Downtown Orlando Project Discussion

[jrs2]

On 11/28/2017 at 2:44 PM, Ocityst said:

Using Chrome browser? Install this Plugin to see OBJ paid content

Oh, I like you!

[uncreativeusername]

On 11/29/2017 at 4:40 PM, Mark Baratelli said:

$70 for a YEAR of content is not a good deal? This is pathetic. Just pay the f***ing fees an support local journalists.

I feel you on this, but the a la carte nature of media consumption in the digital age is what makes $70 feel like an untenable price point.   Such a rate (or higher) might have made sense when a consumer subscribed to one local paper, one national paper, and perhaps a local business journal.  Today we're consuming articles a la carte from tens, if not hundreds, of sources.  If each of these sources wants  $70, whether or not this is a "good deal" for year-round access to unlimited content, it doesn't make sense when the consumer isn't reading cover-to-cover.  Simply put, the price model is designed around outdated consumer behaviors.   I am not in a position to spend $7,000 a year for 100 subscriptions - more realistically, I couldn't even afford to spend $1,500 on the 20 some-odd sources I frequent most regularly.  Fortunately, most of my news sources are ad-supported, and as much as I hate ads, I do turn off my adblocker for news sites.  

It doesn't help when the quality of the journalism is less than top notch...and of course I recognize the dilemma of maintaining journalistic standards without financial support.  I don't know what the solution is, and I do want to support local (any) journalists to a degree that matches my consumption of their output.  It just isn't as simple as consumers being crazy for scoffing at these rates.

Moderators, feel free to move this to the coffee house...apologies for mucking up the thread, but I wanted to reply directly.  

Edited December 1, 2017 by uncreativeusername

[Mark Baratelli]

Moderators please feel free to move this to the coffee house. My interrupting of the dissemination of OBJ content-stealing tips by the users under your watch mucked up the thread. My apologies. 

[Jernigan]

I don't find the OBJ to be worth the $70 per year...but that said, I don't even find it worth installing a plug-in to read either.  So I can sleep well at night knowing I'm not being unethical, nor wasting my time.

[JFW657]

3 hours ago, Mark Baratelli said:

Moderators please feel free to move this to the coffee house. My interrupting of the dissemination of OBJ content-stealing tips by the users under your watch mucked up the thread. My apologies. 

Nothing wrong with straying off topic a bit once in awhile. Keeps things interesting.

As for OBJ, they can take any money any of us might "owe" them out of the big, fat corporate tax give away they're about to get handed to them on a silver platter by our generous gub'mint, at the expense of the working class. 

They'll have plenty of money left over anyway, so I can't pity them too much. 

[sunshine]

Not sure if this has been posted..

 

The Olive

http://theoliveth.com/

[JFW657]

36 minutes ago, sunshine said:

Not sure if this has been posted..

 

The Olive

http://theoliveth.com/

Don't remember the project name (apparently in reference to it's proximity to Lake Olive) but I seem to recall a post and some discussion about a very similar project in that same general vicinity.

[steve_o]

19 hours ago, JFW657 said:

Don't remember the project name (apparently in reference to it's proximity to Lake Olive) but I seem to recall a post and some discussion about a very similar project in that same general vicinity.

I believe this may be dead.  The lots are all up for sale listed by the agents originally promoting this project.  

[bqknight]

Saw that Firestone was being torn down today and found this one article. Has this been posted before? 

This is is a pretty awesome project and would be amazing if done right. 

https://m.orlandoweekly.com/orlando/breaking-scene-developments-at-the-firestone-complex-with-blackstar-odd-jobs-and-the-vanguard/Content?oid=9229264

[JFW657]

34 minutes ago, bqknight said:

Saw that Firestone was being torn down today and found this one article. Has this been posted before? 

This is is a pretty awesome project and would be amazing if done right. 

https://m.orlandoweekly.com/orlando/breaking-scene-developments-at-the-firestone-complex-with-blackstar-odd-jobs-and-the-vanguard/Content?oid=9229264

Torn down????? 

I seriously doubt that. I'm pretty sure that building is protected.

From what I read, it sounded like the interior is just being gutted and remodeled.

[bqknight]

8 hours ago, JFW657 said:

Torn down????? 

I seriously doubt that. I'm pretty sure that building is protected.

From what I read, it sounded like the interior is just being gutted and remodeled.

No, torn down...

 

[spenser1058]

The Firestone has had landmark status since 1982.They can pretty much do what they want to the inside but to tear it down would require a brazenness even beyond Bulldozer Buddy's worst days. There haven't been any alerts on this other than a redo.

[bqknight]

39 minutes ago, spenser1058 said:

The Firestone has had landmark status since 1982.They can pretty much do what they want to the inside but to tear it down would require a brazenness even beyond Bulldozer Buddy's worst days. There haven't been any alerts on this other than a redo.

Ohhh, you all are right. I can see in the video now that's the inside. Hopefully the redo makes this place a great concert venue again. 

[JFW657]

1 hour ago, spenser1058 said:

The Firestone has had landmark status since 1982.They can pretty much do what they want to the inside but to tear it down would require a brazenness even beyond Bulldozer Buddy's worst days. There haven't been any alerts on this other than a redo.

The idea that such a historic and unique architectural gem would be torn down at all, much less without a lot of news coverage and mass protest before the first bulldozer even cranked up, just defies reality. 

No offense intended bqknight, but really..... 

[bqknight]

35 minutes ago, JFW657 said:

The idea that such a historic and unique architectural gem would be torn down at all, much less without a lot of news coverage and mass protest before the first bulldozer even cranked up, just defies reality. 

No offense intended bqknight, but really..... 

To be honest - I had no idea it had landmark status. I was quite sad to think it would be completely torn down (however, I definitely am excited they're putting some effort into it now). I'm also quite surprised there is not more news coverage of the redo. There's one article I could find on it. 

[JFW657]

2 hours ago, bqknight said:

To be honest - I had no idea it had landmark status. I was quite sad to think it would be completely torn down (however, I definitely am excited they're putting some effort into it now). I'm also quite surprised there is not more news coverage of the redo. There's one article I could find on it. 

To be equally honest I'm surprised (and happily so) it wasn't torn down back in the clueless 50's or 60's.

And that's probably only because it was likely still a working Firestone tire store. 

Had the business closed up and left back then, it probably would've gotten bulldozed for a 7 Eleven.

Edited December 21, 2017 by JFW657

[codypet]

When did it stop being a tire store?  For some reason I feel like it went into the early 90's still as a tire store.  One thing about Firestone is they build the stores and then don't really update them aside from a fresh coat of paint more recently.  Look at the stores in Pine Hills, E Colonial, and Curry Ford as examples.  Hell the old OBT one had its 60's era architecture until Walgreen's bought it in the 2000's

 

[JFW657]

50 minutes ago, codypet said:

When did it stop being a tire store?  For some reason I feel like it went into the early 90's still as a tire store.  One thing about Firestone is they build the stores and then don't really update them aside from a fresh coat of paint more recently.  Look at the stores in Pine Hills, E Colonial, and Curry Ford as examples.  Hell the old OBT one had its 60's era architecture until Walgreen's bought it in the 2000's

You're probably right about that date range. But knowing the "out with the old and in with the new" mindset that was so prevalent back then, had the place been vacated, it would likely only exist in old photographs today.

[orange87]

I remember a while ago some people on here were saying that they were embarrassed by downtown Orlando's lack of density and that when people they know visited their reaction to downtown Orlando was "I thought Orlando would have been bigger than this." Would you guys now say that once Citi Tower, Modera Central and Church Street Plaza (Tremont Tower) are completed that downtown Orlando will be more "impressive" and less "embarrassing" to people? That's three decent sized skyscrapers that will really add to our skyline and density.

[spenser1058]

One of the goals of the Frederick administration in enacting restrictive zoning for Eola Heights, Parramore and Thornton Park was to achieve density in the downtown core. That has mostly been achieved although some of our UPers would have preferred more verticality.

At the time, there was a suggestion that the Orange/Magnolia corridor north of Colonial should have had restrictions as well for at least a couple of decades but by the late '80's the horse had already left the barn and the former car lots along that stretch had already been abandoned as dealers moved out on West Colonial.

All in all, our downtown is unique and successful other than a dearth of retail, but we're even starting to make some progress there despite the Retail Apocalypse and a lack of will on that front by the DDB. UCF/VCC's downtown campus will hopefully move that process along. The final piece of the puzzle will be transit but that requires assistance beyond the city's jurisdiction and may take years.

Edited January 1, 2018 by spenser1058

[dcluley98]

Anybody who actually lives here could give a crap about so called "density" we want quality of life, options, real retail, good food, good infrastructure, parks, and transit. I think people mistake tall buildings for a good and vibrant downtown. 

[JFW657]

I think to most people, with whom urban lifestyle issues are even on their radar screens, understand that it takes more than densely packed buildings and tall skyscrapers to make an attractive city center.

But that doesn't make those aspects meaningless either.

The grand prize is to achieve a good balance and mixture of all three things. Vibrance, density and some decent height. 

The complete package, IOW.

[spenser1058]

Density is more important to me than height because if you don't have densIty and there are a lot of gaps and vacant lots, people won't get out of their cars and just wander.

It doesn't seem safe and it's just not appealing to walk around. That's exactly what happened downtown in the bad old days of the late '70's as the core was refitted to make it easier for cars than for people.

Ironically, there were several mid-tier cities that had a local firm build a trophy tower that would look attractive from the freeway, thinking they were doing a good thing (the Independent Life building in Jacksonville comes to mind.) However, what often happened instead was that all the offices gravitated to the newest supertall building and sucked the life out of everything surrounding it due to a dearth of demand.

Another problem which we saw here was developers leveling entire blocks, supposedly to make them shovel-ready for new buildings. Of course, no one has any interest in visiting or walking by an empty lot. That starts a downward spiral where the area is less attractive and the highest and best use of the area becomes pawn shops instead of boutiques and new offices. (That happened most notably with the duPont II site which sat empty for 20 years - North Orange Ave is only now recovering.)

The artificial height restrictions we have due to Herndon Airport probably helped us avoid that problem. Sure, our downtown doesn't look like much from the highway but it did provide the foundation for a walkable downtown. That plus easy access to the historic residential areas made our downtown ripe for redevelopment while Jacksonville's and Tampa's are still struggling.

Edited January 1, 2018 by spenser1058

[cwetteland]

Here here.  Dilly Dilly.  I couldn't agree more.   I've thought for a long time that the Herndon cap has done so much towards giving our city a livable scale.

[HankStrong]

 

On ‎12‎/‎31‎/‎2017 at 10:52 PM, orange87 said:

I remember a while ago some people on here were saying that they were embarrassed by downtown Orlando's lack of density and that when people they know visited their reaction to downtown Orlando was "I thought Orlando would have been bigger than this." Would you guys now say that once Citi Tower, Modera Central and Church Street Plaza (Tremont Tower) are completed that downtown Orlando will be more "impressive" and less "embarrassing" to people? That's three decent sized skyscrapers that will really add to our skyline and density.

I'm fairly sure it is the same.  I'm always fairly sure those aren't decent-sized SKYCRAPERS.  Those are mid-height buildings.... although I'm sure some of that depends on whether you use the 100m (328') standard of the mid-20th century or the modern 150m (492') definition.  From what I'm reading, they are looking to change the standard again to a minimum of 200m (656') to be called a skyscraper.

Orlando Metro area before the 3 you mention:  (I actually believe the 3 you mention are all still <100m... like 89m, 85m, and 99m respectively)

>200m = 0

>150m = 0

>100m = 8 (plus 3 other items - Orlando Eye, OIA tower, Sea World Sky ride)