Downtown Orlando Project Discussion

[orange87]

4 hours ago, dcluley98 said:

Colonial and Magnolia Retail and Self-Storage.

Significantly updated the architectural treatements and added glazing per the ARB's request. I like the architectural treatment, but note that there was a ground floor "arcade" like design along the building and the new renderings show that it is gone along the Colonial and Magnolia storefronts with the ground floor being build out closer to the curb and no covered walkway. Would have been nice to kee covered arcade on the corner. Overall an improved look, but sill not the greatest.  I wonder if they increased the footprint of groundfloor to gain more retail space or some other reason?

Looks better now, and slightly taller now too. Good.

Edited August 2, 2018 by orange87

[codypet]

31 minutes ago, sunshine said:

Are those people shopping again?

They came from Cambria Suites

1 hour ago, dcluley98 said:

Colonial and Magnolia Retail and Self-Storage.

Significantly updated the architectural treatements and added glazing per the ARB's request. I like the architectural treatment, but note that there was a ground floor "arcade" like design along the building and the new renderings show that it is gone along the Colonial and Magnolia storefronts with the ground floor being build out closer to the curb and no covered walkway. Would have been nice to kee covered arcade on the corner. Overall an improved look, but sill not the greatest.  I wonder if they increased the footprint of groundfloor to gain more retail space or some other reason?

 

They're looking to still kill everyone with those turn lanes.

[I am Reality]

Serious question . . . Why is architecture in Orlando so bland and uninspired? 

I have not seen an innovative design here since the old Pizzuti proposal.

The downtown has no identity at all, architecturally speaking. It's a total mismatch of buildings.  

We have perhaps the ugliest downtown building in the entire country. I want to implode the Fairwinds building every time I see it.  

The Bank of America building is almost as bad.  It's too wide at the base and too short to create any type of drama. It was supposed to be one of several other  similar-looking buildings at the old DuPont Center. That would have looked much better. Now it just stands alone and doesn't look right.

Do developers here even try to create anything distinctive?

I myself have joked about the plants proposed on the side of X Orlando. But at least it is distinctive. If other buildings did the same thing, the green building look could be Orlando's "thing", like some cities in Latin America. At least it would  be an identify and would be daring.

Other cities are trying all kinds of cool designs. The pic below is a $1 billion Frank Gehry-designed development going up in LA. It is super cool and daring. I am not comparing LA to Orlando. But I would love to see some more architectural ambition here.

[JFW657]

1 hour ago, orange87 said:

Looks better now, and slightly taller now too. Good.

The bland, mud grey color is dazzling. 

[spenser1058]

Don't worry, before it's done they'll paint it BLUE!

[jrs2]

16 minutes ago, I am Reality said:

Serious question . . . Why is architecture in Orlando so bland and uninspired? 

I have not seen an innovative design here since the old Pizzuti proposal.

The downtown has no identity at all, architecturally speaking. It's a total mismatch of buildings.  

We have perhaps the ugliest downtown building in the entire country. I want to implode the Fairwinds building every time I see it.  

The Bank of America building is almost as bad.  It's too wide at the base and too short to create any type of drama. It was supposed to be one of several other  similar-looking buildings at the old DuPont Center. That would have looked much better. Now it just stands alone and doesn't look right.

Do developers here even try to create anything distinctive?

I myself have joked about the plants proposed on the side of X Orlando. But at least it is distinctive. If other buildings did the same thing, the green building look could be Orlando's "thing", like some cities in Latin America. At least it would  be an identify and would be daring.

Other cities are trying all kinds of cool designs. The pic below is a $1 billion Frank Gehry-designed development going up in LA. It is super cool and daring. I am not comparing LA to Orlando. But I would love to see some more architectural ambition here.

Well, Tim Baker is on the DDB and has been since before the boom.  BB got almost all the contracts on everything built downtown since then.  So, BB has got the "in" on projects.  The City is corrupt.  Look no further than the midnite razing of the Jaymont Block and all of Kuhn's incentives.  This has been going on since the '60's with Mears; why would BB be any different.  Not gonna compare to other cities b/c this has to do with Orlando, not Chicago, not Miami, etc.

Suntrust was SOM, but I don't really like it.  I like BOA.  

Orlando is a weird animal when it comes to "city."  Southern Bank was I think the tallest at the time it was built.  At some point, it was decided that a downtown skyscraper whose floors numbered in the teens was acceptable.  Maybe it was a small town mentality or something.  Maybe it was a struggle find tenants to maintain even that little office space; dunno.  But by the time CNA was built, Tampa's corresponding skyscraper was also built and it was a 400 footer.  The counterpart in Miami was from 400' to 500'.  CNA was 280+ft.  The Fairwinds was an early '80's building I think.

But this goes back to what I said months back.  The city limits of Orlando population is small; they always have been.  It's a small city.  Buildings have developed from this reality as a result.  Sunbank and DuPont were a radical departure from what was being built prior to then; size-wise and design-wise.  Then  giant horse took a crap on the city's design vision- until the OCCC.

[I am Reality]

8 minutes ago, jrs2 said:

Well, Tim Baker is on the DDB and has been since before the boom.  BB got almost all the contracts on everything built downtown since then.  So, BB has got the "in" on projects.  The City is corrupt.  Look no further than the midnite razing of the Jaymont Block and all of Kuhn's incentives.  This has been going on since the '60's with Mears; why would BB be any different.  Not gonna compare to other cities b/c this has to do with Orlando, not Chicago, not Miami, etc.

Suntrust was SOM, but I don't really like it.  I like BOA.  

Orlando is a weird animal when it comes to "city."  Southern Bank was I think the tallest at the time it was built.  At some point, it was decided that a downtown skyscraper whose floors numbered in the teens was acceptable.  Maybe it was a small town mentality or something.  Maybe it was a struggle find tenants to maintain even that little office space; dunno.  But by the time CNA was built, Tampa's corresponding skyscraper was also built and it was a 400 footer.  The counterpart in Miami was from 400' to 500'.  CNA was 280+ft.  The Fairwinds was an early '80's building I think.

But this goes back to what I said months back.  The city limits of Orlando population is small; they always have been.  It's a small city.  Buildings have developed from this reality as a result.  Sunbank and DuPont were a radical departure from what was being built prior to then; size-wise and design-wise.  Then  giant horse took a crap on the city's design vision- until the OCCC.

I have seen a lot of criticism on here about Baker Barrios.  I didn't realize it is that influential.  They really seem to lack inspiration.  They crank out "nice" projects, but nothing really noteworthy or distinctive.  

The worst thing in life is being average. 

[orange87]

4 hours ago, dcluley98 said:

Couple of updates on projects in latest City reports:

Travelodge Replacement Hotel. Initial basing renderings are up in the MPB. Pretty Meh on initial design, but I like the glass. 

Enormous difference over what's there currently. An eight-story modern hotel instead of a dumpy old two-story motel? Yes please!

Also remember, the 13-story Radius building being built right next to it. This section of downtown Orlando is going to look completely different with these two projects.

[aent]

3 hours ago, jrs2 said:

Well, Tim Baker is on the DDB and has been since before the boom.  BB got almost all the contracts on everything built downtown since then.  So, BB has got the "in" on projects.  The City is corrupt.  Look no further than the midnite razing of the Jaymont Block and all of Kuhn's incentives.  This has been going on since the '60's with Mears; why would BB be any different.  Not gonna compare to other cities b/c this has to do with Orlando, not Chicago, not Miami, etc.

Suntrust was SOM, but I don't really like it.  I like BOA.  

Orlando is a weird animal when it comes to "city."  Southern Bank was I think the tallest at the time it was built.  At some point, it was decided that a downtown skyscraper whose floors numbered in the teens was acceptable.  Maybe it was a small town mentality or something.  Maybe it was a struggle find tenants to maintain even that little office space; dunno.  But by the time CNA was built, Tampa's corresponding skyscraper was also built and it was a 400 footer.  The counterpart in Miami was from 400' to 500'.  CNA was 280+ft.  The Fairwinds was an early '80's building I think.

But this goes back to what I said months back.  The city limits of Orlando population is small; they always have been.  It's a small city.  Buildings have developed from this reality as a result.  Sunbank and DuPont were a radical departure from what was being built prior to then; size-wise and design-wise.  Then  giant horse took a crap on the city's design vision- until the OCCC.

We had a topic on this a few years ago as well, and I was one of the few pro-dismantling  the DDB because while it may protect us from some bad, ugly, "inappropriate" projects, it also protects us from innovative projects that are interesting in design, and may be considered ugly by some, especially at the proposal stage, but beautiful by others. There's been a number of projects or proposals where they were even a little bit more edgy, and the DDB had them scale it back so everything blends together, ya know, removing the edginess.

[Jernigan]

Is there a list of B.B. buildings vs non?

A shareable website would be an interesting way to force the city, BB or both do better.   Ideally, spread the work around. But if corruption is unavoidable then let’s at least have better looking buildings.

[jliv]

9 hours ago, jrs2 said:

Well, Tim Baker is on the DDB and has been since before the boom.  BB got almost all the contracts on everything built downtown since then.  So, BB has got the "in" on projects.  The City is corrupt.  Look no further than the midnite razing of the Jaymont Block and all of Kuhn's incentives.  This has been going on since the '60's with Mears; why would BB be any different.  Not gonna compare to other cities b/c this has to do with Orlando, not Chicago, not Miami, etc.

Suntrust was SOM, but I don't really like it.  I like BOA.  

Orlando is a weird animal when it comes to "city."  Southern Bank was I think the tallest at the time it was built.  At some point, it was decided that a downtown skyscraper whose floors numbered in the teens was acceptable.  Maybe it was a small town mentality or something.  Maybe it was a struggle find tenants to maintain even that little office space; dunno.  But by the time CNA was built, Tampa's corresponding skyscraper was also built and it was a 400 footer.  The counterpart in Miami was from 400' to 500'.  CNA was 280+ft.  The Fairwinds was an early '80's building I think.

But this goes back to what I said months back.  The city limits of Orlando population is small; they always have been.  It's a small city.  Buildings have developed from this reality as a result.  Sunbank and DuPont were a radical departure from what was being built prior to then; size-wise and design-wise.  Then  giant horse took a crap on the city's design vision- until the OCCC.

The architecture is not daring because the clients are not daring.  There are some "starchitect" buildings in the greater Orlando area, but mostly on Disney property.  The buildings downtown were built for local banks, law firms, and government agencies; the architecture is a reflection of the amount of ambition of the Orlando business community.  But aren't we talking about a Hampton Inn here?  I don't think mid-price Hilton brands scream for edgy designs, anywhere...

[dcluley98]

The somewhat locally iconic Porter Paints store on  Colonial and Summerlin has closed.  http://photos.orlandoweekly.com/27-orlando-historic-landmarks-havent-destroyed-yet/?slide=25&screen-shot-2016-06-10-at-1-12-44-pm

Sign on the sign looking for new lessee. . . 

Edited August 5, 2018 by dcluley98

[spenser1058]

33 minutes ago, dcluley98 said:

The somewhat locally iconic Porter Paints store on  Colonial and Summerlin has closed.  http://photos.orlandoweekly.com/27-orlando-historic-landmarks-havent-destroyed-yet/?slide=25&screen-shot-2016-06-10-at-1-12-44-pm

Sign on the sign looking for new lessee. . . 

 

33 minutes ago, dcluley98 said:

The somewhat locally iconic Porter Paints store on  Colonial and Summerlin has closed.  http://photos.orlandoweekly.com/27-orlando-historic-landmarks-havent-destroyed-yet/?slide=25&screen-shot-2016-06-10-at-1-12-44-pm

Sign on the sign looking for new lessee. . . 

Yep, this is a fun tale. PPG bought Porter Paints in 1998. Eventually, when they got down to the store level, their marketing geniuses were incensed they couldn't replace the iconic Porter sign because one of the store managers (who apparently ended up working for PPG after the acquisition) had gotten landmark status for it. They never did seem to get over it although there may have also been other reasons for closing the store. I like the corner glass wall and the sign really is cool so I look forward to seeing what goes in there. I suspect it will not be Sherwin-Williams!

Given that the IHOP across the street is currently closed for repairs, that very busy corner is looking a little forlorn at the moment.

Edited August 5, 2018 by spenser1058

[HankStrong]

My mom's best friend when I was growing up was a Porter Paints store manager.  My childhood toys were always stored in their large paint drums, we always had PP aprons for home projects, and a I got the PP large paint stick across my rear end more times than I could count.  Filed under "surprises no one" young Henry was constantly in trouble for his mouthing off.

[JFW657]

Well, I hope you learned your lesson, young man!!!!

[I am Reality]

Hope a new owner will preserve the station.

https://m.orlandoweekly.com/Blogs/archives/2018/08/05/fergs-depot-has-closed

[WAJAS]

9 hours ago, I am Reality said:

Hope a new owner will preserve the station.

https://m.orlandoweekly.com/Blogs/archives/2018/08/05/fergs-depot-has-closed

Isn’t it on the local list of historic places? 

[I am Reality]

37 minutes ago, WAJAS98 said:

Isn’t it on the local list of historic places? 

I honestly don't know if it's protected.

It's definately on the National Registry of Historic Places. That does not protect it from possible demolition however.  (That makes no sense, in my mind).

It is designated on a local list of historic buildings as well.  I don't know if that designation offers any legal protection from demolition though.  

I certainly hope it is protected.  It is a great-looking building. 

Edited August 7, 2018 by I am Reality

[WAJAS]

41 minutes ago, I am Reality said:

I honestly don't know if it's protected.

It's definately on the National Registry of Historic Places. That does not protect it from possible demolition however.  (That makes no sense, in my mind).

It is designated on a local list of historic buildings as well.  I don't know if that designation offers any legal protection from demolition though.  

I certainly hope it is protected.  It is a great-looking building. 

The purpose of the local historic landmark designation is to give to the sites the preservation protection that the national list does not grant. All changes to the structures must be approved by the city’s mayor appointed Historic Preservation Board, which consists of Engineers, architects, developers, etc with a demonstrated interest in historic preservation.  The station is also in the Downtown Historic District, which makes significant changes or demolition of the structure even less likely.

 

I agree.  I liked it even more with the old steam locomotive there. I hope it returns someday. Talk about an easy way to attract the attention of passerbyers.

Edited August 7, 2018 by WAJAS98

[orlandouprise]

11 hours ago, I am Reality said:

Hope a new owner will preserve the station.

https://m.orlandoweekly.com/Blogs/archives/2018/08/05/fergs-depot-has-closed

so bummed about Ferg's.  went there all the time before OCSC games...That place was always overflowing w purple

[dwSouthEola]

On 7/17/2018 at 11:51 PM, Mark Baratelli said:

It looks like an office building. That part of Thornton Park is the Maitland of downtown. 

That part of Thornton Park ... isn't Thornton Park, it's South Eola  but they sure do have a huge sign on Pine St claiming the area for Thornton Park. Lol

[I am Reality]

A downtown Orlando HQ lease!!!

https://www.blaujournal.com/franklin-street-arranges-office-lease-for-radixx-solutions-international-in-orlando-cbd/

 

[HankStrong]

15 hours ago, dwSouthEola said:

That part of Thornton Park ... isn't Thornton Park, it's South Eola  but they sure do have a huge sign on Pine St claiming the area for Thornton Park. Lol

Possession is 9/10th of the law!

[Jernigan]

Anything new on OMA moving to DTO?

[spenser1058]

Maybe smileguy knows more about this than I do but I'm more convinced than ever this was mostly a feint by the new OMA director to establish his credibility and show things were moving again after a long period of stasis under Ms. Morrissey.

Also, I think the idea was a satellite location, not necessarily moving all of OMA. Not a bad idea but I wonder if it still has legs.