Orlando Transit

[dcluley98]

So the biggest hurdle, IMHO, of people using alternative transportation to the old single vehicle car is last mile solutions.  One of the biggest barriers of people actually using alternative modes of transportation is the heat and humidity in Florida.  I have often posited that a walkway system similar to the pedestrian systems/tunnels in Houston or Dallas or other systems up north to deal with the snow/cold in Minneapolis, Montreal, Toronto, and Chicago would be a huge boon for alternative transportation in Orlando. 

[codypet]

The last mile solution for Brightline is interesting.  I'm curious how that works out for them.  

My experience for Sunrail is that Lynx isn't timed at around the time of the trains very well.  The frequency and late night running are the two problems I see.  I feel like I'd visit Kissimmee downtown more if that was made more available.   Likewise Sanford if I knew the shuttle wasn't gonna leave me stranded at 8pm.

I really wish the old lightrail would have come to fruition.  CFX or FDOT is gonna have to come up with an EW light rail from UCF through downtown to Winter Garden IMO.

[blt23]

13 hours ago, CFL4Transit said:

Thank you for the excellent analysis! Totally agree with your perspective and opinions. SunRail for sure should run at least every 30 minutes. I would prefer to upgrade the rolling stock to at least DMUs in the short term and run every 15 minutes during peak hours just for Orange County, but there's probably not demand for that as yet, but TOD around SunRail stations instead of surface parking lots should definitely be a top priority.

We are also heavily advocating for safer streets for cyclists and pedestrians as part of the transportation spending. Orlando is regularly named the most dangerous city for cyclist and pedestrians. People are not going to want to ride the bus if they have a choice even with good service if simply walking to the stop puts your life at danger, especially on dangerous arterials like Colonial and Semoran.

We've have good conversations with LYNX planners and they understand these issues need to be addressed holistically to improve transit ridership, but they do not have the authority or capital budget to make the infrastructure upgrades necessary  for safety improvements. Since the most dangerous roads are state owned, a lot of it is on FDOT to improve safety around transit stops, which is a serious obstacle to any Complete Streets or Vision Zero policy by local governments.

Also agree about not splitting service between Local and Limited. In LA they have moved away from this system by eliminating many of their MetroRapid bus routes in favor of reducing stops and increasing services on the local routes. However, the devil is in the details, if Local stops were every 1/4 mile and Limited stop every 1/2 mile then most stops would get  still get frequent service. But we are also advocating to consolidate services into one frequent line instead of the split service proposed here

Our biggest concern would be without implementing bus lanes and other improvements to speed up slow service, bus bunching could occur making  the frequent corridor service less useful. Another concern is whether transfers will be timed. It seems an overall philosophy is using the local network to transport commuters to regional hubs for fast direct service, either on Sunrail on the Regional Express Network.  However, 30 minutes is not frequent enough to convince people to get out of their cars if the transfer from the local network to SunRail or the Express buses is not timed and you have to wait an additional 15-20 minutes or longer.  We want a system that is good enough to convince people to switch to transit from driving, and we are not convinced this plan will do it either. BTW they have already implemented some of the new express network with the new Disney Express link 300 and the reimagining of route 38 as an express to Universal, both of which offer direct system every 30 minutes 7 days a week, without having to deal with parking! These Express routes and ones implemented in the future will also used the I-4 toll lanes, which is another point in their favor.

The  details you mention for successful service is what we want to focus on implementing to improve bus service for all. One big thing we want to see is fare systems that allow contactless payments so you can just tap your card instead of needing cash or putting up with their unwieldy app. Our tag line is we want service that is "Fast, Frequent, and Flexible". We are speaking with policy makers delivering a presentation that lays out the details on how to achieve these goals through things you mentioned like stop spacing, bus lanes, level boarding, and better wayfaring.

The best part about the proposed bus reimagining in our opinion is that it optimizes the network to make it more direct and less circuitous, and adds new service along streets like  Lake Underhill and Goldenrod that are growing fast but currently lack  service along the entire corridors. While the plan definitely has its share of flaws and is need of seriously refining,  it would be such a massive upgrade over the current system, which is completely unreliable and dysfunctional.  It has one route that operates every 15 minutes beside the downtown LYMMOs, and only 2 routes that operate every 20 minutes. Half of all routes come every hour.  Lack of dedicated funding has prevented LYNX from effectively serving the region for decades. They have 300 buses for a service area of 2.1 million people. This is not acceptable.

Current riders have to either put with 2-3 hour one way commutes or buy a car even if they cannot afford the financial burden of car ownership because spending money on a car you cannot afford is better than being fired for being late due to LYNX being unreliable.
I'm lucky because I work from home,  but I used to put up with 2 hour 30 min commutes 1 way to UCF from Metrowest just to attend class. This plan would cut many current riders commute times in half. Any plan that effectively doubles service will be a blessing to long suffering LYNX riders. I think overall the plan has more good than bad, and we hope to help refine and improve it, because the status quo is untenable.

Regarding community engagement, the transportation tax going to be officially announced on 1/25/2022 at the Orange County BCC meeting, so that would be the first time for you or anyone else on this board to provide input to elected officials  , either by showing up for a public comment, or emailing. I think your comments should be heard by officials, even if you just copied your comment from this board in an email! Thanks again for your  insightful comments, we forward to continued engagement with you and other board members on this matter.

Here's a promotional image our groups are pushing to promote prioritizing transit rather than widening roads for the transportation funding.

In general, I feel that it's good to balance ambition with pragmatism. The current SunRail equipment is still young and good enough for 30-minute headways, so I'm be inclined to keep it for now and instead focus on making sure the next round of equipment isn't diesel. While a 30 minute frequency isn't super convenient, I see having it as a consistent all day frequency as being the point where someone can take SunRail to a medical appointment or a sporting event or dinner with friends without worrying about getting stranded there because there is no train home is coming anytime soon. Moving towards 15 minute service might also create more need for level boarding, which will be complicated and expensive to accomplish, if it's possible at all. In any case, electrification/modernization/transformation of SunRail should be a higher priority than the Orange Blossom Express line.*

I'm also cautious about demanding bus lanes, because while I would love to have them everywhere I understand that there are many places where physical and legal constraints will make them near impossible, and at some point it becomes better just move forward with a program of BRT-lite upgrades rather than arguing indefinitely about how dedicated bus lanes would be better. I think I've heard of BRT-lite projects creating significant travel time savings (20%?), but again that requires getting all the little details right. Unfortunately this report doesn't say much about how Lynx might publicly distinguish among the top levels of upgraded bus corridors, which could be a big miss if they don't have a flashy plan of upgrades to be promoted this year.

On the issue of split services, if there is demand for stops every 1/4 mile, then those stops should be available for every bus on the route. If there isn't much demand to justify high frequency bus service stopping at a certain location, then there just shouldn't be a stop there - but that's something that should be determined based on specific circumstances and neighborhood engagement. Another advantage of running the high frequency routes as 1 service on 10 minute frequency instead of 2 every 20 minutes is that timed connections with those routes aren't too much of an issue because they come frequently anyway. Beyond that, I absolutely agree that there should be timed connections between the local routes, express routes, and SunRail because otherwise the express routes won't be very useful. 

I also agree with your positions on fare collection and safe station access, and I hope the BCC can be convinced to increase the transit funding share enough for those issues to be fully addressed.

*To expand upon what my rail priorities would be if funding were increased, improvements to SunRail are definitely be at the top of the list. I'm really intrigued by the idea of having an automated light metro that runs Lake Nona - airport - sand lake sunrail - florida mall - OCCC - along I-drive or universal blvd - universal parking garages because it would have a ton of jobs and tourist attractions along it and offer good connections to every major north/south bus corridor in the southern portion of the county (I-drive, Kirkman, 441/OBT, Orange Ave, 436/Semoran), but it would also cost a ton. After that is Orange Blossom Express with as much all day frequency as possible. Of course it would be great to have an east/west rail line in the Colonial corridor as well, but getting right of way for that near downtown is going to be really painful and most of the corridor is car oriented rather than being a nice string of places to connect, so it's further down my personal priority list. 

Edited January 14, 2022 by blt23

[Jernigan]

I like the Hardees mindset on this one.   Remember when all the fast food places started doing salads?   Hardees doubled down with twice the heart attack.  They knew their people and they knew who were NOT. THEIR. PEOPLE.

McDs aint selling salads anymore, by the way.

Volusia and Lake residents made their beds and they have no problem sleeping in them.  Those beds are in McMansions on cul-se-sacs in auto dependent neighborhoods.   Its not a bad life and commuter rail takes a lot of cumulative VMT off the road during PEAK HOUR congestion.  Thats the value.  Idling cars, sunshine, smog, ozone,   Running trains all night not only doesnt make a ton of sense outside of transit bragging rights, but with no congestion on our roads, we have no idling cars and the train, if used, is only subsidizing those housing choices with no benefit to the community.

You cant quote “High price of free parking” while overlooking running subsidized rail without community benefit. 

[klstorey]

I think I may be going crazy. I swear there was some mention of Greyhound moving to Garland Ave after the I-4 Ultimate construction is wrapped up. The site is owned by FDOT and the plan was to lease it to Greyhound with an expansion of the Lynx Central Station also on the site.  I recall the talks occuring prior to the construction project began so 2013-2014ish. Now I can't find anything about it. Do any of you recall these plans? Any word on if its still in the works? If not, any idea what will happen with that site after the construction wraps up? I'd love to see a larger bus station with stalls for Greyhound, Megabus, and others. A tower could easily be built over the bus station as well, hopefully with some retail (this area severally lacks any good grab-and-go style food options, esp. after 7PM or so). 

 

[spenser1058]

15 minutes ago, klstorey said:

I think I may be going crazy. I swear there was some mention of Greyhound moving to Garland Ave after the I-4 Ultimate construction is wrapped up. The site is owned by FDOT and the plan was to lease it to Greyhound with an expansion of the Lynx Central Station also on the site.  I recall the talks occuring prior to the construction project began so 2013-2014ish. Now I can't find anything about it. Do any of you recall these plans? Any word on if its still in the works? If not, any idea what will happen with that site after the construction wraps up? I'd love to see a larger bus station with stalls for Greyhound, Megabus, and others. A tower could easily be built over the bus station as well, hopefully with some retail (this area severally lacks any good grab-and-go style food options, esp. after 7PM or so). 

 

Greyhound indeed planned to move back downtown but those plans got waylaid (they have really cut back on stations - Daytona lost their long time station last year). Whether it will come back, I don’t know.

The Megabus model suggests that, unless Lynx, FDOT or someone else is paying for it, we shouldn’t count on them , either.

 

[dcluley98]

Whoops, wrong thread.  Haha. 

Edited January 24, 2022 by dcluley98

[blt23]

Orange County recently posted a 1000+ page report on their transportation initiative webpage (http://www.ocfl.net/TrafficTransportation/TransportationInitiative.aspx) describing the unfunded transportation "needs" that could be covered by the proposed sales tax. 

Based on a quick look I'm not particularly impressed because it feels incredibly car-centric, is very noncommittal about what any given project includes, and has approximately nothing dedicated to protected cycling infrastructure.

[codypet]

On 1/24/2022 at 10:15 AM, klstorey said:

I think I may be going crazy. I swear there was some mention of Greyhound moving to Garland Ave after the I-4 Ultimate construction is wrapped up. The site is owned by FDOT and the plan was to lease it to Greyhound with an expansion of the Lynx Central Station also on the site.  I recall the talks occuring prior to the construction project began so 2013-2014ish. Now I can't find anything about it. Do any of you recall these plans? Any word on if its still in the works? If not, any idea what will happen with that site after the construction wraps up? I'd love to see a larger bus station with stalls for Greyhound, Megabus, and others. A tower could easily be built over the bus station as well, hopefully with some retail (this area severally lacks any good grab-and-go style food options, esp. after 7PM or so). 

 

I had mentioned in passing that it would be a good idea to use that lot and make Concord a passthrough for the busses.  As far as I know there was no real plan to do that.

[Uncommon]

https://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/transportation/os-ne-brightline-sunrail-demings-action-call-20220405-x2curfy4gjdstagrzvd5fbp7mu-story.html

Brightline’s quest for passenger rail from Orlando’s airport to Disney World and Tampa is evolving toward a regional push to build a corridor for SunRail commuter trains from the airport to SunRail’s current north-south tracks, the Orange County Convention Center and south International Drive.

“I’m calling this the ‘jobs train,’” said Orlando Mayor Buddy Dyer, who hosted dozens of private meetings in recent months between Universal Studios, Brightline and others to resolve what had been a deadlock over the route from the airport across southwest Orange County.

Under a vision emerging from those meetings, Brightline would lease rights to use that east-west SunRail corridor and would build its own tracks from Disney to Tampa.

Expecting to cover construction costs through private financing, Brightline had contended that the most affordable route by far would be from the airport along State Road 417 to Disney. Universal Studios and I-Drive merchants mounted fierce opposition to that proposed corridor, insisting the route should also serve I-Drive and the convention center.

Dyer said that the passage last year of the Infrastructure Investment and Jobs Act quickly changed the conversation, allowing participants to see a funding scenario that supported the route to I-Drive and the convention center.

Dyer said also that a link for SunRail from its current north-south track to the airport would be the beginning of the commuter train’s larger east-west spine. Connecting to the airport would obligate SunRail to expand service to run more often, later into the night and on weekends, he said.

SunRail’s service spans 49 miles and 16 stations in Volusia, Seminole, Orange and Osceola counties.

A meeting in Washington, D.C., on March 30, was attended by the county, Orlando, Universal, Brightline and others.

“I would like to briefly summarize my understanding of the proposed project,” Orange County Mayor Jerry Demings said in letter sent Monday to Disney, Universal, local government officials and the Florida Department of Transportation.

“I am sharing this information with you because it is my desire to see our community work together to advance a transportation infrastructure grant application that is not only competitive, but one in which we can all support,” Demings said, concluding that “time is of the essence.”

U.S. Rep. Darren Soto, D-Kissimmee said he has briefed many of the stakeholders who are seeking a rail route in southwest Orange County.

“They know what I know, that a decision must be made by summertime, Soto said. “Those first announcements for rail and for highways are going to be big ones, the biggest in the nation. We want to make sure there is consensus locally because it’s so competitive. If we don’t have consensus it’s going to be very difficult.”

Brightline is in the final months of construction of a rail extension from South Florida to Orlando International Airport, with service scheduled to start next year.

“This is the type of big vision project that Central Florida needs and one that will improve the quality of life for Central Floridians while ensuring an economic advantage for decades,” said Christine Kefauver, senior vice president of corporate affairs for Brightline Trains in a statement.

“Building momentum for a project of regional significance requires strong leadership and the backing of the entire community and we’re seeing that coming together in Central Florida,” Kefauver said.

Demings said discussions have wrapped around a vision called the “Sunshine Corridor Program.”

The corridor program calls for a track route heading west from the airport to a new transfer station along SunRail’s tracks.

The route would then follow a short segment of SunRail tracks and then veer to an alignment along Taft Vineland Road and State Road 528 to arrive at the convention center.

From there, the route would follow Interstate 4 to south International Drive.

Demings said the next steps include digging into and locking down the path for funding applications, confirming a route and stations and inviting the state Transportation Department and Walt Disney World to an upcoming meeting.

The International Drive Resort Area Chamber of Commerce launched a campaign in October called “Orlando Right Rail” to urge a rail route to I-Drive.

Maria Triscari, the chamber’s president and chief executive officer, said her group is very supportive of the Sunshine Corridor Program.

“This is a very important initiative that will provide infrastructure for mass transit, Sunrail and Brightline from OIA to I-Drive,” Triscari said. “The southwest region is a major economic engine with over 75,000 employees and 20,000 residents.”

The Sunshine Corridor Program calls for a SunRail schedule of a train every 15 minutes between the airport and south I-Drive.

Brightline’s schedule, previously disclosed, would run a train in both directions every hour between the airport and Tampa from 6 a.m. to 11 p.m

[shardoon]

This whole thing is a pipe dream. Way too many competing heads. Honestly, they complicated the hell out of it. Due to this, nothing will get built including brightlines disney and Tampa route. I am sorry to say, but the only way this thing was being built was if it was simple and went the 417 way. In typical Orlando fashion, it will go down in flames because of all the competing local special interests. 

[HankStrong]

1 hour ago, shardoon said:

This whole thing is a pipe dream. Way too many competing heads. Honestly, they complicated the hell out of it. Due to this, nothing will get built including brightlines disney and Tampa route. I am sorry to say, but the only way this thing was being built was if it was simple and went the 417 way. In typical Orlando fashion, it will go down in flames because of all the competing local special interests. 

I agree.

[dcluley98]

3 hours ago, Uncommon said:

Demings said discussions have wrapped around a vision called the “Sunshine Corridor Program.”

The corridor program calls for a track route heading west from the airport to a new transfer station along SunRail’s tracks.

I seem to recall saying that there would be cross-platform transfer station to connect to the North South line of SunRail. . . sounds like they are planning an entirely new station with this plan instead of locating it at Meadow Woods. 

I would love for this plan to happen. 

[cubanbread]

There's more reason to believe that it will be built than it won't. 
The fact that people are competing to have it come near them, to me, is a good sign.

So far, Brightline line has done pretty much everything they said they would. 
They got a line running through South Florida, they're building the line to Orlando, they're expanding service in South Florida, and they've completed negotiations to build down I-4 to Tampa. 

In Tampa they're already working with a developer named Daryl Shaw to build a station in Ybor.

Granted, we're still several years away from seeing the connection to Tampa and a lot can happen but if we zoom out and look at plans for HSR in Florida over the last several decades...the fact something is now under construction should give anyone hope. 
 

[jrs2]

8 hours ago, dcluley98 said:

I seem to recall saying that there would be cross-platform transfer station to connect to the North South line of SunRail. . . sounds like they are planning an entirely new station with this plan instead of locating it at Meadow Woods. 

I would love for this plan to happen. 

 

I don't think that's the route; from the OCCC, it would follow the I-4 corridor to I-Drive South.  I-Drive South is what I-Drive is called where Xentury City (Gaylord Palms) is.  That's why they're talking with WDW, b/c it would come very close to WDW property.

Fascinating...and they would lease ROW to Brightline... Even more so b/c the state pays for the easement and BL doesn't have to pay it, rather, only the lease of it's use.   And BL still would have a WDW station (I presume).

Thanks, Universal!

[dcluley98]

You could be right. I read it as SunRail EW would go to I-Drive area where most other things are concentrated around Universal and Icon, etc, and Brightline would go south to a Disney Springs/Disney station. 

I also read an article that said the plan was to expand the Pine Castle Station (which is north of Sand Lake), and the route from there west would be in the median of the 528.  So I don't think they have a concrete plan yet. They are just putting ideas together and would have to do studies and planning and get funding. 

Edited April 7, 2022 by dcluley98

[shardoon]

I stand by my statement. This thing is officially torpedoed and doomed. Ain't happening. This thing is not economical unless Disney has a ridership agreement. That is the only thing that was going to make Brightline go to Tampa, because outside of Disney, the Tampa route is a waste of money because nobody will ride it.  The I-Drive route is great, but without Disney support, Brightline will not be a part of that. Therefore, the only hope for an I-Drive route that will end in I-Drive and not go to Disney or anywhere else is Sunrail with Federal Funds......but not enough funds without a private investment from Brightline.  

Basically, this whole thing revolves around Disney. As of now, Disney is bursting at the seems without even the Magical Express running. There is ZERO incentive to support a Brightline station if Universal benefits at all. 

[dcluley98]

I mean, I understand your point. But if they can get their act together and get federal funding to build it over and above what Disney/Brightline had planned, why not build it?  

Operation and maintenance will be a bigger issue, but that is for the entities to figure out later. 

 

[jrs2]

54 minutes ago, shardoon said:

I stand by my statement. This thing is officially torpedoed and doomed. Ain't happening. This thing is not economical unless Disney has a ridership agreement. That is the only thing that was going to make Brightline go to Tampa, because outside of Disney, the Tampa route is a waste of money because nobody will ride it.  The I-Drive route is great, but without Disney support, Brightline will not be a part of that. Therefore, the only hope for an I-Drive route that will end in I-Drive and not go to Disney or anywhere else is Sunrail with Federal Funds......but not enough funds without a private investment from Brightline.  

Basically, this whole thing revolves around Disney. As of now, Disney is bursting at the seems without even the Magical Express running. There is ZERO incentive to support a Brightline station if Universal benefits at all. 

Disney may go for it anyway.  Sunrail won't go to Disney ala the EW line, rather, only to I-Drive probably a little south of Sea World I guess; only BL would go there.  If the State/Fed approve the EW Sunrail line/easement, that means BL is going to use it. 

But as you say, Disney may be like, screw you, BL, no Disney station and the Tampa leg is a dog and you won't build it w/o the DIsney station, so, as we see it, Universal doesn't benefit either and you just end at OIA.

Ah, but if BL builds a station or uses a station other wise built at OCCC (for Sunrail et al), Disney would have ALOT to lose b/c now Universal has the drop on them.  That is the key...a station at OCCC that BL can use.  That is the carrot or incentive to keep WDW from telling everyone to, as Air Marshall Carlin stated so eloquently...to "go f**k themselves".

17 minutes ago, dcluley98 said:

I mean, I understand your point. But if they can get their act together and get federal funding to build it over and above what Disney/Brightline had planned, why not build it?  

Operation and maintenance will be a bigger issue, but that is for the entities to figure out later. 

 

see my comment to shardoon.   I think this is the key.  see?  UF education at work!

[IAmFloridaBorn]

What? I don't know because it's not my expertise is. Is it more reasonable to build a SunRail extension like commuter rail that way or is it easier to build a mode of transportation that is ground separated? And I know you can ground separate any kind of tracks and put any kind of train of them. But I'm wondering if down here in Orlando is one way of doing it cheaper than the other? I like the system Miami has and also like what the streetcar has in Tampa. Maybe some kind of hybrid of them both would do well as an extension. Because the Orange County government is also going to be proposing a half penny sales tax, which even with out that this line seems to be moving forward with an agreement between the two. 

 

I know somewhere a few weeks back it was mentioned that somebody has to take over sunreal in brightline was one of the proposed people. Although I don't know how much legitimacy that has, but would this now make that even more of a thing potentially where Bright line could have their statewide system as well as a local system?

 

Not no Polk County within the next 10 years wants SunRail to go to Lakeland so this could be the start of something regardless

[shardoon]

I have a compromise that Disney may like....... but do not know if Universal would like it.  Have Brightline share the tracks as proposed.......... however, Brightline only has a station in Disney and eventually Tampa. I-Drive/Universal only served by Sunrail. 

Edited April 7, 2022 by shardoon

[dcluley98]

19 minutes ago, shardoon said:

I have a compromise that Disney may like....... but do not know if Universal would like it.  Have Brightline share the tracks as proposed.......... however, Brightline only has a station in Disney and eventually Orlando. I-Drive/Universal only served by Sunrail. 

That is what I thought they were talking about, but trying to use a carrot of Federal funding to make the more expensive route viable and play the other side of Disney's "I will take my ball and go home" tactics.  It's a giant prisoner's dilemma game.  

[Urban Mail Carrier]

That’s exactly what I understood from the article!!! 

[cubanbread]

3 hours ago, shardoon said:

Tampa route is a waste of money because nobody will ride it.

The data doesn't really support that. 
Ridership forecasts predict the Tampa to Orlando route would  take up about 11% of the travel market between Tampa and Orlando (it's currently 99% car right now)  and 15% of the market between Tampa and Miami (also in the high 90% range for cars right now)
Both Tampa to Orlando and Tampa to Miami fall into the sweet spot where taking rail competes with or is an outright better option than driving or flying.  That option becomes even better when you factor in how much worse i-4 is going to get in the coming years.

I don't know if a Disney route or a Universal route is a better option, either way people from Tampa Bay will be connected the parks. Additionally, MCO will be a draw for a lot of riders. Tampa has one of the best airports in the country but we only have 1 direct to Central America and 2 direct to Europe. A direct shot to MCO opens up a lot of travel options.

On the flip side,  Brightline will be stationed in Ybor in the middle of the Gasworx project, connected via street car to Water Street,  and Tampa Heights...not to mention the CBD....(If you're unfamiliar with Water Street, Gasworx, and Tampa Heights I would suggest looking these developments up.)

Additionally, Tampa's stop is a short streetcar ride to the Tampa Bay Convention Center,  Port Tampa Bay, and Crossbay Ferry to St. Pete so there are a lot of reasons residents from each city would ride.  

Not in the works but some things I wouldn't be surprised to be announced eventually would be a stop at the Casino/ Fairgrounds in Tampa since it's right on I-4 and an eventual extension to St.  Pete.
That last one might seem like a pipe dream but the current Howard Frankland bridge expansion is being built with space to accommodate rail and the 275 median has more than enough space to accommodate rail as well.  Considering St. Pete might be one of the hottest markets in the state, you would understand why Brightline would want to get there.

The thing people need to take into consideration when talking about Brightline is that they're not just a train service, they're looking to make their money the transit oriented development around their stops.  Orlando doesn't really give them that opportunity but expanding to Tampa Bay does.  

Just a thought. 


 

[jliv]

5 hours ago, shardoon said:

I stand by my statement. This thing is officially torpedoed and doomed. Ain't happening. This thing is not economical unless Disney has a ridership agreement. That is the only thing that was going to make Brightline go to Tampa, because outside of Disney, the Tampa route is a waste of money because nobody will ride it.  The I-Drive route is great, but without Disney support, Brightline will not be a part of that. Therefore, the only hope for an I-Drive route that will end in I-Drive and not go to Disney or anywhere else is Sunrail with Federal Funds......but not enough funds without a private investment from Brightline.  

Basically, this whole thing revolves around Disney. As of now, Disney is bursting at the seems without even the Magical Express running. There is ZERO incentive to support a Brightline station if Universal benefits at all. 

So....when they widened I-4 years ago through the Disney area, they left an envelope in the median strip near Celebration to accommodate a station, and the 2010 HSR plan had a station in that median.  Disney does not need to participate, as long as there are last mile options like Brightline+ for travellers to get to their hotels in Lake Buena Vista from a median-located station.  I'd be interested in seeing if those train station plans are dusted off much like they were for the Airport Intermodal Terminal.

 

Edited April 7, 2022 by jliv