Downtown Orlando Project Discussion

[sunshine]

Spice Steakhouse is finally closed! Thanks Buddha. What a waste of space. Hopefully something good will go in there.

[codypet]

On 7/8/2017 at 8:56 AM, JFW657 said:

An 18 story hotel was supposed to go there. It wasn't an opposite, mirror image building (although I often used to think that might've been kinda cool) but it did incorporate many of the same design elements.

They actually started driving the pilings for it before the project was abandoned.

I've often regretted the buildings we lost for nothing on that site, including the old Nickle's Alley nightclub.

So I have a question.  Last night when I was driving home I looked at this building and thought about the giant garage this building has.  Was the garage built to accommodate both buildings (bank and the hotel)?  I've heard the Wells Fargo building uptown has a garage sized for a similar tower that was supposed to go where Nora sits today.  I'm wondering if this is the case at BOA too, and if so do we actually have a glut of parking in the wrong place just because growth didn't happen where it was expected?

[metal93]

16 hours ago, orange87 said:

Has anybody checked to see if there's any sign of construction going on at the Majesty Building (I-4 Eyesore)? The owner said it's going to finish being built by the end of this year.

I drive by it every day on my way to work. It's hard to tell honestly because of all the I-4 construction work going on in the area, and I don't keep track of it, so I wouldn't really know what has exactly changed. I'll try to snap a few photos later today, if the weather permits. I don't see the project being finished by the end of the year if it keeps going at the glacial pace it has, but they could finish it if they finally secured the funding and picked up the pace of construction.

[jrs2]

3 hours ago, codypet said:

So I have a question.  Last night when I was driving home I looked at this building and thought about the giant garage this building has.  Was the garage built to accommodate both buildings (bank and the hotel)?  I've heard the Wells Fargo building uptown has a garage sized for a similar tower that was supposed to go where Nora sits today.  I'm wondering if this is the case at BOA too, and if so do we actually have a glut of parking in the wrong place just because growth didn't happen where it was expected?

Do you remember those maps they used to sell, those drawing maps at 3/4 angle views of cities, from back in the mid-nineties?  They would show buildings and points of interest in those cities drawn out. The one for Orlando actually had a rendering of the second tower, called "Olympia Tower" or something like that, and it was depicted as being several stories taller than Wachovia.

I don't know about BOA b/c I was told also that the original plan was two BOA's as mirror images of one another, across Livingston from each other.  But BOA is a big building with a lot of square footage and I would guess that the garage is just for it.

16 minutes ago, metal93 said:

I drive by it every day on my way to work. It's hard to tell honestly because of all the I-4 construction work going on in the area, and I don't keep track of it, so I wouldn't really know what has exactly changed. I'll try to snap a few photos later today, if the weather permits. I don't see the project being finished by the end of the year if it keeps going at the glacial pace it has, but they could finish it if they finally secured the funding and picked up the pace of construction.

my opinion is that nothing will get done.  I don't think there has been any work yet, but Central Parkway work has been ongoing just adjacent to it.  I wouldn't be surprised if they blame FDOT for any more delays to the project- I dunno- because of...some reason or another.

[spenser1058]

12 minutes ago, jrs2 said:

Do you remember those maps they used to sell, those drawing maps at 3/4 angle views of cities, from back in the mid-nineties?  They would show buildings and points of interest in those cities drawn out. The one for Orlando actually had a rendering of the second tower, called "Olympia Tower" or something like that, and it was depicted as being several stories taller than Wachovia.

I don't know about BOA b/c I was told also that the original plan was two BOA's as mirror images of one another, across Livingston from each other.  But BOA is a big building with a lot of square footage and I would guess that the garage is just for it.

my opinion is that nothing will get done.  I don't think there has been any work yet, but Central Parkway work has been ongoing just adjacent to it.  I wouldn't be surprised if they blame FDOT for any more delays to the project- I dunno- because of...some reason or another.

I believe the first duPont Centre II rendering was also similar to the original building and it later was changed to the hotel we saw in JRW's post (I think the financial issues had already made themselves known as they came up with "Plan B" but I may be wrong. More's the pity - I'd rather have Bill DuPont running the Magic than the DeVos clan for a variety of reasons.

[JFW657]

3 hours ago, codypet said:

So I have a question.  Last night when I was driving home I looked at this building and thought about the giant garage this building has.  Was the garage built to accommodate both buildings (bank and the hotel)?  I've heard the Wells Fargo building uptown has a garage sized for a similar tower that was supposed to go where Nora sits today.  I'm wondering if this is the case at BOA too, and if so do we actually have a glut of parking in the wrong place just because growth didn't happen where it was expected?

Well, according to the text beneath the pic of the model, it says two garages were planned. One building went up with one garage, so I can only assume that the existing garage was meant for the existing building only.

21 minutes ago, spenser1058 said:

I believe the first duPont Centre II rendering was also similar to the original building and it later was changed to the hotel we saw in JRW's post (I think the financial issues had already made themselves known as they came up with "Plan B" but I may be wrong. More's the pity - I'd rather have Bill DuPont running the Magic than the DeVos clan for a variety of reasons.

I vaguely remember something about a mirror image building. Might have even seen a concept drawing. Hard to say for sure. 1986 was a looooooong time ago.

38 minutes ago, jrs2 said:

Do you remember those maps they used to sell, those drawing maps at 3/4 angle views of cities, from back in the mid-nineties?  They would show buildings and points of interest in those cities drawn out. The one for Orlando actually had a rendering of the second tower, called "Olympia Tower" or something like that, and it was depicted as being several stories taller than Wachovia.

I might have a copy of the rendering(s) for Olympia Tower. When I get the chance, I'll look for it and post a pic if I find it.

[JFW657]

Nevermind.

Found it on Google Images...

[smileguy]

And this is what we ended up with - it looks like the garage was going to extend West.

[jrs2]

43 minutes ago, JFW657 said:

Nevermind.

Found it on Google Images...

Wow!  That's like an entire city!  What a project.  Too, too bad...  It looks like mid-range height buildings as well as garages.

Wow.  You know...big visions.  At least we know Orlando had them and the economic and business makeup of the day fostered it.  I think the last boom was the resurgence of the mid-eighties big projects.  Late '90's had some, though...

Edited July 11, 2017 by jrs2

[orlandoguy]

So I have a question.  Last night when I was driving home I looked at this building and thought about the giant garage this building has.  Was the garage built to accommodate both buildings (bank and the hotel)?  I've heard the Wells Fargo building uptown has a garage sized for a similar tower that was supposed to go where Nora sits today.  I'm wondering if this is the case at BOA too, and if so do we actually have a glut of parking in the wrong place just because growth didn't happen where it was expected?

The BOA garage fills up its first five floors pretty much daily during the week. The sixth floor (roof) generally doesn't get much more than 1/4 full, if that - except maybe after summer has ended and folks are back at work.

[orange87]

8 hours ago, smileguy said:

How tall is this building?

[JFW657]

1 hour ago, orange87 said:

How tall is this building?

Nineteen floors, it looks like.

[prahaboheme]

Thank goodness we did not end up with that initial plan - what a POMO disaster that would have been.  These 90s mega blocks pretty much defined the "New South" and I don't think anyone is looking to 90s Charlotte or Atlanta as inspiration for quality urban design standards.

North Quarter is still developing an identity and incremental development will continue to define its future - I hope.

[codypet]

From what I can tell the big building in the foreground was what was envisioned and basically became the current tower.  Meanwhile the second tower on the right is where the garage is today?  Is that what I'm seeing?  If so why would they front the garages on Orange?  That seems insane to me.

[orange87]

8 hours ago, JFW657 said:

Nineteen floors, it looks like.

Thanks, but I meant how many feet. Emporis says it's 241.86 feet, but they're not always right so I don't know if that's correct.

[metal93]

42 minutes ago, codypet said:

From what I can tell the big building in the foreground was what was envisioned and basically became the current tower.  Meanwhile the second tower on the right is where the garage is today?  Is that what I'm seeing?  If so why would they front the garages on Orange?  That seems insane to me.

North Orange was a vastly different place 30 years ago. I'm glad it turned out the way it did - but now the garage disrupts North Rosalind, which could in the future develop into a corridor similar to North Orange. If only they had built the garage with a larger setback - it would have allowed enough space for a liner building to hide the garage.

[Tim3167]

I recall seeing the model of this in the lobby. That larger tower and that small lower on top of that parking pedestal were both planned along Orange. The pic showing current building and the rendering are not from the same side of the property. The current tower is actually diagonally positioned behind that new tower in the rendering. I used to drive by that lot watching for activity of this.

[dcluley98]

I think Tim is correct. You can see the edge of the tower that is actually built just peeking out on the right side of the taller building and the garage they build is in the same spot in the rendering along Magnolia.

Edited July 12, 2017 by dcluley98

[codypet]

1 hour ago, Tim3167 said:

I recall seeing the model of this in the lobby. That larger tower and that small lower on top of that parking pedestal were both planned along Orange. The pic showing current building and the rendering are not from the same side of the property. The current tower is actually diagonally positioned behind that new tower in the rendering. I used to drive by that lot watching for activity of this.

Ah so it was like my original post.  The big tower was planned for where NORA sits today.  The tower to the right is where Citrus was.  So the rumors I'm told are wrong though and the garage as it sits today was only for the current tower, not planned for the 2nd one.

[jrs2]

Got this weird feeling like all development in Orlando is just cursed, in that, nobody wants to go vertical, b/c of some reason that might not be money.  Even Crescent Center (BCBS) in Lake Mary, the identical development is in Nashville way outside of town, except the buildings are 8 & 9 stories each, instead of 4 & 5 here.  I mean...wow...they built a garage in Heathrow for Deloitte.  And the new office for CNA off of 46A has a garage too.  Wow. 

Lucerne Promenade's other residential phase is 4 stories like Steelhouse.  Why?  The original design had a 20+ story tower that was nixed.  SoDo's residential is taller than that.  At least the main phase is 5 stories on top of retail, which is like 7 stories.

I feel like developers are just scraping by in Orlando.  They're building stuff, but with just a few exceptions which shine, they are scraping by.  Anyway.

[orange87]

11 minutes ago, jrs2 said:

Got this weird feeling like all development in Orlando is just cursed, in that, nobody wants to go vertical, b/c of some reason that might not be money.  Even Crescent Center (BCBS) in Lake Mary, the identical development is in Nashville way outside of town, except the buildings are 8 & 9 stories each, instead of 4 & 5 here.  I mean...wow...they built a garage in Heathrow for Deloitte.  And the new office for CNA off of 46A has a garage too.  Wow. 

Lucerne Promenade's other residential phase is 4 stories like Steelhouse.  Why?  The original design had a 20+ story tower that was nixed.  SoDo's residential is taller than that.  At least the main phase is 5 stories on top of retail, which is like 7 stories.

I feel like developers are just scraping by in Orlando.  They're building stuff, but with just a few exceptions which shine, they are scraping by.  Anyway.

I believe I said this on here before, but I think once Orlando becomes more dense and once available land becomes more limited I think we'll start seeing some taller buildings. I would assume limited land would drive up the price and make it so more serious developers are the ones who build, and they would want to build taller to make the most of the limited land. Think of NYC (I'm not saying Orlando will ever be NYC), but you rarely see short towers being built because it would be a waste of money to spend so much on land there only to build something that was short.

Edited July 14, 2017 by orange87

[jack]

Rental growth will help. And if Citi Tower and Modera are successful, that may lead to other high rises. 

 

The rent is too low!

[metal93]

While I do prefer high rises, I would like to see more of them go up along Hughey and Garland, and wouldn't mind if most of the other empty lots downtown become infilled with 4-6 floor buildings, as long as they do a good job of addressing the street level, and don't take up an entire side of a block.

[Jernigan]

Agree about Hughey and Garland.   Otherwise, as long as they are tall enough to provide shade to the street for a generous part of the day, I'm happy.   

I'd add that anything along Colonial would merit being above 8-10 stories.m at this point.   Steel house is a shame given how wide 50 is.

[prahaboheme]

Overhangs and balconies on all new buildings would also do the trick - hardly a novel concept in the south!