Downtown Orlando Project Discussion

[jrs2]

^^

that will cost $$$.  bridges, etc...

 

Right now Port Canaveral is trying to get the deal done to link rail from KSC and its existing freight RR bridge to the mainland linked to the Port where the new container terminal is going.  All that would have to be done there would be to lay new tracks south from KSC and onto Port property- and that's it for cost.

[jrs2]

It's not dead yet.

 

Crist says he would seek Orlando-Tampa rail funding again

 

http://www.orlandosentinel.com/business/brinkmann-on-business/os-crist-orlando-tampa-rail-funding-again-20140916-post.html

that ain't gonna happen.  that money is gone.  plus, he would have FEC to contend with.  the Obama-Rail plan is in the past now.  there's no way they would build this line if FEC is already planning it- unless FEC decides not to do it.  that's the only way.

[John Hargrove]

Yep...when it was mentioned here we started poking around...and decided it wasn't worth writing about. Anyone can create renderings and a sales flyer...ok well maybe not anyone.

 

More on this from OBJ ... 

 

 

World Trade Center Orlando pulls down LoopNet listing, confirms no deal near SunRail

 

http://www.bizjournals.com/orlando/blog/2014/10/world-trade-center-orlando-pulls-down-loopnet.html

[nite owℓ]

Pardon any redundant news, but while reading the Orlando Sentinel today I stumbled upon an article about Lake Eola's potential future:

 

"A volunteer committee appointed by Mayor Buddy Dyer has come up with a recommendation that would give park visitors a bit more room... A preliminary recommendation from the group's Arts and Culture Committee would fill in a portion of the lake, thus providing more dry land. Committee members say the current Walt Disney Amphitheater is poorly designed and too small, and should be replaced with a new world-class one. The new bandshell would fit on the filled-in part of the park, along with [PERMANENT] concessions and restrooms, a festival plaza, sandy beach and other upgrades. The plan, which is just in the conceptual stage, would likely be costly and at this point is completely unfunded."

 

I did a quick google search for more info and found this rendering:

http://projectdto.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/08/Arts-Culture-FON-DRAFT-shown-8.8.2014.pdf

 

Usually plans like this can take years to come to fruition and will go unnoticed by the public until it's too late. This is very worrisome, IMO. Thoughts?

 

 

[John Hargrove]

Pardon any redundant news, but while reading the Orlando Sentinel today I stumbled upon an article about Lake Eola's potential future:

 

"A volunteer committee appointed by Mayor Buddy Dyer has come up with a recommendation that would give park visitors a bit more room... A preliminary recommendation from the group's Arts and Culture Committee would fill in a portion of the lake, thus providing more dry land. Committee members say the current Walt Disney Amphitheater is poorly designed and too small, and should be replaced with a new world-class one. The new bandshell would fit on the filled-in part of the park, along with [PERMANENT] concessions and restrooms, a festival plaza, sandy beach and other upgrades. The plan, which is just in the conceptual stage, would likely be costly and at this point is completely unfunded."

 

I did a quick google search for more info and found this rendering:

Lake Eola.jpg

http://projectdto.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/08/Arts-Culture-FON-DRAFT-shown-8.8.2014.pdf

 

Usually plans like this can take years to come to fruition and will go unnoticed by the public until it's too late. This is very worrisome, IMO. Thoughts?

 

I have mixed feelings toward this. It's true that the amount of "festival space" down there is pretty spread out, and the amphitheater looks like it belongs in front of a middle school or something.

 

I can't get over the hilarity of filling in a lake and then building a water feature on it, though. EDIT: Just noticed the beach. This just in: the beach is funnier.

 

I can't see it ever getting funded, or surviving the inevitable non stop negativity that will be thrown at it.

Edited October 4, 2014 by castorvx

[Boomer136]

RE: Lake Eola stuff. I will let other discuss the removal of the Relax Grill and beach installation which will of course require the removal of the aluminum blades of death art feature that I believe is called Taking Flight and focus on the Amphitheater.

 

In brief: the amphitheater as it is now is very inadequate for professional, ticketed performances and there is no easy, non-drastic way to remedy that. 

 

1: It is zoned residential so limiting the time of day and loudness allowed at the curb as compared to the old Harley Hotel now condos which is zoned in the entertainment district and therefore can be louder and go longer than the performance space can.

 

2: It faces the wrong way

• until tall buildings can blot out the sunset which pours onto the stage and the audience is easily distracted by passing traffic especially emergency vehicles and Harleys, both the condos and the motorcycles. I was really hoping for the hotel, because it might have also blocked the air handlers on top of the AT&T building whose noise gets caught nicely by the shell

• the main walking path goes right through the audience area, ticketed events are easily subverted by berm watchers, and the audience area is very difficult to separate from other park users.

3: Seating is limited, around 983 or something with 6 designated wheelchair spots, and not enough rake for rear seats to be good seats.

 

4: There is limited what can be laughably called dressing room and gear storage space.

 

5: It works well as a band shell because it is reflective as a shower stall but therefore makes for a horrible reinforced sound venue or theatrical performances.

 

Now, full disclosure, I have advocated for flipping the stage/audience area in a jocular 'they'd never spend the money" way when asked what could be done to make it more attractive to professional show producers.

 

So there it is in a nutshell, so to speak, and it is really rather quite shallow around the slab, which has been there since the 70's? or so. Anyway, my take. Included are expressed concerns from area producers.

[spenser1058]

Several thoughts on Lake Eola:

 

(1) Only our current administration could tout a bug as a feature. The evisceration of Parks & Recreation during the Great Recession which resulted in the destruction of flower beds the city has been known for over the course of a century is a travesty. Also, the horrible, cheap turf masquerading as grass in the "Eola Five" section dies every time there's an event like MoviEola where it gets any use. The signature park for the city deserves better.

 

(2) As Boomer points out so well, the amphitheatre isn't designed for professionals. I think that idea got legs when Orlando Shakes was using it for performances, an idea which even they abandoned. What is ridiculous is that the city doesn't program basic community events on a regular basis. There ought to be events several times a week, even if it's only amateur and high school or college groups. It need not cost a lot of money other than a city staffer to line up folks. As to the weather and the sun problem, this is Florida. Most of the year, you can program things after the sun goes down.

 

(3) Filling in the lake is absurd. If you want to expand Eola, go ahead and make Washington St. an actual part of the park and close Eola Drive between  Washington and Robinson (all of the properties along Eola Drive have rear access). Buy the two empty lots on either side of Lowndes, Drosdick. Narrow Robinson St. and Rosalind to 2 lanes (yes, those are state roads and we'll need Tallahassee approval, but that's why we have a legislative delegation, which, btw, is about to include major leadership positions in the next couple of years.) Also purchase the historic house along Central and the non-descript building housing downtown's 277th 7-Eleven. If the city can't afford it thanks to Buddy's venue spending spree, make use of a conservancy to get it done.

[sunshine]

I do not object to filling in part of the lake. I would rather see them expand the footage of the park. Buy that entire block next to Eola Drive where Panera sit and expand it. The law firm is trying to sell the land anyway. And if thats not possible, create a new park at Paramorre.

[neoanderz]

I have mixed feelings toward this. It's true that the amount of "festival space" down there is pretty spread out, and the amphitheater looks like it belongs in front of a middle school or something.

 

I can't get over the hilarity of filling in a lake and then building a water feature on it, though. EDIT: Just noticed the beach. This just in: the beach is funnier.

 

I can't see it ever getting funded, or surviving the inevitable non stop negativity that will be thrown at it.

 

I also think it is very strange to remove any surface area of a lake to add a water feature.  Also, strange to add a beach when you aren't allowed to go in the water due to water quality issues.  So we will be losing part of the lake so that we can walk on sand.  Will there be swans on the beach?

[Boomer136]

4000 seating is not for middle-school bands to wack away at notes, it means acts that can draw 3000 or so people. Acts like that mean semi-trailers. So you need a place to back in and park at a dock space at least two semi's that are out of the way. The rendering in the PDF includes space not used for seating in the amphitheater, btw.

 

Now we are talking of filling in lake, I'd like to fill in less of the lake. I also dislike their east facing of the amphitheater. I am not a photo editor but here would be my suggestion should they want spend the money. This is the St. Augustine Amphitheater placed as I think would work best giving dock space to the trucks down the current, but would need to be widened, load in path to the current amphitheater. Past the bleachers to the north is open green space, not part of the seating, Should be approximately to scale +/- 20'. The squared of section down right is there because I cannot free form crop, so imagine more water there, trucks parked a truck length off the current shoreline.

 

 

This way the PA is blowing into offices rather than across the lake hitting Post Parkside as well.

 

[FLClarkKent]

I'm glad that the city is looking into ways to improve Lake Eola Park and re-purpose the amphitheater, but....to do so at the expense of the lake itself? Just can't get behind that.

 

Sunshine mentioned crating a new park in Parramore. I'd also recommend improving/expanding Festival Park to make it more inviting for hosting events.

[Pete C]

I thought of filling in a sandy beach around a portion of Lake Eola a few years ago. It's a natural fit for the downtown crowd. I love the idea.

[nite owℓ]

I strongly disagree with filling in Lake Eola - it's small enough as it is. We're talking about the encroachment of a downtown icon for the sake of an average of 5 concerts a month? Seriously, how often is the St Augustine amphitheater used a month? Or Cranes Roost amphitheater? Let's not forget how large amphitheaters look & feel when they aren't in use. I'm also not a fan of installing "permanent vendor facilities and structures" in the park either.

 

I'm all for expanding the park and I could get behind spencer's idea, but the current plans are a huge blunder. The fact this is even up for discussion should raise a few red flags; Lake Eola isn't protected.

 

Who are these people on the committee? They want to pave paradise to put up a parking lot. Shameful.

[sunshine]

How about the idea of floating stage? win-win situation for everybody. It creates architecture interest and minimum filling of lake.

[Boomer136]

5/3 Bank seems to be doing well. They deserve a 400' AA office tower on an empty lot downtown, don't you think? Then raze their current home and make that whole corner part of the park. Southwest corner.... You're next!

[jack]

(3) Filling in the lake is absurd. If you want to expand Eola, go ahead and make Washington St. an actual part of the park and close Eola Drive between  Washington and Robinson (all of the properties along Eola Drive have rear access). Buy the two empty lots on either side of Lowndes, Drosdick. Narrow Robinson St. and Rosalind to 2 lanes (yes, those are state roads and we'll need Tallahassee approval, but that's why we have a legislative delegation, which, btw, is about to include major leadership positions in the next couple of years.) Also purchase the historic house along Central and the non-descript building housing downtown's 277th 7-Eleven. If the city can't afford it thanks to Buddy's venue spending spree, make use of a conservancy to get it done.

It seemed absurd initially but I can see how it will benefit everyone. I care more about Lake Eola Park vs Lake Eola. It is not like we use it anyway. 

 

Removing Eola Dr. is an interesting idea. I could see that working out (but we need to add parking somewhere). 

 

I can get behind narrowing Robinson st. But that down side is that it is so backed up during afternoon rush hour. we need to find an alternate route. 

 

The old TKO building and City Centre could have been purchased for next to nothing in 2010. The City missed a good opportunity. 

[JFW657]

I like the idea of redoing & expanding the amphitheater even if it involves building out into the lake a little.

 

Who cares if the lake has a few square feet less surface.

 

But afaic, everything else should stay like it is. 

 

Especially Eola Dr

 

I like Eola Dr just like it is & I like the buildings that sit along the East side of it. 

 

And besides, I doubt very seriously that the park will ever be expanded out that way anyway.

[sunshine]

Just for an example...short buildings can be interesting and not so squat and boring...

 

Oslo Version of urban renewal

 

[nite owℓ]

The idea of filling in Lake Eola is a terrible idea, especially considering the tiny size of the lake and few amount of times amphitheaters are typically used on a monthly basis. How exactly is a larger (and seldom used) amphitheater considered a public benefit again? We already have the Amway Center, Citrus Bowl and Dpac for events. Not everything in Orlando needs to be turned into a theme park, a venue or some kind of gimmicky attraction. Yes, let's expand the park, but let's do it responsibly and not at the expense of ruining an icon. The fact that this is even a discussion makes me feel like I'm in the Twilight Zone.

[klstorey]

The 441 Corridor Alternative public meeting results have been posted. 

 

I'm pleased to see that out of the 4 options full length commuter rail gained the most votes.

 

 

Couple of interesting insights from the results.  Orlando residents or commuters (who attended Lynx meeting) had the highest number of full commuter rail votes.  Tavares meeting had the lowest number of express bus votes but tied with Lynx for the highest number of mixed mode votes.  Tavares had the same amount of people (2) who vote to do NOTHING as vote for commuter rail.  Apopka favored commuter rail with express bus coming as a distant second with less than half of the full commuter votes. 

 

Those Tavares numbers are most troubling to me.  I think that points to push-back that may occur from commuter rail.

[sunshine]

Why is filling in part of the lake bad? Nobody will notice the different.

[Boomer136]

Grouping the proposed amphitheater with the Amway and the Citrus Bowl is silly. A proper grouping of who would use what would be the Disney and Carr Theaters of DP³CA, Hard Rock Live and The Venue at UCF. Now none of these are open air, and an amphitheater just has it's own feel and would attract people to use it. The Project DTO folks are focused downtown of course, but a world class amphitheater would be good for the community. Pops concerts outdoors are a staple in other communities where I've lived and visited. Plus the opportunity for more entertainment choices is always good.

 

Another venue in town has the seat count, actually more seats, but because there is no permanent stage house I left it off the list. But something sort of magical happens when you overlay the St. Augustine Amphitheater as the model under discussion at this site. It would only require building the stage house and adding some seats in front of the current structure, plus renovating the structure. Again, don't hate me for my photo editing skills, or lack thereof, but within +/- 20' of accuracy, I give you The Tinker Field Amphitheater:

 

 

Taking two controversies and making something hip, even getting the revitalize the area around the Citrus Bowl people on board one would hope, renovating the seating areas with traditional amphitheater cabaret type seating for picnic lunches with wine etc. The location of Dr. MLK's speech on the mound is upstage center and this facility would just scream MLK Day Festival.

 

Meanwhile, at the lake, demo the shotcrete "wish I was the Hollywood Bowl" structure, build a proper stage house with backstage facilities on the existing slab (maybe cantilevered a little over the lake for a larger backstage), cut down the trees in the back of the audience area replacing the seats previously taken out, build a shade structure with lighting and audio positions built in and add some noise abatement berms, still in keeping with an iconic structure. That would maximize the use of that facility. And if you still want, build a baseball stadium on McCracken Field. I symbolically drop the mic.

[Jernigan]

They should probably just do the combo - rail from Apopka (Oranges 2nd largest city) to Orlando (the largest) and then express bus for the rest.

Once that is up, the business communities in Lake, especially Mount Dora, will do the campaigning to extend the line. Why make it a regional fight? Let Lake tussle on their own.

[codypet]

I thought about this a couple weeks ago.  Why not two Sunrail lines that form an X-15 mins offset from each other?  The current Phase 1 & 2 Sunrail be a line, and then The Orange Blossom run from Apopka to the Airport, into Lake Nona and ICP?  Must have stop in College Park.  They'll dual run Church St., Orlando Health and Sand Lake.  If you're on the original Sunrail line, just jump off at one of those stations and pick up the Airport line 15 mins later, and vise versa.

[codypet]

^You........I like the cut of yer gib.