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Downtown Orlando Project Discussion


sunshine

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I say lets give it up for PCL and the 408 interchange. they are already placing cross beams between Church and Pine along the Garland side of I-4 for the 408 west to I-4 east ramp.

Have you seen a list of their other projects? I saw one in ENR and it's pretty amazing. The Ringling bridge(causeway?) in Sarasota. Some crazy bridge on the Natchez Trace. Some huge oil rig.

Anyway, there is an article today on the main UP page about raising gas taxes. At this time of historically low prices (recent, and really not much above the 30 year historical I don't think) is this the time to do it?

I think the last raise was in 1993? It's 18 cents or so now. Boy we're really going to see how bad my memory is because I'm too lazy to go back and look.

Alan Greenspan, and many others are proposing it to attempt to curb consumption.

Any thoughts?

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  • 2 weeks later...

436 & 50.

anyone know if there are actual plans for how the new interchange will look and function? will it be like 414 & Forest City Rd., or will it also have an access road? I don't think its on DOT's website.

I'm sure the plans are done, the real civil plans that is, but dunno about renderings. You would have to visit the office to see the plans I imagine. And then explain why you want to see them with security these days.

Oh Altimike-

The United States once built 500 electric streetcar systems in less than 20 years. Most cities and towns of 25,000 or more got a non-oil electrical transportation system. The US did this with a population of less than one-third of today's, approximately 3% of today's GNP, and relatively primitive technology.

This info is from Alan Drake, a researcher and activist on the subject.

This was in the early 1900's, roughly 1895-1915. Now you may wonder, why did we get rid of these streetcar systems that we ingeniously built?

Well some people thought everyone needed a car...and it's hard to sell cars when there is an alternative

One other interesting fact-probably the largest city in the US that never implmented any form of subway or elevated rail service is Detroit-the home of the major US auto makers. It's worth noting that Detroit had a maximum (yes, it's shrinking now of course) population of 2 million in the '50s...... an awful large city to have no real public transit besides buses (which I understand suck, due to city-county infighting)

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I'm sure the plans are done, the real civil plans that is, but dunno about renderings. You would have to visit the office to see the plans I imagine. And then explain why you want to see them with security these days.

Oh Altimike-

The United States once built 500 electric streetcar systems in less than 20 years. Most cities and towns of 25,000 or more got a non-oil electrical transportation system. The US did this with a population of less than one-third of today's, approximately 3% of today's GNP, and relatively primitive technology.

This info is from Alan Drake, a researcher and activist on the subject.

This was in the early 1900's, roughly 1895-1915. Now you may wonder, why did we get rid of these streetcar systems that we ingeniously built?

Well some people thought everyone needed a car...and it's hard to sell cars when there is an alternative

One other interesting fact-probably the largest city in the US that never implmented any form of subway or elevated rail service is Detroit-the home of the major US auto makers. It's worth noting that Detroit had a maximum (yes, it's shrinking now of course) population of 2 million in the '50s...... an awful large city to have no real public transit besides buses (which I understand suck, due to city-county infighting)

at some time contruction was started in detroit on a subway system. you can learn more about it in the detroit forums. apparently work was stopped midway through construction....... all that are left are some unfinished tunnels.

http://www.urbanplanet.org/forums/lofivers...php/t18781.html

also, detroit does have that "people mover" through downtown. however, its nothing to get worked up over :lol:.

Edited by shardoon
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at some time contruction was started in detroit on a subway system. you can learn more about it in the detroit forums. apparently work was stopped midway through construction....... all that are left are some unfinished tunnels.

http://www.urbanplanet.org/forums/lofivers...php/t18781.html

also, detroit does have that "people mover" through downtown. however, its nothing to get worked up over :lol:.

I have heard of that people mover, that it's pretty nice (i.e. clean) and cheap, but I'm assuming it's not really for residents and that it's also relatively new?

Thanks for the info though. That's wild they have those unfinished tunnels down there.

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I guess we just have to be good little consumers and buy the big companies tell us to buy. Amazing the influence they have had over the development of our country, or the hinderance thereof. I appreciate the fact that we can just drive anywhere at a whim, but I feel if we had more of a chance to develop public transportation, there would be many unforseen benefits. One of the benefits might have been to curb the "Hockey Stick" graph that shows CO2 levels from early history when they were normal through the industrialization where they spiked.

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Did you all hear that the OOCEA is scaling back their 5-year plan, because of low funding for all the projects? The ones I heard that are getting cut are: SR 417/Turnpike Interchange, SR 414 Apopka Bypass north of SR 429 to US 441, adding lanes to SR 408 around the Goldenrod area, and there are a few more. Some of these are a huge blow for traffic in the Orlando area.

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Did you all hear that the OOCEA is scaling back their 5-year plan, because of low funding for all the projects? The ones I heard that are getting cut are: SR 417/Turnpike Interchange, SR 414 Apopka Bypass north of SR 429 to US 441, adding lanes to SR 408 around the Goldenrod area, and there are a few more. Some of these are a huge blow for traffic in the Orlando area.

That's nuts. So, what are they out of money? Or did they give it all away to that PR guy?

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If you live in Avalon Park JRS, what is it like to live in a New Urbanist community? Does it feel like living in a small city?

actually, the stink of it is that I live in Winter Park. I only went to Avalon to see a friend's halloween decor and to hang and drink while the townsfolk came around with their kids. I could have avoided all of that hassle if I would have just stayed home.

As for new urbanism, I think Celebration and Baldwin are better examples. Avalon shows signs of new urbanism, but for the most part its just a giant PUD with retail and only 2 bldgs that are urban core mixed use mid-rises. The rest of the retail is not memorable. But it is nice, don't get me wrong. In fact, word is that they want to incorporate into their own municipality. Baldwin is more impressive... to me at least. Baldwin, once Baldwin Harbor gets built (which won't be until the Spring for Tower 1 groundbreaking, if that early), will really give Celebration a run. It already has elements in its DT that are better than Celebration. ANd vice versa. Both are nice.

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Did you all hear that the OOCEA is scaling back their 5-year plan, because of low funding for all the projects? The ones I heard that are getting cut are: SR 417/Turnpike Interchange, SR 414 Apopka Bypass north of SR 429 to US 441, adding lanes to SR 408 around the Goldenrod area, and there are a few more. Some of these are a huge blow for traffic in the Orlando area.

adding lanes to the Goldenrod area isn't that big a cut-- it's already 8 lanes between 436 and 551.

as for the Apopka Bypass, well, that sucks. However, if you go to 441 & 414, you can see bulldozers up the hill where 414 ends at 441 (west side of 441). go figure?

as for the TNPK interchange, I won't hold my breath since they've been talking about it for years anyway.

the Apopka bypass sucks b/c it will delay the Wekiva Pkwy.

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adding lanes to the Goldenrod area isn't that big a cut-- it's already 8 lanes between 436 and 551.

as for the Apopka Bypass, well, that sucks. However, if you go to 441 & 414, you can see bulldozers up the hill where 414 ends at 441 (west side of 441). go figure?

as for the TNPK interchange, I won't hold my breath since they've been talking about it for years anyway.

the Apopka bypass sucks b/c it will delay the Wekiva Pkwy.

The toll trolls are taking all the money and distributing it amongst themselves, there is no cut in funds, there funds are what we pay to drive on the stupid roads and there are more cars on them now so its not like people arent driving on toll roads anymore. Eventually we will "Pay to Wait, on not just the 408". I would rather sit in traffic for a little bit then pay the 6 or 7 dollars it cost to drive around Orlando, not to mention the miles you are going out of the way and gas doing it, it all equals out, at least you get to see the city :yahoo: driving through orlando. All these loop toll roads were suppose to originally ease traffic in downtown on i4, haha, they just created more b/c now there are house popping up all along them.

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The toll trolls are taking all the money and distributing it amongst themselves, there is no cut in funds, there funds are what we pay to drive on the stupid roads and there are more cars on them now so its not like people arent driving on toll roads anymore. Eventually we will "Pay to Wait, on not just the 408". I would rather sit in traffic for a little bit then pay the 6 or 7 dollars it cost to drive around Orlando, not to mention the miles you are going out of the way and gas doing it, it all equals out, at least you get to see the city :yahoo: driving through orlando. All these loop toll roads were suppose to originally ease traffic in downtown on i4, haha, they just created more b/c now there are house popping up all along them.

It just seems like traffic gets worse everyday, Ive been all over and My top 5 for traffic would have to be-

1 L.A. 2 Houston 3 Newyork and Metro 4 Atlanta 5 Orlando. We should double decker the 408!!!!

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All these loop toll roads were suppose to originally ease traffic in downtown on i4, haha, they just created more b/c now there are house popping up all along them.

Gee...never saw that coming. If there is one thing I have learned from living in Atlanta, it's that more roads beget more traffic. No city, anywhere has ever been able to pave it's way out of congestion. Instead of building more roads we need to start working on changing peoples expectations and lifestyles.

And I agree with the other poster, Goldenrod is plenty big. I lived on Goldenrod near the intersection of University for two years while attending U Can't Finish.

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Gee...never saw that coming. If there is one thing I have learned from living in Atlanta, it's that more roads beget more traffic. No city, anywhere has ever been able to pave it's way out of congestion. Instead of building more roads we need to start working on changing peoples expectations and lifestyles.

And I agree with the other poster, Goldenrod is plenty big. I lived on Goldenrod near the intersection of University for two years while attending U Can't Finish.

I couldn't agree with you more. We need to stop letting things sprawl all over the place, focus on density & mass transit. I would love to be able to live where I could walk or take a train to work.

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Gee...never saw that coming. If there is one thing I have learned from living in Atlanta, it's that more roads beget more traffic. No city, anywhere has ever been able to pave it's way out of congestion. Instead of building more roads we need to start working on changing peoples expectations and lifestyles.

And I agree with the other poster, Goldenrod is plenty big. I lived on Goldenrod near the intersection of University for two years while attending U Can't Finish.

Bingo!

It is impossible. There is some truth to the belief that if you build roads bigger than they need to be, that they will be nice and wide open for a while. And of course it is true that generally FDOT builds roads just big enough to handle traffic at the time the design was done. But, building larger will just encourage MORE growth rather than less. Then you're back to square one. Builders see those roads, those available trips, and see a gold mine <_<

Plus it's the law of diminishing returns. 2 lanes to 4 will handle maybe 1.75 times the traffic....4 to 8 maybe 1.5....et al. Although I totally admit I am pulling those numbers out of my butt, it's still a fact.

Drive into Houston with it's 8-10 lane (EACH WAY!) freeways and see if it's any better than I-4 besides just a bigger parking lot. At night it's surreal, just a sea of pavement, but God forbid you are driving in on 59 @ 8 on monday morning.

Again, you are right. The current non-negotiable 'murrican way of life has got to change a little. If not a lot. I saw a thing on some morning show about people who, gasp, actually use their front yards to grow some vegetables or herbs! Like this was some kind of scandal! God forbid you get rid of the crop of St. Augustine in the front yard!

Speaking of 'new urbanism' we have an old example right here in College Park. And in other places in the city, of course, just sticking up for the 'hood :D

I can't say enough about being able to walk to the grocery store, walking by my hair cutting guy on the way (Tom @ Tabloid Salon!), walking to a mini epcot of restaurants, riding my bike to the post office....et al...

can't beat it man.

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