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Right. I agree we don’t put enough emphasis on the negative aspects of our history but this just seems like shoehorned relevance. More important to me that the Meck Dec is probably not even real lol

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Thought y'all might like to see my little comparison shot of uptown from the same vantage point, 1986-2019

Bonnie Cone, founder of Charlotte's university. A remarkable and rare person. How many universities are started by women?  I hope every UNCC student knows they stand on her legacy. I met her once

This church was founded by freed slaves and this building is from 1896.   Today a beautiful church uptown.  Corner of 7th and N College. 

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10 hours ago, MothBeast said:

Right. I agree we don’t put enough emphasis on the negative aspects of our history but this just seems like shoehorned relevance. More important to me that the Meck Dec is probably not even real lol


Oh snap, shots fired! :shades:

 

11 hours ago, tozmervo said:

You could rewrite that article and swap out mec dec day with July the 4th. 

^^^:whistling: This.

This is funny because it is just a reduction of the bigger, parallel core conversation to be had about whether to lean into our settler colonial history (whether it be traditional Jingoism, or of the "Hamilton" variety), versus building something new as we dismantle the current State we have.

Though like most mainstream outlets it's only scratching the surface of this without addressing the core of what they're trying to get at, which IMO typically alienates those that aren't already in agreement with said surface argument; addressing the root issue usually creates more cross-cultural appeal  (this is the annoyance people have with "liberals")

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I know that map. On that map there is an area close to where the Panther Stadium is to day with three short streets, Hill, Vance and Jackson Terrace. All named for the Civil War generals. Likely named at the same time. Hill is the only one that survives. I have said for years that Stonewall was a long ago street, perhaps prior to the Civil War, but most importantly that no one celebrating the martyr of the Lost Cause would use his nickname rathe than his honest name. I do not expect emotion and current political winds to follow logic.

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1 hour ago, tarhoosier said:

I have said for years that Stonewall was a long ago street, perhaps prior to the Civil War, but most importantly that no one celebrating the martyr of the Lost Cause would use his nickname rathe than his honest name. 

I don't know about that. Charlotte was a very, very small place before the 1850s. After a look into which might be the truth, I'm of the opinion that it was named for the general after the war. It's there in the 1875 map, which is the earliest I can find that shows this area gridded at all. 

Here's the 1875 map (with bonus pimping of the Meck Deck):

charlotte_centennial_map_of_charlotte_1875.thumb.jpg.3be2793d5fa6886f8262a430365f9bef.jpg

Note that at this point all the streets east of College (except Myers) have alphabetical letter names. Thirty years is a long time, obviously, but it sure looks like there was a big expansion of the grid in that time, much of which had no buildings marked on the 1875 map. If it was only "Stone wall street" then sure, but with Vance and Hill in there, it sure looks like think there was a theme at work in the naming.  

Here's 1845:

charlotte_plan_of_the_city_of_charlotte_1845.thumb.jpg.66a2a671a565b628de6e44ab60c47f79.jpg

It sure would be interesting to see a map from ~1860.  Either way I sure could use some Wilson & Black's Stomach Bitters. 

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KJH posted a proposal for Tryon Park development and I thought it should be re-posted here about William Tryon, Colonial governor of North Carolina and New York. His wiki does him no favors. He had bad timing in his selection for the posts of governor, bad judgment in his administration and bad character to round off his reputation. 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Tryon

He married a wealthy woman, daughter of a Governor of the East Indian Bombay Company (££££) and she was a Wake family member thus Wake County and Wake Forest.

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In my version of "Drunk History" I imagine how one would feel knowing one was ruled from 2000+ miles away by an inherited nepotistic nobility of dopes while neighbors and landowners here were of meritocratic stock (with vivid exceptions*) and wanted an entirely different way to determine the future. Tryon, et al, put the problem under a magnifying glass. He (they) impossible to ignore and immune from blame or recall and with taxing and policing authority over all. 

*women, blacks, landless

PS-If we wanted to rename a street/feature/school because of the sins of the historic namesake, William Tryon should be first in line.

 

 

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5 hours ago, KJHburg said:

The story of America and its independence is personal to me.  My brother and my Covid project was writing our family history book along with others in the family.  It is now published and is 345 pages hardback. Select collectors from around the Carolinas have purchased them.  I am apart of the Founding Families of US, and could be a member of Sons of the Revolutionary War as well. Both sides of my family arrived in America in 1635 at Boston (mom) and near Jamestown VA (dad) way before this country was a country! 

Mom's side quickly moved south to Connecticut then to Long Island NY.  In fact my 10th great grandfather Lion Gardner born in England on my birthday in 1599 came to Boston in 1635 on the "Batchelor" ship. He was hired by the Colony of Connecticut to construct fortifications. In 1639 he purchased a large island off Long Island now named Gardiner Island which was independent at first from New York and the New England colonies. His son was the first English child born in Connecticut. 
On my dad's side was my 7th Great Grandfather William S Norwood.  His cousin was Governor of Virginia, his brother was Treasurer of the Colony of VA then lived in Virginia until migrating to NC first Granville County, then to Chatham County NC.  Also on my dad's side was my 6th great grandfather Capt. William Goldston born in Scotland, The town of Goldston in Chatham County is named for him and his burial site is there. He got a King's grant of land in Chatham for his service in the British Navy. He was active in the Colonial militia and fought for independence of the colonies. NC was so poor back then as most colonies he had vouchers promising future payment.  One such found in the NC Archives states he was owed 60 lbs of bacon and 4.5 bushels of corn.  (Not sure if the colony now state of NC paid this but will gladly as his 6th great grandson will collect on behalf of the family especially the bacon) 
On my mom's side my 9th great grandfather Lt Governor Thomas Lloyd was born in Wales, went to Oxford, then immigrated in 1638  with William Penn to a new colony called Pennsylvania.  He was Master of the Rolls in Philadelphia and worked along side William Penn in established the Commonwealth of PA. He served 3 years as Lt Governor of the colony of Pennsylvania.  Later generations moved south first to VA then to Orange County NC.  ( I  lived in Philadelphia area for 8 years and always felt at home there even though I was born in Charlotte and loved their history there)  Also on mom's side my 5th great grandfather Johann Muller born in Germany came through Philly in 1739 and was given a land grant in 1753 in Rowan County where he is buried to this day. He had 15 children through 2 wives one an Native American.  He built some of the first roads in Rowan and Cabarrus county (no wonder I like highways to this day)  He was a Lt. in the NC Militia from 1776-1781 and one his sons served with him.  15 children was nothing in my family history.  My 2nd great grandfather born in 1813 in Chatham County had 25 kids! from 4 wives! He by the way was wheelwright making wooden wagon wheels. 

I am a proud American and unapologetically patriotic.  I love exploring my ancestral roots in Europe (England, Wales, Scotland, Ireland and Germany) and Africa (Nigeria and Cameroon) . Important counties in our family history in NC would be Chatham, Alamance, Orange, Guilford, Mecklenburg, Union, Rowan and Cabarrus.  My dad from Greensboro Guilford county and mom from Mecklenburg county met here in Charlotte and the rest as they say is history.  Places where most of ancestors lived outside of NC would be Long Island (around the Hamptons before they became popular!) Jamestown VA both north and south of the James River and Philadelphia.  I love this country and will celebrate Independence Day.  Of course our nation is not without fault but NO nation is and ours has been and is a shining beacon on the hill for many worldwide that continues to this day.  There is not another country that has so many people willing to die to get here.    Happy Birthday America!  
 

all flags are from North Carolina including the first one which is in Johnson City TN which at the time of July 4 1776 was part of the North Carolina colony. 

BigFlagTN.jpg

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US Flag Concord Mills 01.28.2021.jpg

Going down one branch of my family tree on my Mom's side, one relative came over near the Boston area on a ship called the Mayflower about 10 years after the original Mayflower landed in America. Apparently Mayflower was a common name for ships at the time.....

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On 7/3/2021 at 11:17 PM, norm21499 said:

Going down one branch of my family tree on my Mom's side, one relative came over near the Boston area on a ship called the Mayflower about 10 years after the original Mayflower landed in America. Apparently Mayflower was a common name for ships at the time.....

Could it not have crisscrossed the ocean more than once?

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Almost all  the earliest records of colonists in the late 1500's and early 1600's tell a story again and again: unprepared groups land on the most inhospitable land available and struggle with swamp disease, scurvy, bad water, indefensible locations, poor soil, on and on. Even to the extent of burning the ship in a few cases to prevent mutiny and a return to England/France . Then I realized that the desperate group had hung their ass (and gut) over the boat for weeks at a time, mostly non sailors, frightened of the sea and its fury, helpless in their tiny ship bobbing like a cork, reduced to chewing the rigging, and when they saw land finally they were ON IT. NO Discussion. Those who survived a year or so, if any, moved to a more hospitable location and with proper resupply made a life of it. Natural human behavior, in other words.

From Newfoundland and Lord Baltimore to Charles Town  in current South Carolina.

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On 7/6/2021 at 8:24 AM, norm21499 said:

From the research I found online, it definitely wasn't the same Mayflower unfortunately.

You must've done some pretty in-depth research to find this out.  I do know for fact, however, that many of the early vessels were used over and over. Cook's voyage around the world was an older, recycled work boat.  As far as burning them to keep citizens from mutinying, I'd like to see some documentation on that.   A boat was very precious in those days.  imagine the man hours and craftsmanship to build one.  More than likely, mutineers burned down the boats in their attempts.

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11 hours ago, Windsurfer said:

You must've done some pretty in-depth research to find this out.  I do know for fact, however, that many of the early vessels were used over and over. Cook's voyage around the world was an older, recycled work boat.  As far as burning them to keep citizens from mutinying, I'd like to see some documentation on that.   A boat was very precious in those days.  imagine the man hours and craftsmanship to build one.  More than likely, mutineers burned down the boats in their attempts.

After doing a little more research, it looks like the original Mayflower was sold off for scrap about 3 or 4 years after landing in America. 

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7 hours ago, norm21499 said:

After doing a little more research, it looks like the original Mayflower was sold off for scrap about 3 or 4 years after landing in America. 

Very interesting!  Thanks

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