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This would be the complete game changer that downtown has been yearning for all these years.  So many services would follow - grocery stores, appliance stores, retail outlets, a City Target (urban model), etc.  Not to mention, shuttle service between the two campuses would easily funnel even more students into the downtown area on a consistent basis.  Faculty would exist downtown, as would residual activities such as seminars, show events (arts, readings, fairs) that currently do not have a home downtown.  

 

I hope the city does whatever it takes to lure UCF downtown. 

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OBJ Today: 

 

UCF’s big idea: Bring a new campus to downtown, with up to 15,000 students

 
 
Most of the article is behind the pay wall (I subscribe). The number itself comes from the mouth of UCF President John Hitt. 
 
This quote (from Fred Kittinger, UCF guy, DTO committee chairman): 
 
 
Is promising. Exciting thought.

 

 

Any mention of timelines in the article?

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They could fill creative village's footprint on their own. It would be nice to see it spread out though. I think ASU in Phoenix is pretty self

contained. Could be wrong. Took a quick walk around while out there for the Fiesta Bowl and school wasn't in session for them.

This could also prioritize plans for an express bus connecting downtown to east Orange County

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http://www.bizjournals.com/orlando/blog/2014/04/4-key-issues-emerge-during-project-dtos-first.html?page=all

 

' "(Old Florida CEO John) Burden said as Old Florida National Bank grew from 3,000 square feet of space to 50,000 square feet, it would have been cheaper to relocate to somewhere like Maitland. But the company decided to spend more money to stay in downtown.

 

“It gets me upset that Darden [Restaurants] is on John Young Parkway,” Burden said. “We’ve got to have more big companies downtown.” '

Peer pressure can definitely help. Interesting thoughts emanating from the first of the DTO committees to meet.

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I was pretty happy driving downtown yesterday and this afternoon. Dr. Phillips exterior getting finished. Saw the Lymmo expansion buses running. Drove by the site for the Ace Café. That will clean up an eyesore and maybe the powers that be might do something other than trailer park landscaping on the I-4 berms and Garland islands by Amelia.

 

But give Darden a bit of a break. Most of the time I drive past Darden's offices, and their large parking structure on my way to the OCCC or convention hotels. When they moved from their previous outskirts campus to this new one, Sunrail was a pipe dream. Could you imagine adding that many car trips into downtown? How happy would the employees be after their commute? Now with FH singing the praises, I wonder if the Rida development is a bit too conservative as to space usage right on a station.

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I was pretty happy driving downtown yesterday and this afternoon. Dr. Phillips exterior getting finished. Saw the Lymmo expansion buses running. Drove by the site for the Ace Café. That will clean up an eyesore and maybe the powers that be might do something other than trailer park landscaping on the I-4 berms and Garland islands by Amelia.

 

But give Darden a bit of a break. Most of the time I drive past Darden's offices, and their large parking structure on my way to the OCCC or convention hotels. When they moved from their previous outskirts campus to this new one, Sunrail was a pipe dream. Could you imagine adding that many car trips into downtown? How happy would the employees be after their commute? Now with FH singing the praises, I wonder if the Rida development is a bit too conservative as to space usage right on a station.

 

Well, for one thing, if that's a problem, it's one Darden created. When Glenda was doing her damndest to get light rail passed, Darden, one of our two Fortune 500 HQ's at the time, was nowhere to be seen. 

 

A side note on that: did you see the article last week about traffic problems on I-Drive caused by MegaCon? For those, you may thank Harris Rosen and John Morgan, who bent over backwards to kill light rail because: Harris - it would cause problems during construction,  and John, "We don't want the type of people it would bring down here."(John, of course, apparently forgot that "those people" make up the majority of the workers on I-Drive, including at his WonderWorks.)

 

The continued short-sightedness of the hospitality industry, while not surprising (see the stranglehold they have on Daytona, for example), is nonetheless disappointing from our local contingent. (Notable exception: Disney under Meg Crofton, although so far under George K., the ties between the Mouse and the rest of Orlando are loosening again. I'm hopeful that's because he has his hands full at the moment with MyMagic+ and, given his local roots, that will change once that project settles down.)

Edited by spenser1058
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John, "We don't want the type of people it would bring down here."(John, of course, apparently forgot that "those people" make up the majority of the workers on I-Drive, including at his WonderWorks.)

 

Wait what?  THAT's what's horrible about what he said?  'Don't forget John those horrible people work here - but yes they are horrible.. just don't forget you need them to clean your sh*t'  

 

BTW I'm certain that's not what you meant at all.   

Edited by brainpathology
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Maybe it would finally influence a full time light rail connection between downtown and East Orlando. 

It's such a dire need. Imagine the employers downtown having a light rail to 50,000 young employees.

Downtown Phoenix & ASU are connected by light rail. So should UCF and downtown Orlando.

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It's such a dire need. Imagine the employers downtown having a light rail to 50,000 young employees.

Downtown Phoenix & ASU are connected by light rail. So should UCF and downtown Orlando.

 

 

Maybe it would finally influence a full time light rail connection between downtown and East Orlando. 

 

Not just students, it also opens up potential ridership to hospital workers living on the east side. A well thought out east-west route can do wonders, since there are very few east-west alternatives as opposed to the many north-south options we have in the Orlando area. 

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Now that DPAC, the Citrus Bowl, Amway Center, and the new MLS are either complete or funded when will someone stand up for the Orlando Museum of Art? Seems like it's the stepchild of Orlando's cultural facilities. This year is it's 90th Anniversary making it one of the oldest Art Museums in the Southeast yet there seems to be no acknowledgement or awareness.

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http://www.bizjournals.com/orlando/blog/2014/04/4-key-issues-emerge-during-project-dtos-first.html?page=all

 

' "(Old Florida CEO John) Burden said as Old Florida National Bank grew from 3,000 square feet of space to 50,000 square feet, it would have been cheaper to relocate to somewhere like Maitland. But the company decided to spend more money to stay in downtown.

 

“It gets me upset that Darden [Restaurants] is on John Young Parkway,” Burden said. “We’ve got to have more big companies downtown.” '

Peer pressure can definitely help. Interesting thoughts emanating from the first of the DTO committees to meet.

 

This gets brought up a lot. A lot of people have jaded views of where major corporations camp out. Go to any city of comaprable size and you'll find the Dardens of the world parked out on large campuses in the suburbs. It's just a lot cheaper.

 

Downtowns in those cities usually are filled with office space for banks, government, attorneys, the occasional account, and smaller engineering type companies.

 

I know for a fact that the city pushed hard for Darden to move to downtown, but Darden never had that much interest.

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You have a point. Most CEO's choose office locations primarily based on proximity to executive housing. Currently, downtown has a shortage of executive housing and the retail to support a 1% lifestyle. Therefore a location with better amenities, lower commuting times, and high quality housing will win almost everytime. The notable exception being companies that choose central business districts as a way to

"Urbanize" their brand due to worker preference (i.e. Twitter in San Francisco). Finally, the cost of midrise suburban construction v. high rise urban construction cannot be underestimated even with tax incentives. All these factors most likely led to Darden remaining in the 'burbs. I strongly believe that if Tradition Towers had been constructed that would have had as much if not a larger impact on corporate relocation downtown than tax abatements.

Edited by mrh3
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I'm biased as a fan, but we do have two more high profile companies moving downtown - Orlando City Soccer Club just leased space in the GAI Bldg and the Magic have plans to move thier cooperate offices into the proposed complex across form the arena.  As much as I want to see jobs downtown, the reality is that only certain types of businesses crave or require that environment (government, finance, tech, legal, fashion, publishing/journalist, etc) - and for what it's worth, our regional versions of these businesses already do reside downtown (regardless of your feelings for the Sentinel and thier building).  The Darden's and Tupperware's of the country almost exclusively settle in suburban plots - many like to have "campuses" like the big Pharma companies in NJ.  What upsets me more about Darden is the lack of even a flagship restaurant downtown - I still can't beleive they couldn't keep the Ruth's Chris open. 

 

In a perfect world, these open tech spaces in the Church Street exchange lead to more, UCF brings a campus downtown (total game-changer), an perhaps at some point Orange County government reverses course and starts centralizing office space.  Meanwhile a continued focus on the arts and more hotel/conference space should drive more creative business in the area. 

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Darden wont be relocating downtown, ever.  Their relatively new multi-million dollar corporate headquarters at JYP is the Taj Mahal of the hospitality industry.

 

It would be a nice show of hometown stewardship for Darden to open up a "test kitchen" downtown (similar to the Legal Seafood test kitchen on the south Boston waterfront) and a small business incubator at the Exchange for restaurant entrepreneurship opportunities. 

 

Instead of criticisizing Darden, I hope this DTO committee recognizes the opportunity to bring Darden into the conversation.  No amount of "peer pressure" (does Darden have a peer?) is going to get Darden to suddenly pack its bags and head a few miles to the north.

Edited by prahaboheme
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I agree pretty much with what everyone here has said. Praha is entirely correct that Darden won't be coming downtown - that ship has sailed (although, given the various splits of the corporation either in the works or being proposed, there is still a window of opportunity - albeit small - for a, say, spunoff Red Lobster to do something if there were incentives).

 

It does, however, show the wisdom of the James Fallows series I linked to in the Coffee House a couple of weeks back.

 

(1) Darden CEO Clarence Otis really has no historic ties to the area, nor do (m)any of the decision-making folks at Darden. It shows why when there were 2 Fortune 500 companies in town, it was the other one (Hughes Supply) that built downtown. CEO David "Bumpy" Hughes was born and raised right here in town, and peer pressure did the trick when it came time for them to build a new corporate HQ. 

 

(2) Hometown Hero is correct that, all other things being equal, corporations will locate on price, or the values of the company and its employees. THAT is why Medical City is at Lake Nona - Burnham, just like the even bigger prize Scripps, in WPB, had no reason to want to be downtown. 

 

A side note: there have been a few posts lately based on columns by Sentinel flamethrowers Mike Thomas and Mike Bianchi that UCF got so pissed off by DPAC and FCS, respectively, that John Hitt took his marbles and went home. Those columns were written to get hits, with little regard for the facts. I'd like to clarify a couple of things on that, and also show how ties to the community make all the difference.

 

(1) It was always going to be a challenge to integrate UCF's arts requirements and DPAC's (it's why everyone at the time noted it would be groundbreaking - it doesn't happen much).

 

(2) FCS (FL Citrus Sports) has controlled the Citrus/Tangerine Bowl for decades and, having never been responsible for the $$$$ side of the facility (guess which of the 3 venues was expected to contribute almost nothing to its expansion?), and hence had no incentive whatever to bend over backward on UCF's behalf. Tensions, however, were never as bad as Bianchi would have you believe in his columns.

 

(3) It does an extreme disservice to the integrity of UCF President John Hitt to imply he was so petty as a result of such challenges that he just hopped on the East-West and went home to pout. He's a much better man than that.

 

What DID happen at the time, however, was that former WDW President Dick Nunis came to chair the UCF Board of Trustees. Dick is a Georgia boy by way of USC,who came to Florida for the opening of WDW and had no particular use for the local community. In fact, it took decades before Disney paid any attention at all to goings on in Orlando. Dick looked at UCF as he looked at WDW - a self-contained operation that really didn't need the community. That wasn't necessarily a bad thing at the time - the knock on UCF since the day it opened was that it was nothing more than a glorified community commuter college. Indeed, it's amazing just how much that has changed in the last decade.

 

DIck's gone now and, as alumni and others like Rick Walsh have come to power who have roots in the community (Rick Walsh and Fred Kittinger, for example, both worked for former Florida Senator George Stuart, as did I - the Stuarts, of course, have long been regarded as the local version of the Kennedys for their political efforts in town), UCF has its own strong identity now and, guess what? We're seeing a move to bolster downtown again with a larger presence by the university.

 

Just as Fallows pointed out and as someone mentioned about the move by Zappos to downtown Las Vegas because that's where the CEO wanted to go, it all gets back to people. So, I continue to believe that when the movers and shakers work with their peers to make a difference, it can happen. The pitch just has to be made by those with common interests. That's why it's more important than ever to invest in local startups with local people who will share those values when they grow.

 

One final thought: the fact that someone like Burden is banging the drum for downtown is huge - when people bemoan all the decisions placing things like OCCC and UCF in BFE, there was no one in power who even thought about an urban alternative. Today, as OC Tax Collector prepares to abandon downtown, there needs to be a huge effort by the local power structure to nip that in the bud. Scott Randolph has political aspirations and peer pressure needs to make it apparent that such a move would be unwise if he wants support in the future.

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Now that I think about it, the whole DTO concept is just another bureaucratic attempt to revitalize the CBD. Generally, the only ones that benefit from these types of studies are the consultants. Are Buddy & Co along with the folks on Rosalind truly that clueless about what's needed that they require a study? Downtown needs 3 things: 1). More Jobs 2). More Retail - this includes restaurants 3). Better Policing. Once these issues are addressed from the business owners perspective the area should blossom again. Entrepreneurs will always seek markets to exploit often before the condumer realizes that it even needs the particular product or service. That's my opinion.

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I agree pretty much with what everyone here has said. Praha is entirely correct that Darden won't be coming downtown - that ship has sailed (although, given the various splits of the corporation either in the works or being proposed, there is still a window of opportunity - albeit small - for a, say, spunoff Red Lobster to do something if there were incentives).

It does, however, show the wisdom of the James Fallows series I linked to in the Coffee House a couple of weeks back.

(1) Darden CEO Clarence Otis really has no historic ties to the area, nor do (m)any of the decision-making folks at Darden. It shows why when there were 2 Fortune 500 companies in town, it was the other one (Hughes Supply) that built downtown. CEO David "Bumpy" Hughes was born and raised right here in town, and peer pressure did the trick when it came time for them to build a new corporate HQ.

(2) Hometown Hero is correct that, all other things being equal, corporations will locate on price, or the values of the company and its employees. THAT is why Medical City is at Lake Nona - Burnham, just like the even bigger prize Scripps, in WPB, had no reason to want to be downtown.

A side note: there have been a few posts lately based on columns by Sentinel flamethrowers Mike Thomas and Mike Bianchi that UCF got so pissed off by DPAC and FCS, respectively, that John Hitt took his marbles and went home. Those columns were written to get hits, with little regard for the facts. I'd like to clarify a couple of things on that, and also show how ties to the community make all the difference.

(1) It was always going to be a challenge to integrate UCF's arts requirements and DPAC's (it's why everyone at the time noted it would be groundbreaking - it doesn't happen much).

(2) FCS (FL Citrus Sports) has controlled the Citrus/Tangerine Bowl for decades and, having never been responsible for the $$$$ side of the facility (guess which of the 3 venues was expected to contribute almost nothing to its expansion?), and hence had no incentive whatever to bend over backward on UCF's behalf. Tensions, however, were never as bad as Bianchi would have you believe in his columns.

(3) It does an extreme disservice to the integrity of UCF President John Hitt to imply he was so petty as a result of such challenges that he just hopped on the East-West and went home to pout. He's a much better man than that.

What DID happen at the time, however, was that former WDW President Dick Nunis came to chair the UCF Board of Trustees. Dick is a Georgia boy by way of USC,who came to Florida for the opening of WDW and had no particular use for the local community. In fact, it took decades before Disney paid any attention at all to goings on in Orlando. Dick looked at UCF as he looked at WDW - a self-contained operation that really didn't need the community. That wasn't necessarily a bad thing at the time - the knock on UCF since the day it opened was that it was nothing more than a glorified community commuter college. Indeed, it's amazing just how much that has changed in the last decade.

DIck's gone now and, as alumni and others like Rick Walsh have come to power who have roots in the community (Rick Walsh and Fred Kittinger, for example, both worked for former Florida Senator George Stuart, as did I - the Stuarts, of course, have long been regarded as the local version of the Kennedys for their political efforts in town), UCF has its own strong identity now and, guess what? We're seeing a move to bolster downtown again with a larger presence by the university.

Just as Fallows pointed out and as someone mentioned about the move by Zappos to downtown Las Vegas because that's where the CEO wanted to go, it all gets back to people. So, I continue to believe that when the movers and shakers work with their peers to make a difference, it can happen. The pitch just has to be made by those with common interests. That's why it's more important than ever to invest in local startups with local people who will share those values when they grow.

One final thought: the fact that someone like Burden is banging the drum for downtown is huge - when people bemoan all the decisions placing things like OCCC and UCF in BFE, there was no one in power who even thought about an urban alternative. Today, as OC Tax Collector prepares to abandon downtown, there needs to be a huge effort by the local power structure to nip that in the bud. Scott Randolph has political aspirations and peer pressure needs to make it apparent that such a move would be unwise if he wants support in the future.

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