Orlando Transit

[aent]

8 hours ago, maxairmike said:

I think maglev was a pointless waste of money for that distance anyway. I don't remember, but unless the same line was going out to either coast, maglev for local routes doesn't make financial sense IMO. All of these stakeholders and development districts need to get on the same page for unified transport line designs with similar modes to help reduce costs (both in planning and the final products). If they can't cooperate, the counties/cities need to do so and take up the planning/organizing work.

The elevated maglev system as proposed was estimated to cost $350 million, all privately funded. Switching it to light rail increased the cost to $560 million, without providing any substantial benefit. Heavy rail would further increase the cost. Plus, it was proposed as a fully privately funded system with an agreement to post a bond to cover its removal and restore everything if it failed to remain operational. I really don't understand the risk the taxpayers had, and why we would want to pay $200 million extra for basically no potential benefit?

The maglev system is gaining popularity in other countries because, on new systems, it has less moving parts, reducing maintenance/operational costs, and on elevated systems, it weighs significantly less so the the entire structural system can be significantly smaller and lighter, thus making it cheaper... you don't need to support the weight of any sort of fuel or engine onboard the trams.

It really doesn't make much sense for the counties/cities to get involved and spend money when a private enterprise is willing to do it all... we're getting no return on our money.

I mean our geniuses that lead us seem to be spending hundreds of millions of dollars, if not billions, on a train station that apparently is going to have no trains, as one train was never funded with little plans to do so (Sunrail), one was funded privately that the airport decided to reject because they don't trust it (maglev), and one is undergoing litigation and clearly experiencing multiyear delays (if it even happens)... and we're still building the billion dollar facility that is almost guaranteed to sit empty for several years while its new.

[jrs2]

3 minutes ago, aent said:

The elevated maglev system as proposed was estimated to cost $350 million, all privately funded. Switching it to light rail increased the cost to $560 million, without providing any substantial benefit. Heavy rail would further increase the cost. Plus, it was proposed as a fully privately funded system with an agreement to post a bond to cover its removal and restore everything if it failed to remain operational. I really don't understand the risk the taxpayers had, and why we would want to pay $200 million extra for basically no potential benefit?

The maglev system is gaining popularity in other countries because, on new systems, it has less moving parts, reducing maintenance/operational costs, and on elevated systems, it weighs significantly less so the the entire structural system can be significantly smaller and lighter, thus making it cheaper... you don't need to support the weight of any sort of fuel or engine onboard the trams.

It really doesn't make much sense for the counties/cities to get involved and spend money when a private enterprise is willing to do it all... we're getting no return on our money.

I mean our geniuses that lead us seem to be spending hundreds of millions of dollars, if not billions, on a train station that apparently is going to have no trains, as one train was never funded with little plans to do so (Sunrail), one was funded privately that the airport decided to reject because they don't trust it (maglev), and one is undergoing litigation and clearly experiencing multiyear delays (if it even happens)... and we're still building the billion dollar facility that is almost guaranteed to sit empty for several years while its new.

The billion dollar facility is the South Terminal Complex; the train station is like $200M or so.

I agree with you.  I didn't realize LRT was that much more expensive.  Wow.  Brightline will happen.  I just don't like the idea that they went from relying on bonds for our leg to needing to ask the Feds for the money now.  Hopefully Rick Scott can influence them to fork over the $$$.  Mica lost his seat, so that connection is severed and his replacement is a newbie Dem who will get no favor and who probably knows nothing about transportation.  For all those who voted a straight ticket, bravo on that one.

[aent]

5 minutes ago, jrs2 said:

The billion dollar facility is the South Terminal Complex; the train station is like $200M or so.

I agree with you.  I didn't realize LRT was that much more expensive.  Wow.  Brightline will happen.  I just don't like the idea that they went from relying on bonds for our leg to needing to ask the Feds for the money now.  Hopefully Rick Scott can influence them to fork over the $$$.  Mica lost his seat, so that connection is severed and his replacement is a newbie Dem who will get no favor and who probably knows nothing about transportation.  For all those who voted a straight ticket, bravo on that one.

But my understanding is the only part actually being built now is the train station, and some parking and perhaps rental car facilities or something... the additional gates won't come until the current gates are nearing capacity, which they aren't there yet, no?

[shardoon]

10 hours ago, aent said:

But my understanding is the only part actually being built now is the train station, and some parking and perhaps rental car facilities or something... the additional gates won't come until the current gates are nearing capacity, which they aren't there yet, no?

they are officially breaking ground later this year on the gates actual terminal. 

[jack]

If they need help from the Trump administration to approve tax exempt bonds, it is still privately funded. 

[jrs2]

7 hours ago, jack said:

If they need help from the Trump administration to approve tax exempt bonds, it is still privately funded. 

Didn't it have to do with whether they could fully rely on the bonds versus partially rely on them?

[jrs2]

There's a new article today in the OBJ about Maglev, today's date, and what's next.  If anyone has a subscription and can read the article and report on it, thanks:

http://www.bizjournals.com/orlando/news/2017/06/20/exclusive-oia-to-convention-center-maglev-transit.html

 

[aent]

On 6/20/2017 at 0:56 PM, aent said:

While I agree people won't entrust their lives to it until its near perfect, autonomous vehicles, even in their early testing, are still better then people driving in snow, because we are just so freaking terrible at it.

 

Anyways, back on the topic of Orlando Transit... OBJ has an article on the ending of Maglev and whats next:

http://www.bizjournals.com/orlando/news/2017/06/20/exclusive-oia-to-convention-center-maglev-transit.html?ana=RSS%26s=article_search

 

Can't see the contents of it though, anyone know whats in it? I will forever hate the airport for not giving this project a chance since they agreed to post a bond to cover removal costs if they failed (which was everyone's concern)

 

On 6/20/2017 at 7:09 PM, jrs2 said:

[...]

I can't read that article on Maglev.  But, if they are going to use a different technology to connect Sunrail to OIA via the OUC spur easement, then I reckon they will design it so that it can head west from CSX on if the ever get the money to go to I-Drive.

 

2 hours ago, jrs2 said:

There's a new article today in the OBJ about Maglev, today's date, and what's next.  If anyone has a subscription and can read the article and report on it, thanks:

http://www.bizjournals.com/orlando/news/2017/06/20/exclusive-oia-to-convention-center-maglev-transit.html

 

 

[shardoon]

nice new fly through video of the new south terminal on OBJ

[HankStrong]

I've been quoted the article by someone with a sub.

Basically:

Maglev said "WE CAN DO IT."

County said "Ok, so let's do it."

Maglev said "WE CAN DO IT."

County said "Let's move forward"

Maglev said "WE CAN DO IT."

County said "Sounds like we're spinning our wheels and going nowhere."

Maglev said "WE CAN DO IT."

Nothing happened.

The escrow extension expires July 5th and nothing has advanced.  The county is going to issue a new RFP because everyone involved still wants a link from the CC to the Airport.

 

[aent]

2 hours ago, HankStrong said:

I've been quoted the article by someone with a sub.

Basically:

Maglev said "WE CAN DO IT."

County said "Ok, so let's do it."

Maglev said "WE CAN DO IT."

County said "Let's move forward"

Maglev said "WE CAN DO IT."

County said "Sounds like we're spinning our wheels and going nowhere."

Maglev said "WE CAN DO IT."

Nothing happened.

The escrow extension expires July 5th and nothing has advanced.  The county is going to issue a new RFP because everyone involved still wants a link from the CC to the Airport.

 

I thought the problem was they needed the permission of the airport to go into the new intermodal center, and the airport said no, we don't trust this tried and unproven maglev technology. We want light rail. Then maglev asked the county "can we build the I-Drive circulator portion first to prove our system works to the airport as it will cost $200 million more to make it light rail" and the county said no, we are only interested in a system that connects the convention center to the airport... so it got stuck since throwing an extra $200 million to appease the airport wasn't feasible.

[jrs2]

^^

that was the last thing I remembered reading too.  Maybe the Maglev people weren't greasing the right politicians to get the ok to move forward.

[HankStrong]

I'm sure it's a combo meal of many things, but A.M. certainly doesn't help their own case with words and no actions.

[jrs2]

5 hours ago, HankStrong said:

I'm sure it's a combo meal of many things, but A.M. certainly doesn't help their own case with words and no actions.

What is it that they didn't do?  Last I remember, they showed GOAA etc their vehicle in operation, but GOAA said it didn't travel fast enough so they could gage how it would handle curves at higher speeds.  Was there something else after that they needed to do on that front?

[HankStrong]

This is all they've done.

In the early 2000s they built a straight 0.6 miles long track at Old Dominion University.  The train didn't work and wasn't useable.  The college of science there took it over and got something to work, but to the best of my knowledge this just wound up being a lost cause.

In the mid-2000s they built a mock-up (a want to say <0.5 mile long) on their own land and shot a few videos like the one above.

They've attempted projects in several regions around the county and there isn't a single one built yet.  I love the tech, but I just haven't seen anything that makes me thing they'll have a big success.

 

 

 

https://pilotonline.com/inside-business/news/municipal-government/virginia-still-owed-m-after-maglev-failure/article_6a7898b9-abf8-5b87-acbb-cc93b0fa794a.html

https://www.odu.edu/eng/programs/maglev

http://ireport.cnn.com/docs/DOC-586439

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Old_Dominion_University#Maglev

 

[aent]

3 hours ago, HankStrong said:

This is all they've done.

In the early 2000s they built a straight 0.6 miles long track at Old Dominion University.  The train didn't work and wasn't useable.  The college of science there took it over and got something to work, but to the best of my knowledge this just wound up being a lost cause.

In the mid-2000s they built a mock-up (a want to say <0.5 mile long) on their own land and shot a few videos like the one above.

They've attempted projects in several regions around the county and there isn't a single one built yet.  I love the tech, but I just haven't seen anything that makes me thing they'll have a big success.

 

 

 

https://pilotonline.com/inside-business/news/municipal-government/virginia-still-owed-m-after-maglev-failure/article_6a7898b9-abf8-5b87-acbb-cc93b0fa794a.html

https://www.odu.edu/eng/programs/maglev

http://ireport.cnn.com/docs/DOC-586439

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Old_Dominion_University#Maglev

 

That looks like a working maglev train... I mean, we can't expect them to fund a full system completely on their own land and keep it operational to prove its reliability as a demo track. The concerns are valid, I feel the county's request that, before being issued a permit, they post a bond to cover the removal of the system if it doesn't meet performance and reliability standards. They agreed to it... so again, what is the risk of letting them attempt it? We're not gonna have another system in the timeframe proposed, and even if they do fail, the elevated bridge structure likely will still be useful for SOMETHING, even if its just an elevated pedestrian path, although its likely the bridge structure will be useful for more than that and be a good start towards an alternative if we can't get it going. There is no request for public funds... why waste our public funds before trying the private system with basically no risk?

[jrs2]

^^

Mears?

[spenser1058]

Lymmo's first electric bus to be tested on the Grapefruit Line - plans for it to be first in eventual conversion of the fleet.

http://orlando-rising.com/lymmo-line-will-test-electric-buses/

(From Orlando Rising)

[codypet]

When I heard electric busses, I thought like what SF Muni was 

Link

[Jernigan]

Yay?   Less emissions as it crawls down Central in mixed traffic 

[cwetteland]

19 hours ago, Jernigan said:

Yay?   Less emissions as it crawls down Central in mixed traffic 

OK, I didn't watch the whole video, but Wah?  The fastest production car in the world, Tesla model S, is battery and goes 0-60 in 2.28 seconds. Bugatti might be tied.  Battery, in no way, means slow.

[spenser1058]

4 minutes ago, cwetteland said:

OK, I didn't watch the whole video, but Wah?  The fastest production car in the world, Tesla model S, is battery and goes 0-60 in 2.28 seconds. Bugatti might be tied.  Battery, in no way, means slow.

The story also notes electric accelerates faster. Not sure how much difference it will make but I guess every little bit helps.

[Jernigan]

My comment was in response to the electric Lymmo post not the Tesla one.  Should have quoted (like I should be quoted here!)

Edited August 19, 2017 by Jernigan

[metal93]

Electric Lymmo buses? That's nice to hear but I hope they have some redesign in the works - make the Lymmo buses less "bus-like" and make them resemble trams/modern streetcars.

[jrs2]

those buses like in Vancouver and other cities with the swinging arms up top connecting to electric cables, like LRT, are they fully electric?  And if so, would that work in downtown or is there not enough space and/or are the aesthetics just not doable for hanging electric lines over Magnolia, Livingston, etc.?