Downtown Orlando Project Discussion

[prahaboheme]

I also see nothing wrong with the Ace development as this is an abandoned historic building that will be saved from the wrecking ball and it brings a different type of clientele to the center.

 

Eventually I think we'll see a mixed-use development at this corner as the adjacent properties (Central Station, Creative Village) evolve.

[JFW657]

I also see nothing wrong with the Ace development as this is an abandoned historic building that will be saved from the wrecking ball and it brings a different type of clientele to the center.

 

Eventually I think we'll see a mixed-use development at this corner as the adjacent properties (Central Station, Creative Village) evolve.

 

Or maybe just behind it, leaving the Leu Bldg intact.

 

Plenty of room for a tower & garage there without having to demolish anything.

 

[cwetteland]

^ I'm pretty sure that the the top (north) most yellow outlined parcel is phase II of Ace Cafe.

[JFW657]

Possibly.

 

Depends on how far back Ace will extend.

 

I was kind of assuming it wouldn't extend very far back.

 

Looks like there'd still be room back there, though.

 

Of course, we're just engaging in speculation & maybes here anyway. 

[prahaboheme]

The existing buildings in the top yellow parcel are actually incorporated into the Phase II design.

[JFW657]

I dunno. If you go to Google Earth & zoom down in on that parcel from the northwest, you'll see that those particular buildings look to be just a couple of ramshackle old tool sheds or something.

But the overall point that there likely wouldn't be enough room to put up say, a parking garage for an adjacent high rise there after Ace builds out, is probably correct.

At any rate, I'd still prefer the Ace project as opposed to an office building on that spot.

[nite owℓ]

I'm happy with ACE cafe moving in and I don't even care about cars/motorcycles. The owners are buying eyesore buildings that have been neglected for decades and spending money to renovate them; i.e. they're being good neighbors and they're adding to the diversity of downtown. We can't keep wishing for highrises when our downtown isn't even at capacity yet.

 

The only thing I'm concerned about is noise pollution. Are these the types of of enthusiasts who remove their mufflers from the exhaust systems?

[nite owℓ]

August's ARB:

 

Hyatt Place

Interesting to note that they are in negotiations with FDOT "about the potential of relocating the south bound Sun-Rail station on the south side of South Street to this location." This is a great idea considering the South platform's detached/haphazard/deserted location. Does anyone remember the reasoning behind the South platform's location?

 

 

 

 

Lexington Court
ARB to developer: Too many colors!

 

[Boomer136]

^^ I think it was because no building proposal was available for that parcel so didn't want to paint a developer into a corner. This shows it was envisioned for the train to stop there in the first place. Awesome! I hope it goes through.

[Jernigan]

I remember it being due to a lack of right of way on both sides of the tracks at the time

[jack]

August's ARB:

 

Hyatt Place

Interesting to note that they are in negotiations with FDOT "about the potential of relocating the south bound Sun-Rail station on the south side of South Street to this location." This is a great idea considering the South platform's detached/haphazard/deserted location. Does anyone remember the reasoning behind the South platform's location?

 

Hyatt Front.jpgHyatt Rear.jpgS Platform.jpg

 

 

 

Lexington Court

ARB to developer: Too many colors!

 

Lex Court.jpg

I think it was lack of ROW. If the previous project had moved forward (Hilton), they probably could have had the platform next to the building. 

 

I think the colors are fine. 

Edited August 18, 2014 by jack

[jrs2]

^^

Yeah.  ROW issues.

Now, the FDOT is using ROW as a carrot ala the I-4 widening.  that platform is too remote.  It would be ok if they would have opened up the garage with an access entrance facing the tracks so people could easily get out of the rain.

 

^^

Lexington Court- I like it.  Is it at Lexington & Hughey?

[codypet]

I dunno. If you go to Google Earth & zoom down in on that parcel from the northwest, you'll see that those particular buildings look to be just a couple of ramshackle old tool sheds or something.

Riding Sunrail through there, you'll see its missing a whole side, and appear to be an old barn with a bunch of bar stools, and broken tables.

[nite owℓ]

The city should extend facade grants to properties visible along SunRail. Currently, the grants are only available to properties visible from the street within the CRA and limited to facade and/or structural improvements.

[Pete C]

Florida Retail Report: Orlando leads urbanization trends

 

http://www.orlandosentinel.com/business/brinkmann-on-business/os-florida-retail-report-orlando-leads-urbanization-trends-20140825,0,2121611.post

 

From the report: According to U.S. Census data from 2000 to 2012, the population in Orlando’s city center grew the most of the largest five metro areas of Florida, increasing 34.2% over the period. Tampa’s city center had the second-fastest rate of population growth at 14.5%, followed by 14.2% in Miami and then 13.7% in Jacksonville. 

Edited August 25, 2014 by Pete C

[spenser1058]

Let's imagine any suburb in Florida growing by 35% and practically the only retail growth in the area being a 7-Eleven on every corner. If that's not market failure, I'm not sure what is. What's even more amazing is that no one at DDB has even questioned it. Fascinating, isn't it? But hey, everything's just fine in Downtown Candideville - oops, I mean Orlando!

[prahaboheme]

Can it really be true that Orlando is leading in percentage residential growth downtown? 

[spenser1058]

If you consider that most of the towers that were built during the last boom were primarily residential, it seems plausible. Orlando didn't succeed in selling all those condos to empty nesters but they have fillled them up as rentals to the under-30 crowd, and often several roomies to a 2-bedroom unit. In the recent NYTimes story about the Miami boom, it observed that many of their condos were bought by international investors and often went unused much of the time. It's my guess that's why our number of actual residents exploded, because we were putting actual "heads in beds," as the motel folks would say.

 

I think most interesting is the fact that it comes from the Shopping Center folks themselves - can't say this is some governmental scam trying to flim-flam the, ummmm, market.

Edited August 27, 2014 by spenser1058

[Jernigan]

Let's imagine any suburb in Florida growing by 35% and practically the only retail growth in the area being a 7-Eleven on every corner. If that's not market failure, I'm not sure what is. What's even more amazing is that no one at DDB has even questioned it. Fascinating, isn't it? But hey, everything's just fine in Downtown Candideville - oops, I mean Orlando!

Yet one can live downtown and be just as close to every retail store from big box to high end as a resident in the suburbs.

What's missing isn't the access to retail, it's the access to retail on foot. Instead of counting heads in beds, maybe the market is more interested in counting heads without cars?

[spenser1058]

It's a valid point except the market doesn't do that kind of analysis. Most of the time, site selection for retail is done on the basis of relationships (it's why Simon snagged an H&M for a marginal mall in Sanford and why, when upscale retail first came to Orlando, it was Saks Fifth Avenue, which had ties to long-standing Ivey's). If we need retail downtown for those who don't want cars, we don't expect the retailers to do it - we expect someone like DDB to make the case as to why it would work for a given retailer.

 

That's the piece we're missing - there seems to be no one downtown with the connections to the people that make the deals. And, you can research far and wide, as I have been doing, and you'll find that no one at City Hall has lifted a finger to call anyone at Unicorp or Simon or the owner of the local Ace Hardware stores or done anything to change that since the move to get a grocery store and a movie theater downtown. 

 

Hence, the result you'd expect - a 7-Eleven on every corner.

[Universe_Explorer]

Yet one can live downtown and be just as close to every retail store from big box to high end as a resident in the suburbs.

What's missing isn't the access to retail, it's the access to retail on foot. Instead of counting heads in beds, maybe the market is more interested in counting heads without cars?

This is a great point.  The biggest difference between my life in downtown Orlando and my life in Manhattan was the ability to have a care parked in the garage attached to my apartment.  Practically every retial need I had was in short driving distance.  I prefer to walk to bars/restaurants - and even the gracery store for the most part - but it never bothered me to drive to the mall to buy clothes.  The type of "new" urbanism in the sunbelt cities has added the parking spot.  When's the last time a condo tower went up in any of these places without a garage?  The older cities we frequently comparing ourselves to were built when cars were a luxury and now parking is a ridiculous premium in those towns.  Don't take this the wrong way - I agree with Spenser - it will require the DDB or City Hall to encourage retail growth.  I've given my wish list ad nauseum on this site, so I won't go into it.  BUt I do beleive specific types of retial can thrive downtown in thie day and age

[jack]

Unicorp built the retail at the Plaza. And i think the city did reach out to General Growth and some bigger developers as well. I cant speak to the results but I imagine they went no where. I remember when Kuhn went belly up with CSS, the City tried to bring in Cordish but they want everything given to them for free. 

[Jernigan]

I don't disagree with spencer as much as I'm hesitant to hold any one paradigm because it's such a complicated and dynamic topic.

Park Ave. has a ton of retail, right? But while I can buy a ton of expensive "stuff" there, I can't buy groceries on foot like I now can in Orlando. The Publix, Trader Joes and future Whole Foods is not within that footprint.

One thing to optimistically hope for is SunRail expanding service coupled with the Ultimate I4 project over the next 6 years. Will that be a long enough stretch (assuming the train service expands sooner than later) that people will flock to retail by train versus driving to Millenia? We already see a lot of success in Winter Park and that's with infrequent service mid day and evenings and no weekends. And without i4 being dug up...

[jrs2]

The unfortunate thing with downtown was on many fronts:

1.  Pearlman douched out and could've been a good development catalyst; music scene plus investment

2.  Kuhn...well...anyway...he spread himself too thin with the Jax project and we were left with the jefferson St. garage instead of his proposal.

3.  Steve Walsh...committed suicide... no TT; etc... it would've been built if they played ball with some intl investors...

4.  City Hall delayed too many projects during the concrete shortage thus killing them.

 

All of these heavy hitters just took a dive and all that was left were the likes of Ustler, GDC, and Unicorp, etc...  and City Hall...  

 

But, I think the Artisan 420 project along with Citi Tower will really add to the retail element in South Eola.  Also, NORA's retail and potentially The Sevens' retail will give a super boost to Uptown.  The Resident Inn at 50 will add some mouths also

 

But, I think that Crescent will boost central (courthouse district) downtown retail and the Magic complex will do nothing on that front.  

[Pete C]

Moving my comment to coffee house

Edited August 27, 2014 by Pete C