in 1599 came to Boston in 1635 on the "Batchelor" ship. He was hired by the Colony of Connecticut to construct fortifications. In 1639 he purchased a large island off Long Island now named Gardiner Island which was independent at first from New York and the New England colonies. His son was the first English child born in Connecticut. 
On my dad's side was my 7th Great Grandfather William S Norwood.  His cousin was Governor of Virginia, his brother was Treasurer of the Colony of VA then lived in Virginia until migrating to NC first Granville County, then to Chatham County NC.  Also on my dad's side was my 6th great grandfather Capt. William Goldston born in Scotland, The town of Goldston in Chatham County is named for him and his burial site is there. He got a King's grant of land in Chatham for his service in the British Navy. He was active in the Colonial militia and fought for independence of the colonies. NC was so poor back then as most colonies he had vouchers promising future payment.  One such found in the NC Archives states he was owed 60 lbs of bacon and 4.5 bushels of corn.  (Not sure if the colony now state of NC paid this but will gladly as his 6th great grandson will collect on behalf of the family especially the bacon) 
On my mom's side my 9th great grandfather Lt Governor Thomas Lloyd was born in Wales, went to Oxford, then immigrated in 1638  with William Penn to a new colony called Pennsylvania.  He was Master of the Rolls in Philadelphia and worked along side William Penn in established the Commonwealth of PA. He served 3 years as Lt Governor of the colony of Pennsylvania.  Later generations moved south first to VA then to Orange County NC.  ( I  lived in Philadelphia area for 8 years and always felt at home there even though I was born in Charlotte and loved their history there)  Also on mom's side my 5th great grandfather Johann Muller born in Germany came through Philly in 1739 and was given a land grant in 1753 in Rowan County where he is buried to this day. He had 15 children through 2 wives one an Native American.  He built some of the first roads in Rowan and Cabarrus county (no wonder I like highways to this day)  He was a Lt. in the NC Militia from 1776-1781 and one his sons served with him.  15 children was nothing in my family history.  My 2nd great grandfather born in 1813 in Chatham County had 25 kids! from 4 wives! He by the way was wheelwright making wooden wagon wheels. 

I am a proud American and unapologetically patriotic.  I love exploring my ancestral roots in Europe (England, Wales, Scotland, Ireland and Germany) and Africa (Nigeria and Cameroon) . Important counties in our family history in NC would be Chatham, Alamance, Orange, Guilford, Mecklenburg, Union, Rowan and Cabarrus.  My dad from Greensboro Guilford county and mom from Mecklenburg county met here in Charlotte and the rest as they say is history.  Places where most of ancestors lived outside of NC would be Long Island (around the Hamptons before they became popular!) Jamestown VA both north and south of the James River and Philadelphia.  I love this country and will celebrate Independence Day.  Of course our nation is not without fault but NO nation is and ours has been and is a shining beacon on the hill for many worldwide that continues to this day.  There is not another country that has so many people willing to die to get here.    Happy Birthday America!  
 

all flags are from North Carolina including the first one which is in Johnson City TN which at the time of July 4 1776 was part of the North Carolina colony. 

Going down one branch of my family tree on my Mom's side, one relative came over near the Boston area on a ship called the Mayflower about 10 years after the original Mayflower landed in America. Apparently Mayflower was a common name for ships at the time.....

[Windsurfer]

On 7/3/2021 at 11:17 PM, norm21499 said:

Going down one branch of my family tree on my Mom's side, one relative came over near the Boston area on a ship called the Mayflower about 10 years after the original Mayflower landed in America. Apparently Mayflower was a common name for ships at the time.....

Could it not have crisscrossed the ocean more than once?

[Norm2]

1 hour ago, Windsurfer said:

Could it not have crisscrossed the ocean more than once?

From the research I found online, it definitely wasn't the same Mayflower unfortunately.

[videtur quam contuor]

Almost all  the earliest records of colonists in the late 1500's and early 1600's tell a story again and again: unprepared groups land on the most inhospitable land available and struggle with swamp disease, scurvy, bad water, indefensible locations, poor soil, on and on. Even to the extent of burning the ship in a few cases to prevent mutiny and a return to England/France . Then I realized that the desperate group had hung their ass (and gut) over the boat for weeks at a time, mostly non sailors, frightened of the sea and its fury, helpless in their tiny ship bobbing like a cork, reduced to chewing the rigging, and when they saw land finally they were ON IT. NO Discussion. Those who survived a year or so, if any, moved to a more hospitable location and with proper resupply made a life of it. Natural human behavior, in other words.

From Newfoundland and Lord Baltimore to Charles Town  in current South Carolina.

[KJHburg]

Up at the NC History Museum in Raleigh and saw some interesting displays and items of interest for the Charlotte region.    If you have not seen our state museum book yourself a ticket on Amtrak and go to this free museum across from the State Capitol in downtown Raleigh.  Or drive the 2.5 hours up here.  (Next door in the great NC Natural History museum also free)

Learn about your state whether you are a native or new NC resident.
Woolsworth counter from Salisbury,  stats were about the  1917-18 Spanish flu talking about NC deaths. 

Manger Inn in Charlotte is where the Skyhouses on N Tryon are today. 

NC Museum of History

 

[Windsurfer]

On 7/6/2021 at 8:24 AM, norm21499 said:

From the research I found online, it definitely wasn't the same Mayflower unfortunately.

You must've done some pretty in-depth research to find this out.  I do know for fact, however, that many of the early vessels were used over and over. Cook's voyage around the world was an older, recycled work boat.  As far as burning them to keep citizens from mutinying, I'd like to see some documentation on that.   A boat was very precious in those days.  imagine the man hours and craftsmanship to build one.  More than likely, mutineers burned down the boats in their attempts.

[Norm2]

11 hours ago, Windsurfer said:

You must've done some pretty in-depth research to find this out.  I do know for fact, however, that many of the early vessels were used over and over. Cook's voyage around the world was an older, recycled work boat.  As far as burning them to keep citizens from mutinying, I'd like to see some documentation on that.   A boat was very precious in those days.  imagine the man hours and craftsmanship to build one.  More than likely, mutineers burned down the boats in their attempts.

After doing a little more research, it looks like the original Mayflower was sold off for scrap about 3 or 4 years after landing in America. 

[Windsurfer]

7 hours ago, norm21499 said:

After doing a little more research, it looks like the original Mayflower was sold off for scrap about 3 or 4 years after landing in America. 

Very interesting!  Thanks

[kermit]

Charlotte has an impressive degree of centrality here in this 1935 (pre-interstate era) map of bus routes. Population was between 80 and 100 thousand at the time. Rail network centrality was probably marginally more impressive at the time.

Interesting airport pre-cursor.

 

Edited July 17, 2021 by kermit