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Downtown Orlando Project Discussion


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18 hours ago, bulldogger said:

Not sure where to post this, so here goes.  This is a pic of the I-4 construction at Lake Ivanhoe.  I also grabbed a screenshot from a video on the I-4 Ultimate website which only seems to show perhaps a retention pond in this place.  What is that solid concrete tower that is higher than I-4 itself?

Probably the new height of I-4. In many sections, the height will be raised dramatically. You can see this happening right now near Michigan St. I think the goal is to end up with a fairly flat intersate, instead of the up-and-down that we have now.

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46 minutes ago, smileguy said:

Probably the new height of I-4. In many sections, the height will be raised dramatically. You can see this happening right now near Michigan St. I think the goal is to end up with a fairly flat intersate, instead of the up-and-down that we have now.

In an era that cities are trying to bury their highway or cover it up to create buildable lands....we are going to new height on our highways to make it visible and add privilage lanes.

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1 hour ago, smileguy said:

Probably the new height of I-4. In many sections, the height will be raised dramatically. You can see this happening right now near Michigan St. I think the goal is to end up with a fairly flat intersate, instead of the up-and-down that we have now.

In some locations around Lake Ivanhoe they plan to add in some ornamental features - I wonder if this is the start of that project.

At the moment, its looking like an air traffic control tower.

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4 hours ago, sunshine said:

In an era that cities are trying to bury their highway or cover it up to create buildable lands....we are going to new height on our highways to make it visible and add privilage lanes.

I think the higher elevation allows them to keep more of the stormwater retention under the roadway and reduces the need to take extra land for large retention ponds.  This might or might not be the case but it's my current theory.

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4 hours ago, smileguy said:

Probably the new height of I-4. In many sections, the height will be raised dramatically. You can see this happening right now near Michigan St. I think the goal is to end up with a fairly flat intersate, instead of the up-and-down that we have now.

A major component of the I-4 Ultimate project is making the highway flatter and straighter as well to improve flow and maybe raise the speed limit to 55 instead of the 50 it currently is now (but who am I kidding, everyone's going 70+ when it's not congested).

 

2 hours ago, AndyPok1 said:

We can't bury our interstate, and it needed revamped.  Even if you didn't add lanes, almost every exit that is part of the Ultimate construction within the urban core were pre-1970s ramps that weren't built to server a 2 million+ and growing metro.  They are one of the major creation of backups and accidents.  Fixing them alone is worth the cost of construction, but it'd be silly to do that and not add lanes simultaneously.

I-4 is the backbone of our region, like it or not.  Do I wish we could remove cars?  Sure.  But we must be practical.  The concept of raising it is BETTER, because then it can allow for interesting things underneath, like the plan is for downtown to make it LESS of a barrier.

Pretty much, the 408 interchange was completed a couple of years after Disney had opened, and I-4 itself was designed for pre-Disney traffic. The problem with the 408 interchange is not necessarily resolved by adding more lanes, but in the design of the ramps themselves and the auxiliary lanes. That short weaving section  of ramps in Parramore causes all the problems, the direct flyover ramps should fix this. I-4

I think I-4 could have been sunken between Amelia and South Street. Once I-4 crossed over Colonial it could have started to descend, eventually going underneath Amelia and continuing underground until South Street, where it would then pick back up again, go under Anderson and the 408, and finally over Division. It's a pipe dream but it would have been cool for Orlando to have a mile-long linear park resulting from putting I-4 underground. Maybe in the next 40-50 years when it comes time to replace I-4 again.

The concept of raising I-4 is only better between Washington and Church Street, where the bridge district is planned and things would be allowed to go under there. Otherwise it will continue to remain the same barrier it has always been in the rest of downtown. What has been mostly kept out of the public eye is that between Colonial and Washington, I-4 will become a 25-40ft high wall with the only openings being where the streets intersect. Kind of what it is now but worse. It doesn't look so bad now because it is grass berms with some trees and greenery, but it will eventually be filled up behind a retaining wall to fit the much wider profile of the new I-4, and I believe that would be detrimental to the streetscape of Garland and Hughey. If they made the entire section of I-4 between Colonial and South Street truly elevated on columns instead of block long berms, it would have been much better and I probably won't have as much of an issue with it.

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29 minutes ago, gibby said:

I think the higher elevation allows them to keep more of the stormwater retention under the roadway and reduces the need to take extra land for large retention ponds.  This might or might not be the case but it's my current theory.

And of course it's HUGELY less expensive than burying however many miles of I-4 we're talking about here.

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2 hours ago, WAJAS98 said:

I don't understand why all of I-4 through the downtown area is not a viaduct.  It would be one of the only real ways it could improve the aesthetic of the area because it can allow significant development underneath and decrease its status as a barrier.

My guess....

timemoney.jpg  

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I don't think underground is even feasible in Florida due to the water table. Sure, you could probably find a way to engineer it, but it wouldn't be ideal and would likely be WAAAAAAAAY more expensive and cost prohibitive. 

Everybody notes that I-4 and the 408 have created artificial barriers that divided the city, but quite frankly, these barriers have created a density that otherwise would not have happened over the years to make the CBD what it is today.  The way this is progressing, I think is a good thing. We have a density that can possibly support the transit (rail, etc) in the future because of this forced barrier, whereas without it we may have just seen more even more sprawl like places such as Phoenix, LA, Houston, Pinellas County etc. Now we have a catalyst for more DT growth already in place, and a raised, more accommodating artery directly to it, N-S-E-W with an urban park area underneath it.  Worked out better than the alternative, IMHO.

 

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2 hours ago, dcluley98 said:

I don't think underground is even feasible in Florida due to the water table. Sure, you could probably find a way to engineer it, but it wouldn't be ideal and would likely be WAAAAAAAAY more expensive and cost prohibitive. 

Everybody notes that I-4 and the 408 have created artificial barriers that divided the city, but quite frankly, these barriers have created a density that otherwise would not have happened over the years to make the CBD what it is today.  The way this is progressing, I think is a good thing. We have a density that can possibly support the transit (rail, etc) in the future because of this forced barrier, whereas without it we may have just seen more even more sprawl like places such as Phoenix, LA, Houston, Pinellas County etc. Now we have a catalyst for more DT growth already in place, and a raised, more accommodating artery directly to it, N-S-E-W with an urban park area underneath it.  Worked out better than the alternative, IMHO.

 

Orlando also doesn't have any real natural barriers like most big cities have... that caused them to be big cities. These artificial ones are helping to serve that purpose.

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The water table is an issue, but it's not something that can't be engineered around, despite the high cost of doing so. It's certainly not feasible now but I was saying maybe 40-50 years down the line when they have to do another overhaul of I-4 that they consider the underground option or at least make it a true viaduct with space underneath.

I made a before and after image of what the intersection of Garland and Livingston may look like in a few years, for example (excuse my quick photoshop) I am really hoping FDOT bothers to invest in a nice retaining wall pattern, or allow it to become a mural of some sort, or even a green wall. It'll still be the same barrier but even more imposing than it currently is.

Knowing FDOT though, and looking through the plans on the ultimate I-4 website, the majority of Hughey and Garland is probably going to look something like this:

58df0f1e609f5_i4beforeandafter.thumb.png.6e5965753ccc2ee3ef2dabcf1fb64dd3.png

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5 hours ago, WAJAS98 said:

I could really see a big project of the city being putting a mural on these retaining walls.  This disastrous wall could become a new frontier for art in Orlando if we play our cards right.

There is about a $1 million budget from FDOT for public art along the entire corridor, which won't have much impact.) If you remember, the Church Street underpass with LED lighting, a couple of benches, and streetlamps came in at $5 million.

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30 minutes ago, smileguy said:

There is about a $1 million budget from FDOT for public art along the entire corridor, which won't have much impact.) If you remember, the Church Street underpass with LED lighting, a couple of benches, and streetlamps came in at $5 million.

Seems to me that there must be scads of local artists around who would love the opportunity to get their work up on such a high profile location so much that they'd happily do it for free.

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Just a similar highway wall.  There may be landscaping but an area like Milk should make it funky.  If it's a wall then murals...if it's landscaped then something with gardens.   Would need a really progrsssive partner at CFX.

One strength of having a highway like that running through is that a bike path would work well along that side - no driveways or side streets just the signalized intersection.  Could be a good 2-way connection from CBD all the way to the exec airport and help out the Milk District too 

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On 3/30/2017 at 3:38 PM, bulldogger said:

Not sure where to post this, so here goes.  This is a pic of the I-4 construction at Lake Ivanhoe.  I also grabbed a screenshot from a video on the I-4 Ultimate website which only seems to show perhaps a retention pond in this place.  What is that solid concrete tower that is higher than I-4 itself?

As I drove past the "solid concrete tower" today, I noticed it was drastically tapered. Given that there are no fly overs in that area I would assume it's some sort of architectural feature or signature signage. At least I hope it is. 

 

Edited by RedStar25
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13 hours ago, RedStar25 said:

As I drove past the "solid concrete tower" today, I noticed it was drastically tapered. Given that there are no fly overs in that area I would assume it's some sort of architectural feature or signature signage. At least I hope it is. 

 

I believe it is a pylon to indicate that there is a direct express lane entry point there.  

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