Downtown Orlando Project Discussion

[JFW657]

Now if they'd do something out in front like a courtyard of some kind.

[dcluley98]

I doubt they would put a courtyard because they are still going to need parking as a business, but they aren't done renovating yet. They will probably be re-doing the sign and the landscaping out front to make it much more attractive. 

The streetwall entrance alongside the hotel entrance to the south was the best part of this makeover. 

[JFW657]

Maybe it's just the camera angle, but it really doesn't look like there's enough room for more many cars in front. It kinda looks like they extended the facade out into the parking lot, too.

I was thinking maybe they had something worked out with the hotel and their garage. 

But then again, I guess being a pet supply store(?) they wouldn't have any use for a courtyard. I forgot what kind of business was going in there.

[I am Reality]

12 hours ago, klstorey said:

Love this idea.

I just stopped by the Winter Park Library to early vote and ended up buying three old photograph books about Orlando. I'm sure I'll end up posting some of the pics on here. 

There are a couple of very active and insightful Orlando history groups on Facebook. Historic Orlando III is the best one I'm in. Someone on there posted old photos, including an inside one, from the old round building from the days before the extra floors were added. 

Orlando has many strengths, but having strong historical significance is not one of them.  Orlando likely has less historical significance than any other U.S. city.  Even Los Vegas has more history.

In the context of urban development, Orlando cannot match the historical significance of among other things, Ellis Island, the Underground Railroad, the Gold Rush, the Chicago slaughterhouses, rise if the automobile, the effects of the Great Depression/Dust Bowl, the World War II factories, the post-war economic boom, & suburbanization (Levittown).

On a broader level, Orlando cannot match the historical significance of Lexington, Concord, the Constitutional Convention, Appomattox, Fort Sumpter, Richmond, Gettysburg, the burning of the White House, Pearl Harbor, etc.

Orlando was on the sidelines.

Americans are offen criticized by others as lacking any sense of history, given the newness of the U.S.   Orlando is the newest subset of the newness.  

History did not start when a handful of wealthy people bought cheap land here years ago.

History did not start with air conditioning.

History did not start when Disney came to town.

That's phony history and it totally lacks any  sense of perspective. 

[Dale]

Actually, Orlando has a nice stock of pre-war (and older) buildings in its core (including highrises) and is encircled with historic homes.

Wanna see relentlessly modern ? Come to Charlotte.

[spenser1058]

2 hours ago, Dale said:

Actually, Orlando has a nice stock of pre-war (and older) buildings in its core (including highrises) and is encircled with historic homes.

Wanna see relentlessly modern ? Come to Charlotte.

That's the funny thing. Orlando's stock of pre-WW II housing puts most other Sunbelt cities to shame. We were fortunate that, because our growth came in the outlying areas, the downtown core was simply ignored until Mayor Bill and an intrepid core of preservationists began restoration in the 1980's. 

Meanwhile, Nashville lost entire tracts of neighborhoods to interstate highways and "urban renewal" schemes around the Capitol and Vanderbilt.

Atlanta was so aggressive in destroying its history (remember, since it was burnt to the ground in 1864, it's basically no older than Orlando from 1875,) there's even a book about it, "Whatever Became of Atlanta?" by Norman Shavin.

The beginnings of white settlement in North America began not with the pilgrims in Massachusetts but with the Spanish in St Augustine, just 100 miles from downtown Orlando. The dean of Florida history has noted that, "by the time the Pilgrims got to Plymouth Rock, St. Augustine had already begun urban renewal."

Cowboys and Indians? Our Seminole wars were the bloodiest US battles other than those in the Civil War. The feud between the Earps and the Clantons? We had the Barbers and the Mizells.

(Great places to check out from the Seminole Wars are the NSB Sugar Mill Ruins

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Smyrna_Sugar_Mill_Ruins

and Fort Christmas

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fort_Christmas)

The man who made Orlando possible, Jacob Summerlin, was a smuggler for the Confederacy. Our cattle industry fed the CSA.

Our bid for modern history is unparalleled with the preservation of the space program at KSC, even as we enter the second golden age of manned space flight.

Those who say Orlando has no history simply haven't studied it. Our Orange County Regional History Center is recognized by the Smithsonian as one of the best local history museums and definitely worth a trip to learn more about all that's happened in the sandy spit of land we call home. Also, the Wells'Built Museum takes a look at our African-American heritage. 

https://www.google.com/search?q=Wells'Built Museum of African American History & Culture&ludocid=0x88e77baac7c72913:0x5430997d031c8edc#istate=kp:xpd

Edited August 25, 2018 by spenser1058

[I am Reality]

We are going to compare Orlando's history with the history of a city that literally burned down?

A cattle baron?  What events of historical significance were going on elsewhere while our history was being defined by cattle?

You are correct about St. Augustine.  It's a great place and one of my favorite places in the world. We don't live in St. Augustine though. 

As for pre-war buildings, what place on earth with inhabitants before the war doesn't have pre-war buildings?  I love older buildings.  Do you really think Orlando has more older buildings than other cities?  I would strongly disagree.

 But there is no way we are going to settle this.  People in every small town in America think their towns have great history.  I know people in the historical societies in Oviedo and Longwood.  They think their towns are totally unique.  I've seen things like this a thousand times.  It just shows a true lack of a real worldview.  People in places of actual historical significance (some of the smaller down south:  St. Augustine, Savannah, Charleston, Richmond, Williamsburg) must think others are crazy.  Everything is relative. 

Edited August 25, 2018 by I am Reality

[spenser1058]

Early voting continues today. GO VOTE!

(If you already have, thank you from the bottom of my pea-pickin' heart...)

JFW gets to wait 'till Tuesday 'cuz he's a party animal and is waiting to join the crowd *giggles*

Edited August 25, 2018 by spenser1058

[dcluley98]

LOL, let's change history folks. We are so shameful to have not had any meaningful inhabitants in this area before 1850. 

Gonna go get in my DeLorean right now and build a fort on Lake Eola and an art museum next to Lake Lucerne and a mission church in the middle. 

https://www.pinterest.com/cityoforlando/orlando-historic-buildings/?lp=true

[NJBlake]

4 hours ago, I am Reality said:

We are going to compare Orlando's history with the history of a city that literally burned down?

A cattle baron?  What events of historical significance were going on elsewhere while our history was being defined by cattle?

You are correct about St. Augustine.  It's a great place and one of my favorite places in the world. We don't live in St. Augustine though. 

As for pre-war buildings, what place on earth with inhabitants before the war doesn't have pre-war buildings?  I love older buildings.  Do you really think Orlando has more older buildings than other cities?  I would strongly disagree.

 But there is no way we are going to settle this.  People in every small town in America think their towns have great history.  I know people in the historical societies in Oviedo and Longwood.  They think their towns are totally unique.  I've seen things like this a thousand times.  It just shows a true lack of a real worldview.  People in places of actual historical significance (some of the smaller down south:  St. Augustine, Savannah, Charleston, Richmond, Williamsburg) must think others are crazy.  Everything is relative. 

Just to clarify, if a cities history doesn’t equate to the level of being part of the founding of the country, it’s history is unimportant?

[spenser1058]

6 minutes ago, dcluley98 said:

LOL, let's change history folks. We are so shameful to have not had any meaningful inhabitants in this area before 1850. 

Gonna go get in my DeLorean right now and build a fort on Lake Eola and an art museum next to Lake Lucerne and a mission church in the middle. 

https://www.pinterest.com/cityoforlando/orlando-historic-buildings/?lp=true

Don't forget Billy the Swan at Lake Lucerne! (If you do, he'll gut you... *giggles*)

[spenser1058]

I'm not sure why but I was reminded of this....

 

From "Steel Magnolias"/ YouTube

[I am Reality]

History can be a real beotch.  Either you've got it or you don't. 

I listed no less than 20 historically significant events that Orlando had no role in whatsoever.  Some were related to the founding of the nation.  Many were not.

But U.S. history only goes back about 250 years.  Should I have talked about Orlando's role in the Roman Empire?  During the medieval Dark Ages?  The Renaissance?  Tell me exactly what history I left out involving Orlando.

Ask any serious history professor about the historical significance of Orlando. They will laugh.  

Orlando's lack of history is nothing to be ashamed of.  But it's nothing to brag about either.  Let's keep a little perspective here.  

[I am Reality]

The News Junkie is reporting Ferg's will be turned into an Olive Garden.

The owners are apparently on a 3-4 year timeline.

I don't know how true this is, or where he got the news.

If true, I couldn't imagine a worse idea.  The space should be used for something truly unique.  The owners instead chose the most generic option possible.  Ugh.

Edited August 27, 2018 by I am Reality

[opivys85]

10 minutes ago, I am Reality said:

The News Junkie is reporting Ferg's will be turned into an Olive Garden.

The owners are apparently on a 3-4 year timeline.

I don't know how true this is, or where he got the news.

If true, I couldn't imagine a worse idea.  The space should be used for something truly unique.  The owners instead chose the most generic option possible.  Ugh.

One of the most frustrating things about Orlando. Too many chains, not enough unique institutions. I guess it's not part of the culture here yet.

[spenser1058]

29 minutes ago, opivys85 said:

One of the most frustrating things about Orlando. Too many chains, not enough unique institutions. I guess it's not part of the culture here yet.

Scott Joseph discussed that during the dustup with a Times-Picayune reporter in June:

https://www.scottjosephorlando.com/news/4371-convention-goers-are-apparently-dying-of-starvation

Turns out the sheer volume of Orlando visitors has a lot to do with it.

Also, since OG's owner Darden is headquartered here, I know they've wanted to be downtown ever since they left. They had a similar fascination with Park Ave in WP at one point but that dog just wouldn't hunt.

Edited August 27, 2018 by spenser1058

[Urban Mail Carrier]

Olive Garden. What a bad idea!

[spenser1058]

2 minutes ago, Urban Mail Carrier said:

Olive Garden. What a bad idea!

While I'm not a fan of McItalian, I can't deny they're popular. Since they're a local firm and they have history on Church St., I'm inclined to give them a pass.

[HankStrong]

Their breadsticks are second only to FAT-zoli's.

[spenser1058]

2 minutes ago, HankStrong said:

Their breadsticks are second only to FAT-zoli's.

E. Colonial and OFS were doomed once the Fazoli's closed!

[I am Reality]

10 minutes ago, spenser1058 said:

While I'm not a fan of McItalian, I can't deny they're popular. Since they're a local firm and they have history on Church St., I'm inclined to give them a pass.

We know.  Trust me, we know. 

[FLClarkKent]

Not buying it. Couldn't imagine the cost of getting that building reconfigured for a full service restaurant. Granted, an Olive Garden really only needs a microwave, but still...

[spenser1058]

4 minutes ago, FLClarkKent said:

Not buying it. Couldn't imagine the cost of getting that building reconfigured for a full service restaurant. Granted, an Olive Garden really only needs a microwave, but still...

I was wondering about that also. Didn't someone say they ran Ferg's kitchen out of train cars? Seems like the volume an OG does would preclude that.

Edited August 27, 2018 by spenser1058

[JFW657]

1 hour ago, spenser1058 said:

While I'm not a fan of McItalian, I can't deny they're popular. Since they're a local firm and they have history on Church St., I'm inclined to give them a pass.

A friend of mine worked at the OG in Daytona Beach back in the mid 80's. I dropped in one evening as we had plans to hit some bars later on. He directed me to look in a particular booth on my way out. 

Paul Newman and family and Tom Cruise were the occupants. They were in town filming Days Of Thunder.

So I always figured if OG is/was good enough for Paul Newman, it's good enough for me and most other reg'lar folk.

Not mention this professional restaurant reviewer and world renowned food critic...

[spenser1058]

Now, Tom Cruise had great legs in really short shorts (aka,briefs)

From YouTube