Downtown Orlando Project Discussion

[AndyPok1]

Let's recall that if the hotel has bought the land originally there's a decent chance we would have ended up with an ugly porte coche there.  I'm okay with the development.

[JFW657]

I don't think a small porte cochere would have been so terrible, as long as the lobby portion of the building it was connected to was decent looking.

And you never know... that might still be what ends up there.

[jack]

12 hours ago, smileguy said:

It's about 40% of the size of the lot that Ustler just built on up the block at 800 N Orange. That does have some surface parking, but a building of similar size might be possible here if it could share parking with the hotel. 

Ustler is a smart man. I wouldn't be surprised if he considered this coming available when building the hotel. It may be sooner than expected, but I bet he has a plan.

And that is why you cannot build anything reasonable on it. The floor sizes will be too small. 

[nite owℓ]

11 hours ago, JFW657 said:

I hope Mama B's takes a bath on the deal.

I hope they end up getting half of what they were originally offered at best.

 

That's a little harsh. Are property owners supposed to jump at every offer that comes to their door now?

I think Mama B's is a different story when compared to similar situations like the Lust Cash Transactor saga over at Mills Park. According to the owner, Ustler's group didn't even try to negotiate, they just made an initial offer and never bothered to follow up with a counter offer. I even think the Parramore church was justified in resisting considering how much the city bent over backwards to accommodate FUMCO, rerouted South St and was quoted to have spent more money on that property per sq ft than property sold in Manhattan at the time. So Mama B's, Lust Cash Transactor, Parramore church = greedy, but FUMCO = totally justified in raping the city in the name of the lord. Got it.

The only lesson I've taken away from each situation is to lawyer up from the initial point of contact so that you come out on top.

[JFW657]

1 hour ago, nite owℓ said:

That's a little harsh. Are property owners supposed to jump at every offer that comes to their door now?

I think Mama B's is a different story when compared to similar situations like the Lust Cash Transactor saga over at Mills Park. According to the owner, Ustler's group didn't even try to negotiate, they just made an initial offer and never bothered to follow up with a counter offer. I even think the Parramore church was justified in resisting considering how much the city bent over backwards to accommodate FUMCO, rerouted South St and was quoted to have spent more money on that property per sq ft than property sold in Manhattan at the time. So Mama B's, Lust Cash Transactor, Parramore church = greedy, but FUMCO = totally justified in raping the city in the name of the lord. Got it.

The only lesson I've taken away from each situation is to lawyer up from the initial point of contact so that you come out on top.

I'm not the least bit interested in the justness or fairness of my feelings on the matter.

I'm miffed at them for messing up the appearance of that corner so now I want them to pay.

Simple as that.

It is what it is.

[prahaboheme]

7 minutes ago, JFW657 said:

I'm not the least bit interested in the justness or fairness of my feelings on the matter.

I'm miffed at them for messing up the appearance of that corner so now I want them to pay.

Simple as that.

It is what it is.

I may see the point in this argument if Ustler was developing projects with the same inspiration as his earlier works like Thornton Park Central. The Courtyard is hardly groundbreaking -- it's not even of the caliber of other recent Uptown projects.

[JFW657]

Still woulda looked better if he'd had the whole parcel and built out to the corner.

Now we've got something that looks unfinished with a drab old building sitting there like a sore thumb.

 

[AndyPok1]

Am I the only one that doesn't mind the Mama B's building?  We don't have history in Orlando, but it gives it a bit of a unique look.  I'm more bothered by the Steelhouse setback if we're discussing that corner.

[jgardnerucf]

Steelhouse setback is for 50 ROW for I4U.

The Mama B's building sucks. And the gyro and tattoo parlor suck too. You've got to be kidding me.

[AndyPok1]

13 minutes ago, jgardnerucf said:

Steelhouse setback is for 50 ROW for I4U.

Ah, that makes sense then.

Agreed that Gyro and Tattoo suck, but I think having the one little ma (literally) and pop shop being overlooked by by the mid-rises is a nice touch.

[JFW657]

_{Mama B's would look OK with a different color scheme and some landscaping.}

Maybe a porte cochere... 

 

[orlandouprise]

2 hours ago, prahaboheme said:

I may see the point in this argument if Ustler was developing projects with the same inspiration as his earlier works like Thornton Park Central. The Courtyard is hardly groundbreaking -- it's not even of the caliber of other recent Uptown projects.

Agreed! That Residence Inn Building plain sucks. Cheap boring building with an even worse color scheme...hate it! I really hope he doesnt build the same style, quality at Creative Village. The only reason TP Central is decent is because of Phil Rampy. Ustler just cares about the profit now like every other greedy developer. They have no regard or care of what they leave behind as long as they made a buck or two...

[metal93]

If the Mama B's was originally built up to the street with a nice opening in the corner and the parking in back, I think a case could *maybe* be made for saving and reusing it. I'm all for historic preservation, but I have difficulty justifying saving single-story concrete block buildings, especially if it is bland suburban strip mall-type building with a parking lot setback. The Mama B's fits all these criteria. Now the gyro and tattoo place on the other corner is a bit more redeemable, but this one too can hardly be justified being saved from the wrecking ball, similar situation for the vaguely art deco building on the northeast corner of the intersection in front of the sevens, but that one is the most redeemable of the three corners and can stay.

Age alone as an argument for preservation doesn't cut it for me. Usually other factors come into play such as historical/cultural significance, architectural detail, materials, location, and usage.

[AndyPok1]

Completely agreed.  Old is not a good reason for keeping.  I just think it has a decently kitschy look being towered over.  Once Colonial expands so that Steelhouse is at the streetwall and the other two corners are redeveloped, that look will go away.  But until that happens, I have no issue.

[JFW657]

Channel 9 did a feature story on the impending sale of Mama B's yesterday afternoon.

According to owner Harriet Adamick, the potential purchaser would be buying the properties for $1.2 million each as an investment.

Quote: "The question on many residents’ minds is what would replace Mama B’s?

“I really don't know. I think they're mainly going to be buying it for investments. I'm not sure,” said Adamick.

Adamick said her family has received a proposal to buy both properties as an investment.

It's unknown if the store will stay open, but Adamick expects the sale to happen before the end of the year."

Link to story w/video: Orlando original 'Mama B's' sub shop might soon close its doors

 

[sunshine]

they r going to expand colonial? what a horrible idea...

[jack]

11 hours ago, orlandouprise said:

Agreed! That Residence Inn Building plain sucks. Cheap boring building with an even worse color scheme...hate it! I really hope he doesnt build the same style, quality at Creative Village. The only reason TP Central is decent is because of Phil Rampy. Ustler just cares about the profit now like every other greedy developer. They have no regard or care of what they leave behind as long as they made a buck or two...

The hotel looks like a Residence Inn. It has nothing to do with greed. 

[alex]

The Ivy turned out pretty great and is an Ustler property. I wouldn't mind seeing a couple more of these in the areas surrounding the CBD or as CV's residential component. 

In terms of Mama B's, I just don't see any redeeming qualities. If you didn't know what it was, you'd think it was a seedy strip club. Meanwhile, the art deco building is of some architectural value and has a great little retail business in it, which the area needs, as well as a cool mural. 

On the note of FUMCO striking a deal with the city: It was the only lot that was really needed (for the Dr. Phillips Center). The MLS stadium was able to move over and avoid the church's lot, Ustler built around Mama B's, and Mills Park was put on hold long enough for Lust Cash Transactors to become vacant. 

[FLheat]

On ‎8‎/‎29‎/‎2016 at 2:56 PM, jack said:

.2 acres in a challenging location. Ustler may be  the only logical buyer. 

About the size of Bumby Hardware building front part.  Looks like the Residence Inn parking garage is adjacent to the corner of this lot, I wonder if they can add additional parking decks to the top of the existing garage and connect to the new building.

[AndyPok1]

5 hours ago, sunshine said:

they r going to expand colonial? what a horrible idea...

Just under the highway to avoid backups and ease the in/out of downtown.  There's been a few arguments on the board about it. 

[prahaboheme]

How about something like this on the vacant lot at Pine and Orange:

http://www.dbusiness.com/daily-news/Annual-2016/Exclusive-Two-New-Residential-Buildings-Planned-for-Detroits-Capitol-Park/

 

 

[dcluley98]

Is that a Ripley's Believe it or Not?

 

[metal93]

I don't understand why post-modern architects feel the need to do unconventional things like that. That building without the weird split/tilt thing would look decent enough.

As for Pine and Orange, I actually do want to see a taller building there, preferably something close in size to the Metcalf building on the opposite corner, would complement the corner nicely.

[JFW657]

12 minutes ago, metal93 said:

I don't understand why post-modern architects feel the need to do unconventional things like that. That building without the weird split/tilt thing would look decent enough.

As for Pine and Orange, I actually do want to see a taller building there, preferably something close in size to the Metcalf building on the opposite corner, would complement the corner nicely.

Same here. Not only taller, but in that pre-modern, 1920's style with red brick and whatever it is that buildings like the Metcalf and Angebilt et al used for trim. Granite I'm guessing. Make it look like it was actually built during the same era.

Maybe toss in a modern touch or two.

Of course, it's highly doubtful any of that will happen. Probably three stories tops is the best we can hope for.

[RedStar25]

On 5/7/2016 at 4:52 PM, GTR said:

On 8/30/2016 at 7:13 PM, nite owℓ said:

That's a little harsh. Are property owners supposed to jump at every offer that comes to their door now?

I think Mama B's is a different story when compared to similar situations like the Lust Cash Transactor saga over at Mills Park. According to the owner, Ustler's group didn't even try to negotiate, they just made an initial offer and never bothered to follow up with a counter offer. I even think the Parramore church was justified in resisting considering how much the city bent over backwards to accommodate FUMCO, rerouted South St and was quoted to have spent more money on that property per sq ft than property sold in Manhattan at the time. So Mama B's, Lust Cash Transactor, Parramore church = greedy, but FUMCO = totally justified in raping the city in the name of the lord. Got it.

The only lesson I've taken away from each situation is to lawyer up from the initial point of contact so that you come out on top.

To be fair FUMCO was jerked around by the city for about 10 years and spent well over $3 Million renovating the former FIS building before the city finally made a decision. Additionally they church had to tear down two large buildings to accommodate the cities plan. I hardly consider paying fair market value for the land, plus demolition, plus recouping the money already spent to upgrade a decapitated block/building, legal fees, etc. "rape".