Jump to content

Downtown Orlando Project Discussion


sunshine

Recommended Posts

Having lived in Orlando most of my life, I kinda figured once all the 408 construction was completed that the tolls would be raised. I was actually surprised it was never mentioned until recently. The tolls were raised to start construction on extending 408 and building the 417 and that was the last increase. Now they are using the terminology that "they can't finish the job completely" unless the they raise tolls. Since the widening on the 408 that is being scrapped is in the Goldenrod area, why not raise the Dean toll plaza 25 cents and the University toll plaza on the 417 25 cents and the Lee vista toll plaza 25 cents? That would be no big deal. I don't know if anyone remembers but when the 408 was extended to Waterford the Mainline plaza out there was 75 cents, the mainline plaza at Good Homes was 75 cents, the little Dean Rd toll was 50 cents and the Hiawassee toll was 50 cents.....they decreased them all by 25 cents to increase ridership. Same as the mainline University toll on the 417 and the Lee Vista toll on the 417. Now they've "built" their way in to ridership by all the new development so they no longer have that problem. I no longer believe the falsehood that the Beltway was built to relieve traffic on I-4. It was built for access for development. And if the 408 were never extended at both ends Waterford Lakes or Ocoee/WG/Clermont would not exist in the same form they are now.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 2 weeks later...

God I hate Orlando traffic, I just totaled my car this morning on University Blvd., when a young college girl turned in front of me and I creamed her car, man it was crazy, no one got hurt tho thats the only positive thing i guess!!!

Yeah, traffic in Florida is no joke. I believe we have the highest vehicle accident fatalities per capita in the nation.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I like that the expressway authority is lengthening the merge lanes, it makes merging or getting off at an exit a lot safer. I'll be really happy when the downtown I4/408 interchange is complete. Its a nightmare now. You have this dangerous lane change and very little time to make it. The Trans4mation website makes it look a lot better, plus apparently it makes most of the existing interchange unneccessary, and that can all be demolished and used for expansion of the residential development that is in that area. Or a little pond.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

If you are traveling westbound on I-4 in the morning, the Princeton exit is backed up to the edge of the highway at times. The DOT better do something before the Florida Hospital extension is finished or else cars exiting will take up a travel lane.

I have to correct this. The exit lane backs up the entire length, but the lane (which is a fifth lane at this point) being used does not really go into a 'travel lane' as it only starts at Par, which is the previous exit.

Edited by bulldogger
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Thomas: Raise our tolls? They must be kidding

Published November 21, 2006

http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/local/...-home-headlines

I read most of this at home and on the surface it sounds right. But after thinking about it, it doesn't make sense. Yes the scandals are bad. But what do you do about it? You stop what's going on. You put proceedures in place to prevent it from happening again. You punish those who violated laws. You throw out the bums who failed to exercise oversight. And you legally recoup losses where you can.

What does that have to do with the ability to build needed roads in the future that have higher construction cost? Is Mike Thomas just saying that since they screwed up in the past our answer is to deny commuters the needed upgrades?

The question of whether to raise tolls is about what is needed and what it will cost? The issue of past malfeasance is about what do we do to prevent it from happening again. They are two seperate issues.

Edited by cwetteland
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I read most of this at home and on the surface it sounds right. But after thinking about it, it doesn't make sense. Yes the scandals are bad. But what do you do about it? You stop what's going on. You put proceedures in place to prevent it from happening again. You punish those who violated laws. You throw out the bums who failed to exercise oversight. And you legally recoup losses where you can.

What does that have to do with the ability to build needed roads in the future that have higher construction cost? Is Mike Thomas just saying that since they screwed up in the past our answer is to deny commuters the needed upgrades?

The question of whether to raise tolls is about what is needed and what it will cost? The issue of past malfeasance is about what do we do to prevent it from happening again. They are two seperate issues.

I read the article as well, and while I do see your point (projects DO need to get funded), I think that in light of the recent scandals involving the Expressway Authority, there is a good reason to pause.

Mike states near the end of the article, "They would like us to give them $1.24 billion more in toll increases before we find out how they've spent the last $2 billion. We discuss toll increases after we change the board make-up to replace political cronies with elected officials."

I have no problem with reasonable toll increases - there haven't been any in years.... but it would be very prudent to insist that the EA puts their own house in order before asking for more money. What assurances do we have that this money is TRUELY needed, and that it won't be misused or wasted? After they have proven to be competant handlers of our tax dollars, I'd be happy to support their funding efforts.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I read the article as well, and while I do see your point (projects DO need to get funded), I think that in light of the recent scandals involving the Expressway Authority, there is a good reason to pause.

Mike states near the end of the article, "They would like us to give them $1.24 billion more in toll increases before we find out how they've spent the last $2 billion. We discuss toll increases after we change the board make-up to replace political cronies with elected officials."

I have no problem with reasonable toll increases - there haven't been any in years.... but it would be very prudent to insist that the EA puts their own house in order before asking for more money. What assurances do we have that this money is TRUELY needed, and that it won't be misused or wasted? After they have proven to be competant handlers of our tax dollars, I'd be happy to support their funding efforts.

I think we agree. While there is no direct connection ... I also think that you make sure issue one is completely fixed before you embark on issue two. Whether or not tolls need to be raised however (and I'm not saying they are) should be assessed independantly. IF there needs to be an increase, maybe some contengency statement that says that funding will be put into an escrow account until which time an independant entity confirms that adaquate oversight is in place.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I still think that if u want to build new road, you should toll the people that use it to build it. Not increase the toll at somewhere else to build new road and then toll us again when the new road is done. Loan enough money to build the new one and paying it back with toll.

We all know that they are not going to remove the toll or reduce toll when they make money. Increasing toll is a just a one way street to higher cost for consumers.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Thomas: Raise our tolls? They must be kidding

Published November 21, 2006

http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/local/...-home-headlines

Sad to say, they are not kidding

I guess it's a sign of the times that raising the tolls is the only way the Expressway Authority can really shut Geotzloe up

I hope for our sake these added revenues will bring a hell of a lot more roads to help with the traffic

Knowing our luck, these new roads will be heavily tolled also

Such as life

Link to comment
Share on other sites

They really need to build the Central Connector that Pine Castle blocked back in 1991 so people living downtown (and hopefully some name companies some day) can get to/from the airport easily. It blows my mind that they can actually build stuff like the new Maitland extension and other sprawly nonsense but a road connecting downtown to the airport is not even considered.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

They really need to build the Central Connector that Pine Castle blocked back in 1991 so people living downtown (and hopefully some name companies some day) can get to/from the airport easily. It blows my mind that they can actually build stuff like the new Maitland extension and other sprawly nonsense but a road connecting downtown to the airport is not even considered.

You have a great point there gibby, you would think that a "Downtown Revitalization Plan" would include an easier way to get to a major airport. It takes 30-45 minutes with no traffic to get downtown from OIA.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

They really need to build the Central Connector that Pine Castle blocked back in 1991 so people living downtown (and hopefully some name companies some day) can get to/from the airport easily. It blows my mind that they can actually build stuff like the new Maitland extension and other sprawly nonsense but a road connecting downtown to the airport is not even considered.

well, the alternative is that they are currently widening the Fla Tnpk to 8 lanes between I-4 and 528; eventually to 6 lanes from Osceola Pkwy to the Oakland/Clermont exit. I think it's as straight a shot as we are going to get-- if they change the ramps at 528 it could be a huge improvement.

I don't think they are going to do the 436 median expressway thing since they just got done widening 436 from Curry Ford to 528.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I still think that if u want to build new road, you should toll the people that use it to build it. Not increase the toll at somewhere else to build new road and then toll us again when the new road is done. Loan enough money to build the new one and paying it back with toll.

We all know that they are not going to remove the toll or reduce toll when they make money. Increasing toll is a just a one way street to higher cost for consumers.

I agree or take all the tolls off the roads and make them free to use thus maybe not having to spend more money on other roads.What i dont get is they use tax money to build these roads and are supposed to stop charging tolls after the roads are paid for good example is FLA turnpike!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I agree or take all the tolls off the roads and make them free to use thus maybe not having to spend more money on other roads.What i dont get is they use tax money to build these roads and are supposed to stop charging tolls after the roads are paid for good example is FLA turnpike!

All they have to do is just keep building-i.e. the continuous divider that they have now installed along just about all of the Turnpike, or more lanes, or maybe more on the Plazas....or trips for executives....or they can just 'restructure' their debt.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

All they have to do is just keep building-i.e. the continuous divider that they have now installed along just about all of the Turnpike, or more lanes, or maybe more on the Plazas....or trips for executives....or they can just 'restructure' their debt.

That's like asking a heroin addict to get off the junk! Once they finish the construction maintenance fees are indefinite, not to mention inflation over time. If roads were constructed from private or federal funds with tax dollars used for maintenance the story would be totally different.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The Expressway Authority needs to be stopped and people need to actually show up at the meeting they have before the raise the tolls, b/c they are trying to scare everyone with the notion that if they dont raise tolls they wont be able to do the new projects that need to get done such as extending the Apopka Bypass, which in my opinion makes no sense b/c they will be putting a toll plaza on the bypass to pay for it right. Dont they collect money on the 429 to pay for the 429, and so on, you dont collect money on one road to support another road, b/c the purpose is for the road to pay for itself or make money, and if it cant pay for itself or make money then it doesnt need to be built. I dont want to pay another 25 cents at every toll i go through so these toll trolls can waste even more money.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I think most of us can agree the idea of adding to the tolls now is ridiculous until the audits are settled and any problems are cleared up.

As to how tolls work, it is standard practice to use funds from a busy, profitable, successful stretch to get new links up and running. That's what roads like the Turnpike and the E-W have done. Hardly any road starts out paying for itself- it's hard to imagine now, but when the E-W (SR408) first opened in 1973, despite its being in the middle of town, it was losing money and the county had to support it. Today, it is the major cash cow that makes it possible to add other tollways until they get up to speed and then can pay for other roads, etc., and the cycle continues. To the credit of OOCEA, many areas let the initial road essentially fall apart once built (maintenance is usually supposed to transfer to state or county agencies once a toll facility is built, but that often seems not to happen), but once the initial 30-year bonds on the E-W were paid for, they undertook a major reconstruction of the original highway.

Despite the current problems OOCEA is having, I have marveled over the years how quickly they commit to a project and then get it done relative to FDOT. It's also interesting to me that Teresa Jacobs thinks converting the board to politicians is a panacea- that's the makeup of LYNX, and it has been hardly an example of efficiency.

One of the unfortunate blind spots of Jeb's time in Tallahassee has been his almost blind faith that people from the private sector will do the right thing, and as a result has had several scandals regarding his appointments. What I would like to see is the appointments of OOCEA and GOAA brought back to the local level, where we could have more control over them. That is how OUC works, and it has generally avoided the leadership crises of some of the other authorities. It has also won awards for its reliability and charges less per KWH than the other private utilities in the area.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 2 weeks later...

Land buy advances Wekiva parkway

The $74 million price reflects pressure to shield the river from later development.

In what could rank among the most costly environmental land ever purchased in Florida, state and local authorities agreed Thursday to pay $74 million for a relatively small parcel near Wekiva River wilderness as an essential move toward building an expressway through the area.

http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/custom...-home-headlines

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

By using this site you agree to our Terms of Use and Privacy Policy. We have placed cookies on your device to help make this website better. You can adjust your cookie settings, otherwise we'll assume you're okay to continue.