Orlando Transit

[spenser1058 5448]

The change Bill requested was to the March date, to get municipal elections out of the September primaries and November general. It was Buddy’s campaign that feared the March date. And nothing like blaming the voters when you do everything in your power to make it inconvenient. Of course, cities like Tampa and St. Pete, which amazingly enough have booming downtowns, have term limits to generate better candidates and more interest. Orlando, who has an entrenched 18-year mayor and no term limits, ensures token opposition, does little and gives us a meh downtown with zero vision. Who could ask for anything more? But you’re right: if this is the downtown and the community you want, then continue to support the status quo. Personally, I believe it’s time for us to do better.

[jack 393]

41 minutes ago, spenser1058 said:

Actually, that’s a nice spin on it but not the reason why. Buddy wanted to move it away from the presidential primary that year because he feared more Republicans would turn out in a contested presidential primary than Democrats who just had Hillary and Bernie (Bernie wasn’t being taken seriously at that point, especially by Bloomberg Buddy).

That’s a little cheesy to try and choose your voters but we’ll give it a one time pass. But did he move it back in 2020 when there was plenty of Democratic interest? Nope. And the raw numbers neglect to note Orlando’s been growing right along and a single-digit turnout is nothing to cheer. Sorry, that dog won’t hunt.

When legislators gerrymander to pick their voters, it’s unacceptable. When a mayor in a local election does it, it’s even worse. But as usual anything Buddy does is simply wonderful because he’s Practically Perfect In Every Way, right?

Bottom line: if your turnout for municipal elections is already low, it’s malpractice to move it to a date where it will be even lower. And if we actually had contested elections where the challengers didn’t feel like the fix was in before they started, more people would run, we’d attract higher-quality candidates and more people would vote. Buddy wants none of that because he believes he’s doing a splendid job! And the developers who prop him up agree - what could be better?

At some point, voters need to take responsibility and participate in elections. I mean, we make it very easy to vote in Florida with absentee ballots and early voting. 

And this is not just an Orlando issue. Unless its a presidential election, voter turnout is very low. 

29 minutes ago, AmIReal said:

Ok, so you spin to match your perception. The SOE requested the change. The Commission held several public meeting and voted on it twice. It passed with 1 dissent. Many of our other local mayor elections are held in fall odd years so we're not unusual in that sense  and, again, it has not impacted the turnout number. Sure 13% is terrible turnout (although not single digit), but 2012 was lower % as was '96 and '04.  The only votes that matter are the ones that are cast. Blame voters if they don't participate.

Is that percentage eligible voters or registered voters? I ask because I see many people on TV using the terms interchangably. 

[AmIReal 1072]

18 minutes ago, spenser1058 said:

The change Bill requested was to the March date, to get municipal elections out of the September primaries and November general.

Incorrect. The Hood elections of 96 and 00 were held in the spring. SOE requested the change to the 16 election to move the local, non-partisan elections away from the highly charged Republican primaries.  

5 minutes ago, jack said:

Is that percentage eligible voters or registered voters? I ask because I see many people on TV using the terms interchangably. 

Registered.

[spenser1058 5448]

28 minutes ago, jack said:

At some point, voters need to take responsibility and participate in elections. I mean, we make it very easy to vote in Florida with absentee ballots and early voting. 

And this is not just an Orlando issue. Unless its a presidential election, voter turnout is very low. 

But not 9% low - that’s the Orlando standard. I haven’t missed an election since 1984 but to the average voter, why turn out in an off year election when the best candidates won’t be running? Compare the choices in both Tampa’s election last year and St. Pete’s upcoming one. There were and are multiple viable candidates.

The last time that happened in Orlando was 2003 and that was a special election early in the year to replace Glenda when she went to Tallahassee. Bottom line: do you want a vibrant city again with citizens participating or are you happy with the status quo? This can be fixed but only if you decide Earl K. Wood and John Land are not the model we want for Orlando. Right now, that’s what we’ve got and it’s why we’ve fallen from the most vibrant major downtown in Florida to an also-ran.

Edited December 9, 2020 by spenser1058

[Urban Mail Carrier 233]

I like Buddy Dyer!!!He helped Orlando grow, however it is time to pass the baton forward. A new leader for the next phase of the city is needed. We need fresh  thinking and a  progressive vision.

Edited December 10, 2020 by Urban Mail Carrier

[spenser1058 5448]

10 minutes ago, Urban Mail Carrier said:

I like Buddy Dyer!!!He helped Orlando grow, however it is time to pass the baton forward. A new leader for the next phase of the city is needed. Fresh thinking and a  progressive vision is needed.

Bill Frederick, generally perceived as the most effective Orlando mayor in the modern era, has stated that 10 years is long enough. He stayed 12, and like every Orlando mayor in my lifetime, they all became ineffective towards the end of their time (Carl, 14 years; Bill, 12; Glenda, 10; Buddy, 18 and counting). In fact, one reason Mayor Bill seemed like such a colossus was because by Carl Langford’s 14th year, it seemed like the city was stuck in a permanent holding pattern. Sound familiar?

Let’s applaud Buddy’s successes while recognizing the energy of any administration is lost after a decade in office. All the things that didn’t happen due to differing priorities can be addressed by a different team (both Bill and Glenda regretted they couldn’t get a PAC done - with 18 years and still counting, it looks like Buddy will achieve that goal). It’s always better to leave with the voters wanting more than for them to just stop showing up because you and your team are a spent force.

[Urban Mail Carrier 233]

Yep, very  familiar. He did his part and we as Orlandoans are grateful. He did his part, was effective for the time when Orlando needed him. Time for fresh ideas.

[AmIReal 1072]

For the sake of everyone else can we move this discussion to the local politics thread...

47 minutes ago, Urban Mail Carrier said:

Time for fresh ideas.

see politics thread

[Naqiy90 127]

On 12/9/2020 at 4:41 PM, AndyPok1 said:

Me and most people I know ride them regularly.  We would ride them even MORE if they were more available.  I walk 2 miles downtown for lunch at least once a week.  I'd love to take a scooter sometimes, but there's rarely any around for me to pick up.  They used to place them at Page/Orange, but not recently.

There will always be bad apples.  We need to regulate them, not ruin the perfect solution to last-mile transit.  A few weeks ago I went from downtown to Ivanhoe.  If there weren't scooters available, there's no way I would have gone there.  That's another 2 miles away from my house when I had already walked 2.  I may love urbanism and walking, but I'm not about to walk 4 miles home.

Scooters are okay but i'm mad they got rid of the E-Bike which are much safer and actually provide exercise. I have friends who had never ridden bikes in years but loved riding the Lime Ebikes. Scooters are fun but I never feel safe on them personally.

[dcluley98 3486]

I agree.  They could always ride a real bike. . .  But the e-bikes were great IMO for casuals who may not own a bike themselves. 

I thought they were used more than the scooters for long trips and were less scattered around just left in odd spots. I am sure it's probably easier to collect the scooters and move them around to where they are supposed to be staged than the bikes, but the bikes provided a different level of service than them, imo. 

[AndyPok1 996]

I largely hated the e bikes. Way too heavy and bulky with no shocks. With that said, yes I wish we could have both so bike casuals had the option if they wanted.

I know it's a running joke that I'm the forum drunk, but short one-way trips are the vast majority of the business model. Oh, I'm drinking downtown and I have friends that are at Hammered Lamb.  Oh, I'm running late leaving my apartment and people are waiting on me for Brunch at Stubborn Mule.  Let's have dinner at Delaney Tavern but then go downtown for the night.

You don't want to take your personal bike or scooter (I actually know 3 people that have bought their own scooter because there aren't ENOUGH bird/lime and/or there are too many regulations on them) because then you have to move it with you when bar hopping and/or have to come back the next day to get it and hope no one stole it.

[spenser1058 5448]

24 minutes ago, AndyPok1 said:

I largely hated the e bikes. Way too heavy and bulky with no shocks. With that said, yes I wish we could have both so bike casuals had the option if they wanted.

I know it's a running joke that I'm the forum drunk, but short one-way trips are the vast majority of the business model. Oh, I'm drinking downtown and I have friends that are at Hammered Lamb.  Oh, I'm running late leaving my apartment and people are waiting on me for Brunch at Stubborn Mule.  Let's have dinner at Delaney Tavern but then go downtown for the night.

You don't want to take your personal bike or scooter (I actually know 3 people that have bought their own scooter because there aren't ENOUGH bird/lime and/or there are too many regulations on them) because then you have to move it with you when bar hopping and/or have to come back the next day to get it and hope no one stole it.

Now I’m flashing back to when having a Vespa was all the rage...

[codypet 1640]

4 hours ago, dcluley98 said:

I thought they were used more than the scooters for long trips and were less scattered around just left in odd spots. I am sure it's probably easier to collect the scooters and move them around to where they are supposed to be staged than the bikes, but the bikes provided a different level of service than them, imo. 

This.  Also they're moving the staging areas where they get the most rides.  That's why the College Park/Milk District/Hourglass District and Sodo hubs are gone from Lime and Bird.  Noone seemed to start their journey there.

38 minutes ago, AndyPok1 said:

I know it's a running joke that I'm the forum drunk, but short one-way trips are the vast majority of the business model. Oh, I'm drinking downtown and I have friends that are at Hammered Lamb.  Oh, I'm running late leaving my apartment and people are waiting on me for Brunch at Stubborn Mule.  Let's have dinner at Delaney Tavern but then go downtown for the night.

For me, its a super easy way for me to get home and get my ride home paid for instead of paying for an Uber.  I've done it getting off Sunrail a couple of times.

[AmIReal 1072]

For your reading pleasure...

Metroplan 2045 Draft

https://metroplanorlando.org/2045-mtp/whats-in-the-2045-plan/2045-draft-plan-virtual-tour/

 

[spenser1058 5448]

No HOPR for you!

https://bungalower.com/2021/04/11/hopr-bikes-not-renewing-permit-in-orlando/
 

From Bungalower 

[codypet 1640]

After the scooters came out, you rarely saw anyone on the bikes.  And they made a mistake when they switched from Juice to Hopr (docked vs dockless) that they didn't go with electric assisted like LimeBike did.  They went electric assisted just a few months ago.

Edited April 12 by codypet

[sethM 107]

I only ever read the Lime bikes but assume HOPR is the same, every bike had at least one issue that made riding a pain. There’s so much upkeep on bikes especially when riders aren’t kind to them. 

The scooters seems much more binary in that they either work or they don’t. 

[spenser1058 5448]

This has been a mess from the get go. There should have been competitive bidding for a single franchise with a contract for a fixed amount of time. 

Edited April 12 by spenser1058

[codypet 1640]

1 hour ago, sethM said:

I only ever read the Lime bikes but assume HOPR is the same, every bike had at least one issue that made riding a pain. There’s so much upkeep on bikes especially when riders aren’t kind to them. 

The scooters seems much more binary in that they either work or they don’t. 

So Hopr's blue bikes weren't electric assisted, their bright green ones were (only like a month or two old now).  LimesBikes were electric assisted.  All of them were chain driven and you're right, they all seemed to have some kind of issue.  The docked Juice bikes weirdly had a prop shaft and drove much like a RWD car and therefore easier to maintain and keep up, but they were HEAVY! IMO none of these scooter companies keep up with the amount of maintenance these things require, especially with the amount of abuse they get both with regular wear and tear and intentional abuse (vandalism) from riders or people who hate them.

I've personally seen Limes where people break the screens on them (The most common damage I've seen), cut the brake lines on them, sometimes run them over, snap them at the steering mechanism.  I've also seen ones that seem perfectly normal until you ride them, and you realize, the steering is too loose or you have no brakes.  After I went to collect that one and found it in the tree, I've felt completely over it, and don't think this city is mature enough to deserve the scooters.  It was a great last mile solution in theory, but its proving to be an unregulated toy for irresponsible people.

Edited April 12 by codypet

[AmIReal 1072]

10 hours ago, codypet said:

but its proving to be an unregulated toy for irresponsible people.

say view many seem to have re: cars

[popsiclebrandon 809]

Love the scooters and they need to be used as a mobility solution more than just a fun thing. They can be both but it sucks since I moved to college park there just aren't scooters there. With my upcoming projects in Ivanhoe and Parramore I'm just going to buy a personal scooter and basically never drive my car anymore. We need to be funding solutions like that like France is doing with the tax credits for e-bikes.

[ChiDev 756]

42 minutes ago, popsiclebrandon said:

Love the scooters and they need to be used as a mobility solution more than just a fun thing. They can be both but it sucks since I moved to college park there just aren't scooters there. With my upcoming projects in Ivanhoe and Parramore I'm just going to buy a personal scooter and basically never drive my car anymore. We need to be funding solutions like that like France is doing with the tax credits for e-bikes.

I just bought myself one of these, I will let you know how it goes.  https://fatbearscooters.com/collections/scooters/products/fatbear-scooter-es295-4-0?variant=31252709998670

[nite owℓ 1096]

On 4/12/2021 at 10:08 AM, codypet said:

I've personally seen Limes where people break the screens on them (The most common damage I've seen), cut the brake lines on them, sometimes run them over, snap them at the steering mechanism.  I've also seen ones that seem perfectly normal until you ride them, and you realize, the steering is too loose or you have no brakes.  After I went to collect that one and found it in the tree, I've felt completely over it, and don't think this city is mature enough to deserve the scooters.  It was a great last mile solution in theory, but its proving to be an unregulated toy for irresponsible people.

Those were common issues seen in every major city beforehand so it's not like anyone could say they didn't see this coming upon doing basic research. This is why we wanted commissioners to put some precautions in place before unleashing them on the streets. All we got was empty words and non-enforcement. It makes no sense to allow scooter companies to regulate themselves while placing the burden on residents to waste time reporting incidents (with ZERO accountability anyway).

I'm tired of scooter users riding and discarding them in prohibited areas, hogging the sidewalk and expecting pedestrians to clear the path like the parting of the red sea, several people riding on one scooter yelling at the top of their lungs on the sidewalk, weaving in and out of traffic, driving head-on into oncoming traffic between lanes, etc. Nothing will change because no one is facing any consequences for their carelessness. I wish the city would allow the meter maids to start writing tickets and impounding scooters. Maybe then the companies will wake up and ban repeat offenders certain users from renting them.

[ChiDev 756]

Wouldn't it be more effective to just offer a ride discount for putting the scooter back into a charging port?  In Chicago we use that system for the Divvy bikes

 

[smileguy 1296]

4 hours ago, popsiclebrandon said:

With my upcoming projects in Ivanhoe and Parramore I'm just going to buy a personal scooter and basically never drive my car anymore.

Do that... then mention it to anyone at the City who has to do with planning or parking when you talk to them.  I was talking to someone in business dev about outdated parking minimums and as I was on the phone, watched someone step out of a barber shop and onto their personal scooter and ride away.  The more anecdotal examples that they have will (hopefully) help move the needle.