Downtown Orlando Project Discussion

[JRS1]

the view is awesome coming east on I-4 approaching the new interchange at 429, with the Reunion construction to the right and all. 429 and US 192 are a fabulous one-two punch of really nice bridge-work heading into town from the west.

[Fargin]

Noticed on the way to work this morning that they are beginning to demo the houses just north of Lake Ivanhoe on the west side of I-4. Does anyone know when this construction officially begins?

[OrlandoMagic3]

an

[JRS1]

Noticed on the way to work this morning that they are beginning to demo the houses just north of Lake Ivanhoe on the west side of I-4. Does anyone know when this construction officially begins?

what project is this supposed to be?

[Fargin]

what project is this supposed to be?

This is the widening of I-4 that I can't seem to find any detailed description on. The following link contains some info, but all I can really find is the schedule:

- Design complete in 2008

- ROW acquisition now through 2009

- Construction to begin in 2014

I would love to see what type of widening plan they are designing (e.g., 10 lanes with noise walls).

Noise Walls North of Downtown Orlando

[neon9]

This is the widening of I-4 that I can't seem to find any detailed description on. The following link contains some info, but all I can really find is the schedule:

- Design complete in 2008

- ROW acquisition now through 2009

- Construction to begin in 2014

I would love to see what type of widening plan they are designing (e.g., 10 lanes with noise walls).

Noise Walls North of Downtown Orlando

I think it's one extra lane each way for I-4 with a better on ramp for Princeton Street headed West.

[bulldogger]

This is the widening of I-4 that I can't seem to find any detailed description on. The following link contains some info, but all I can really find is the schedule:

- Design complete in 2008

- ROW acquisition now through 2009

- Construction to begin in 2014

I would love to see what type of widening plan they are designing (e.g., 10 lanes with noise walls).

Noise Walls North of Downtown Orlando

Why the gap between 2009 and 2014?

Is that to give time to get the commuter rail underway? Is it a funding issue?

Edited January 3, 2007 by bulldogger

[neon9]

Why the gap between 2009 and 2014?

Is that to give time to get the commuter rail underway? Is it a funding issue?

I would guess so. FDOT is scrambling for money to start projects that should have already broke ground. SR 50 improvements near Good Homes Road is an example, pushed out to at least 2008 now.

[markusparkus]

Well, with the addition of two lanes in each direction I-4 will be at least 12 lanes through downtown. If you add in egress lanes in some spots that number rises to 13 or 14. Thats almost the same as I 75/85 through downtown Atlanta.

Yeah, but at least it's just ONE interstate, not two merged together

[bic]

Crotty elected toll-road agency chair

Orange County Mayor Rich Crotty was elected chairman of the region's toll road agency this morning.

Crotty, already a member of the board of the Orlando-Orange County Expressway Authority, was named to replace Allan Keen, who quit as chairman earlier this month after months of controversy that have rocked the agency.

Crotty, whose selection came in a unanimous vote by himself and the three remaining board members, said he would serve as chairman only a year and that his first priority was restoring public trust in the agency.

Keen said "false allegations" made by the agency's former marketing consultant made it impossible for him to remain on the authority, which collects $200 million a year in tolls and is planning about $1 billion in construction over the next five years.

The disclosure last year that Keen authorized a payment to toll opponent Doug Guetzloe triggered a series of investigations and audits that remain underway.

It is not known when Gov. Charlie Crist will replace Keen and authority board member Arthur Lee. Lee, whose term ended earlier this month, attended today's meeting and can serve until he is replaced. Keen did not attend today's meeting but sent a letter in which he listed the authority's achievements under his tenure.

OrlandoSentinel.com

[i_cre8]

I've always thought that part of the problem with Orlando traffic is there are only a few "express" ways to get anywhere. I mean, you look at Atlanta -- you've got downtown as sort of the center of a wheel, and all these expressways going off in every direction, kind of spoke-like. And I'm not proposing that we attempt to pave our way out of traffic. In fact, what we definitely need is better mass transit. Even better than roads, would be light rail lines running off in every direction from our own downtown, but at least in the short term, we all know how likely that is to come to fruition.

Nonetheless, and admittedly, this is a little far-fetched, but I've always thought that one remedy for Orlando would be to have an inner beltway in addition to our current "outer" beltway. The GreeneWay and the Western Beltway are great if you're on the far east or west sides of town, but I think to expect someone to actually use either the eastern or western beltway as a means of getting around metro Orlando -- that is to say, to try to avoid the metro if one was travelling from Tampa to Daytona -- is a bit lofty. It is too far out of the way in my opinion. Each leg is, what, 70 miles long? Still, I think an inner beltway would be great for locals simply attempting to get around the core of the metro. We'd all like to see denser development closer to downtown, right?

Anyway, it seems to me that a minimal number of houses would be affected, mostly businesses. And, not being a transportation planner, I don't even know if the logistics would make something like this possible. But, why not convert Semoran/436 from I-4 at Altamonte to an expressway all the way down to the airport? Super tight and compact, perhaps 4 to 6 lines at the absolute most. No median. Interchanges at 17-92, Red Bug, Howell Branch, Aloma, University, Colonial, 408, Curry Ford, Pershing, Hoffner, and the Beach Line. No wide, sweeping interchanges with water features.

Conversely, I could see maybe John Young or a combination of the new Maitland Blvd. Ext and Kirkman Rd. on the westside being converted to expressway. This would be a little tougher, especially the Kirkman/Maitland Blvd. combo. But, again, some sound walls, compact construction, etc., and it seems that a minimal number of existing structures would be affected.

I don't know. Thoughts?

[bobbarker]

Anyway, it seems to me that a minimal number of houses would be affected, mostly businesses. And, not being a transportation planner, I don't even know if the logistics would make something like this possible. But, why not convert Semoran/436 from I-4 at Altamonte to an expressway all the way down to the airport? Super tight and compact, perhaps 4 to 6 lines at the absolute most. No median. Interchanges at 17-92, Red Bug, Howell Branch, Aloma, University, Colonial, 408, Curry Ford, Pershing, Hoffner, and the Beach Line. No wide, sweeping interchanges with water features.

While it would be convenient, it would also force hundreds of businesses to close and put tens of thousands of people out of jobs. I am afraid to even fathom how much this would cost.

[prahaboheme]

^This could work for John Young, is it incredibly wide already and aside from the turnpike, the quickest and most direct route between the Northern and Southern parts of town. I could see this turning into an expressway just North of the Hunters Creek area extending up to I-4 with exits at intersections. This is a common practice in the Northeast on roads much more thickly settled and it seems to work pretty well.

[mrh3]

That was the original plan folks. I think that to much time passed and the cost made it prohibitive. Now 436 and John Young are "Urban Expressways." This shows what lack of foresight does to a community.

[prahaboheme]

That was the original plan folks. I think that to much time passed and the cost made it prohibitive. Now 436 and John Young are "Urban Expressways." This shows what lack of foresight does to a community.

It is not really too late, they are not that densely settled. Rt 9 and Rt 1 in Boston were turned into expressways long after they were built up to the point of total congestion. Not that I think Orlando would ever have the foresight, but it is still possible.

[bic]

At the very least, some express lanes should be made along the 436 route from MCO to the 408 to provide a direct link from the airport to downtown.

[bobbarker]

It is not really too late, they are not that densely settled. Rt 9 and Rt 1 in Boston were turned into expressways long after they were built up to the point of total congestion. Not that I think Orlando would ever have the foresight, but it is still possible.

Not densely settled? Are we talking about the same road? 436 is lined with businesses from the Airport to well past 434. I'm all for foresight, but it would be like turning 17-92 into an expressway.

[sunshine]

We need a light rail going from downtown to I-drive then to the airport. It will help downtown development and definitely help release traffic on Idrive. I remember reading the cost to build the line from downtown to I-drive is like 1 billions.

Any chance that the residents would vote to increase taxes by a penny to build that?

[neon9]

Nonetheless, and admittedly, this is a little far-fetched, but I've always thought that one remedy for Orlando would be to have an inner beltway in addition to our current "outer" beltway. The GreeneWay and the Western Beltway are great if you're on the far east or west sides of town, but I think to expect someone to actually use either the eastern or western beltway as a means of getting around metro Orlando -- that is to say, to try to avoid the metro if one was travelling from Tampa to Daytona -- is a bit lofty. It is too far out of the way in my opinion. Each leg is, what, 70 miles long? Still, I think an inner beltway would be great for locals simply attempting to get around the core of the metro. We'd all like to see denser development closer to downtown, right?

Anyway, it seems to me that a minimal number of houses would be affected, mostly businesses. And, not being a transportation planner, I don't even know if the logistics would make something like this possible. But, why not convert Semoran/436 from I-4 at Altamonte to an expressway all the way down to the airport? Super tight and compact, perhaps 4 to 6 lines at the absolute most. No median. Interchanges at 17-92, Red Bug, Howell Branch, Aloma, University, Colonial, 408, Curry Ford, Pershing, Hoffner, and the Beach Line. No wide, sweeping interchanges with water features.

Conversely, I could see maybe John Young or a combination of the new Maitland Blvd. Ext and Kirkman Rd. on the westside being converted to expressway. This would be a little tougher, especially the Kirkman/Maitland Blvd. combo. But, again, some sound walls, compact construction, etc., and it seems that a minimal number of existing structures would be affected.

I don't know. Thoughts?

I don't know if you can even call it a beltway if it is a toll road. I could name off dozens of cities I've driven through where they have at least half a loop, and generally they say that thru traffic, and almost always hazardous cargo, has to go around the central city.

Why this hasn't been thought to be a good idea in Orlando is beyond me. Hell they ought to charge money to go thru Orlando considering the tourist traffic, or at least make the 'fast track' toll lanes mentioned at one time. ...I was just going to say make the beltway free, but I would hope that doesn't encourange more sprawl :-)

Maybe some inner expressways would work, in some areas. JYP is a good idea and I think making it limited access is in the cards. But on most roads I think it might kill a lot of businesses. Maybe the right of way that is there would be better used for mass transit....at least in some cases.

Edited January 25, 2007 by neon9

[prahaboheme]

Not densely settled? Are we talking about the same road? 436 is lined with businesses from the Airport to well past 434. I'm all for foresight, but it would be like turning 17-92 into an expressway.

No, we are not talking about the same road. Go back and read again. I've been speaking specifically about JYP.

Edited January 25, 2007 by prahaboheme

[bobbarker]

No, we are not talking about the same road. Go back and read again. I've been speaking specifically about JYP.

OK, that makes MUCH more sense. I try to avoid that mess of a road if it all possible.

[mrh3]

I don't know if you can even call it a beltway if it is a toll road. I could name off dozens of cities I've driven through where they have at least half a loop, and generally they say that thru traffic, and almost always hazardous cargo, has to go around the central city.

Why this hasn't been thought to be a good idea in Orlando is beyond me. Hell they ought to charge money to go thru Orlando considering the tourist traffic, or at least make the 'fast track' toll lanes mentioned at one time. ...I was just going to say make the beltway free, but I would hope that doesn't encourange more sprawl :-)

Maybe some inner expressways would work, in some areas. JYP is a good idea and I think making it limited access is in the cards. But on most roads I think it might kill a lot of businesses. Maybe the right of way that is there would be better used for mass transit....at least in some cases.

Back in the days of Ike, when the Interstate Expressway came along and most of $$$ was doled out for the I-495, I-275, and I-405's of the nation, the population demanded it. Orlando didn't. Hence subsequent expressway building has fallen on to the States. Expressways are in Chicago, Massachusetts, New Jersey, Pennsylvannia, etc... Bottom line is Orlando just entered the game after the Federal funding shifted.

[JRS1]

I like i_cre8's ideas. Generally, I say pave everything over.

In this case the most feasible thing that I can see is to turn JYP into an expressway from I-4 north to 441. From there, elevate up and over towards a link-up to Kennedy and then due east to I-4. THere is nothing but CRAP on Kennedy, and some space. It could work, but the folks in Eatonville will be ticked off. It can become a sort of downtown bypass, it really could work.

[gibby]

JYP is nearly a limited access road already from I-4 to Colonial. There was some talk a year or two ago about an overpass over Colonial. I thought it was funded already too. The section from 441 to I-4 would be nearly impossible to fix though.

[orlandonative]

Completely unrelated , but it seems the layout for the East Toll Plaza on 408 is well underway. These highspeed tolls are so necessary, they make going through tolls less like getting robbed by an unorganized, money grubbing, corrupt expressway authority. And more like a nice morning on the Autobahn, once complete my only concern will be "did I spill coffee on myself as I breezed through that toll at a buck fity?" "Damn I did"