Orlando Transit

[HankStrong]

I had a conversation with a retired railroad guy who said he recently saw some ideas about extending the Tampa line to somewhere in the range of Naples.  I know that there would be tons of environmental concerns, but a circular route back to Miami from Naples would be insane.

The original concept art for BL showed routes to Jax, Atlanta, and Charleston.  That's definitely a pipe dream, but a nice one.

[codypet]

1 hour ago, HankStrong said:

I had a conversation with a retired railroad guy who said he recently saw some ideas about extending the Tampa line to somewhere in the range of Naples.  I know that there would be tons of environmental concerns, but a circular route back to Miami from Naples would be insane.

The original concept art for BL showed routes to Jax, Atlanta, and Charleston.  That's definitely a pipe dream, but a nice one.

I had worked on track improvements to bring HSR between Raleigh and Charlotte, and I know there were plans to improve Charlotte to Atlanta.

[orlandocity87]

My two wish list items:

1) Whatever the SunRail to Airport connection, there better not be a transfer. I hope they're considering multiple lines on the same tracks, e.g. one from DeBary to Poinciana and one from DeBary to the Airport (similar to Miami's MetroRail split). I could even see I-Drive to Airport and I-Drive to Downtown lines. 

2) We need to get a plan in place if we want a chance at hosting the 2026 FIFA World Cup with or instead of Miami. Qatar is spending $2.7B on transit for this year's World Cup, Athens greatly expanded it's metro for the 2004 Olympics, etc. There's no reason two of the country's most-visited cities can't do the same. (I'm also looking at you, Miami - Miami Beach connector.) 

[Urban Mail Carrier]

Creating a comprehensive transit system would be checkmate in having the 2026 World Cup awarded to Orlando.

[popsiclebrandon]

Miami is basically a lock for WC26. We're more competing with the KC/Cincy types cities.

[prahaboheme]

I'd be most excited to see how a transit station at OCCC evolves into an I-Drive / Universal transit system.

[jliv]

20 minutes ago, prahaboheme said:

I'd be most excited to see how a transit station at OCCC evolves into an I-Drive / Universal transit system.

This was the 2010 rendering...I'd expect something more akin to MiamiCentral, as more of a destination station with shops and hotels attached.   If Universal is offering to build the station, I'd expect it to be more substantial than this...

 

Edited April 8, 2022 by jliv

[dcluley98]

3 hours ago, popsiclebrandon said:

Miami is basically a lock for WC26. We're more competing with the KC/Cincy types cities.

Quite frankly, Brightline main line itself is already a huge boost for WC.  The committee is probably happy to get another city connected to Miami by passenger rail to Miami, who as you said is already a lock.  Orlando has had great fan turnout for USMNT games as well, so I think we are probably almost a lock as well.  

[prahaboheme]

Orlando’s biggest issue hosting WC is that Camping World is not on par with other potential host cities that have modern stadiums.

[dcluley98]

That is true. They will also have to put a real grass field in, I believe. (Probably temporary, but who knows). 

[jrs2]

On 4/7/2022 at 12:14 PM, shardoon said:

I have a compromise that Disney may like....... but do not know if Universal would like it.  Have Brightline share the tracks as proposed.......... however, Brightline only has a station in Disney and eventually Tampa. I-Drive/Universal only served by Sunrail. 

I think conceptually Disney may demand this, but not necessarily versus Universal.  See my response to the new poster from Tampa.

On 4/7/2022 at 3:10 PM, cubanbread said:

The data doesn't really support that. 
Ridership forecasts predict the Tampa to Orlando route would  take up about 11% of the travel market between Tampa and Orlando (it's currently 99% car right now)  and 15% of the market between Tampa and Miami (also in the high 90% range for cars right now)
Both Tampa to Orlando and Tampa to Miami fall into the sweet spot where taking rail competes with or is an outright better option than driving or flying.  That option becomes even better when you factor in how much worse i-4 is going to get in the coming years.

I don't know if a Disney route or a Universal route is a better option, either way people from Tampa Bay will be connected the parks. Additionally, MCO will be a draw for a lot of riders. Tampa has one of the best airports in the country but we only have 1 direct to Central America and 2 direct to Europe. A direct shot to MCO opens up a lot of travel options.

On the flip side,  Brightline will be stationed in Ybor in the middle of the Gasworx project, connected via street car to Water Street,  and Tampa Heights...not to mention the CBD....(If you're unfamiliar with Water Street, Gasworx, and Tampa Heights I would suggest looking these developments up.)

Additionally, Tampa's stop is a short streetcar ride to the Tampa Bay Convention Center,  Port Tampa Bay, and Crossbay Ferry to St. Pete so there are a lot of reasons residents from each city would ride.  

Not in the works but some things I wouldn't be surprised to be announced eventually would be a stop at the Casino/ Fairgrounds in Tampa since it's right on I-4 and an eventual extension to St.  Pete.
That last one might seem like a pipe dream but the current Howard Frankland bridge expansion is being built with space to accommodate rail and the 275 median has more than enough space to accommodate rail as well.  Considering St. Pete might be one of the hottest markets in the state, you would understand why Brightline would want to get there.

The thing people need to take into consideration when talking about Brightline is that they're not just a train service, they're looking to make their money the transit oriented development around their stops.  Orlando doesn't really give them that opportunity but expanding to Tampa Bay does.  

Just a thought. 
 

I personally think a station at Hard Rock Casino would be brilliant for BL, but I also think Disney would negotiate somehow to have the right to veto it based on their track record to date in CFLA...

[jrs2]

37 minutes ago, prahaboheme said:

Orlando’s biggest issue hosting WC is that Camping World is not on par with other potential host cities that have modern stadiums.

If it's played at CWS, then no way; Joe Robbie is way better and more advanced at present (Hard Rock Stadium).

But as for stuff to do for fans, Miami is Miami, and Orlando is Orlando ala tourism and the fact that BL will connect the fans to Miami (as it would connect Miami to Orlando).

Hard Rock Stadium is in the ghetto.  you need to use the direct TNPK access to avoid it.  So is CWS, but it is only 1 mile from downtown; Hard Rock Stadium is in Carrol City at the border with Broward...it's BFE-ish, unless 826 to Sunny Isles is your heroin. 

[dcluley98]

I mean, they are going to pick Miami as a World Cup city. . . That is a fact. 

 

The fact that we are connected to them by somewhat close proximity and HSR, and also a tourist destination and somewhat known around the world will help. 

Of course, they just see us as "Disney" but if WC gets people from Miami to DTO and gets people to see more here, do more here, and associate Orlando with Soccer, that's a really good thing for us. 

[Urban Mail Carrier]

Hard rock stadium might be better but Miami does not have the hotel capacity that Orlando has, nor a reliable transportation system.

[jgardnerucf]

And, practice fields. Every futbol team visiting uses beautiful The Omni grounds.     They can't be staying at the Comfort Suites in Tamarac using the Carol City High School dirt football field to practice.

[popsiclebrandon]

15 hours ago, prahaboheme said:

Orlando’s biggest issue hosting WC is that Camping World is not on par with other potential host cities that have modern stadiums.

The funny thing is these new stadiums in Vegas and LA somehow didn't take into account the size of a soccer field and have to build an entire elevated structure in order to host. Its so jank and stupid but obviously they will get to host anyhow.

[dcluley98]

I don't know about Vegas. 

LA will definitely be picked as a host city, but i don't know about the venue. Maybe a different venue than the specific built NFL stadium. 

[prahaboheme]

3 hours ago, dcluley98 said:

I don't know about Vegas. 

LA will definitely be picked as a host city, but i don't know about the venue. Maybe a different venue than the specific built NFL stadium. 

The Colosseum perhaps — a perfectly sized stadium that will be used again for the LA Olympic Games in a few years.

[dcluley98]

It would definitely be that.

What an old outdated stadium compared to the Citrus Bowl 

[Alleri459]

A conventional center station definitely opens up transit oriented development revenue opportunities Brightline has in South Florida. I think it will work. 

[prahaboheme]

14 hours ago, dcluley98 said:

It would definitely be that.

What an old outdated stadium compared to the Citrus Bowl 

I view the Coliseum as “old” like Fenway Park or Wrigley not necessarily outdated.

In fact, the continual utility of the Coliseum for USC and until last year, the NFL, has showered  it in millions of dollars of updates.

While I can understand why UCF wanted to build a stadium on its campus, I still believe the long term benefits of having stuck it out at the Citrus Bowl would have overshadowed the short term gains.

Edited April 10, 2022 by prahaboheme

[spenser1058]

26 minutes ago, prahaboheme said:

I view the Coliseum as “old” like Fenway Park or Wrigley not necessarily outdated.

In fact, the continual utility of the Coliseum for USC and until last year, the NFL, has showered  it in millions of dollars of updates.

Not to mention the history behind the thing. Two Olympics so far? Good heavens. And they’re not just relying on the history. NASCAR moved the 2022 Busch Clash there, and it did really well.

Edited April 10, 2022 by spenser1058

[spenser1058]

1 hour ago, prahaboheme said:

I view the Coliseum as “old” like Fenway Park or Wrigley not necessarily outdated.

In fact, the continual utility of the Coliseum for USC and until last year, the NFL, has showered  it in millions of dollars of updates.

While I can understand why UCF wanted to build a stadium on its campus, I still believe the long term benefits of having stuck it out at the Citrus Bowl would have overshadowed the short term gains.

Because South Florida’s doing so well at RayJay, right? I have to disagree with you on this one, @prahaboheme. I hated the move because going to campus was a pain for me, but most of the great things that have happened to UCF football in  the last decade have tied back to the Bounce House. We won’t even talk about how FCS and the city were treating UCF like a red-headed step child while they were there.

We’ll also note that if an OCS doesn’t matter someone should tell Miami because one of the big brouhahas recently has been how badly The U needs one.

In the story I posted from the TB Times about USF’s effort, they also noted that FAU’s OCS has made all the difference with them gaining the respect they’ve long desired there.

If I’m a storied program like USC or UCLA, it may not matter. But for us up-and-comers, it helps to demonstrate our seriousness. It’s probably not a coincidence that all four schools on the way to the Big XII have an OCS.
 

Edited April 10, 2022 by spenser1058

[dcluley98]

Sorry. 

"Nilbog is Goblin spelled backwards!" 

[aent]

4 hours ago, prahaboheme said:

I view the Coliseum as “old” like Fenway Park or Wrigley not necessarily outdated.

In fact, the continual utility of the Coliseum for USC and until last year, the NFL, has showered  it in millions of dollars of updates.

While I can understand why UCF wanted to build a stadium on its campus, I still believe the long term benefits of having stuck it out at the Citrus Bowl would have overshadowed the short term gains.

What sort of long term benefits? Its fairly well known from the data at this point if you want good attendance, you need the venue designed for the sport and attendees comfort. Thats why the MLS didn't want to use the Citrus Bowl either and build another stadium down the road. You can't have stadiums sized wrong for the attendance and with the wrong amenities. Having a stadium that UCF could only fill up half way removed any chances of induced demand, removed the experience of college style tailgating, etc, and there was literally no way to replicate it at the Citrus Bowl while keeping the other events that are hosted there. The stadiums gotta compete with modern high resolution TVs in the home with streaming, etc... being in a half full stadium you can buy a ticket to for $10 last second isn't gonna induce any sort of demand. People want an "exclusive party"