Downtown Orlando Project Discussion

[cwetteland]

I think the 408 and I-4 create barriers that are too much to overcome - even in the largest cities, freeways/underpasses stop pedestrian progress in their tracks.  For the time being, the  central "business" district - meaning office space I presume - is fairly locked into the region east of I-4 and north of the 408.  That said, there is still plenty of space right there (the CNL area, the surface lots left on Orange, the Capital Plaza 3 area, the Rida Development - just that real estate alone is probably more than I can honestly imagine ever filling with downtown office space in Orlando) 

Agreed.  There is quite a bit of open space remaining before the CBD shifts.  Yesterday I made a round trip from Daytona to St. Pete, passing through Tampa and Orlando twice.  A friend in the car pointed out that the 2 cities were so much alike.  I responded that while Tampa has some taller buildings, Orlando's CBD had a tighter cluster; and that's even before those open holes are plugged.  And that doesn't include 3 relatively tall non-office projects planned for the CBD (university club, DPAC hotel, and Hyatt Place).  I'm just saying that when and if Orlando explodes (in a good way) that I see a jump to Creative before it moves south on Orange or west on Church.

[jrs2]

Orlando is so different though from Tampa.  Their city blocks are smaller; more urban.  It's like going from Central to Wall St. here, except you don't see that small distance much at all.  For whatever reason, in Orlando, the blocks are so huge and things are so much more spread out.

[Kaz]

In my mind church street is the center of downtown. It connects to both sides of I4 including three of the four venues, sunrail, suntrust tower, chase tower and entertainment options.

[alex]

Historically, the center was Orange Ave and Central Blvd (as the name implies), since Central is where avenues downtown change North/South.  Trend-wise, I would say the city is shifting west, since N/W/S are growing quickly--but not the east side so much, mostly due to historic Thornton Park.

 

Because of the physical barriers that were talked about and the more far-flung projects (Ivanhoe, Mills Park, Creative Village), I think Orlando should continue with its neighborhoods or districts approach.  I think it's actually pretty cool that a city our size has quite a few neighborhoods, each with a unique character. 

[prahaboheme]

^I would agree with this completely.  I think the focus should not be placed in expansion of the CBD say westward into Parramore, but rather, expand Parramore outward from it's historic center along Parramore Avenue, and hone in on what makes Parramore architecturally and regionally important.  Eventually, as these two areas bleed into one another, we will at least have defined districts in place.  The alternative is urban renewal, and that has never worked.

Edited January 30, 2015 by prahaboheme

[Boomer136]

I don't see the 408 as much of a barrier any more than the El in Chicago is. Again, increasing the shoreline land on Lake Lucerne and tying that with under the 408 parkspace into the area around the DPCPA and City Hall no real barrier, especially as the 408 is much higher than the I-4 "bridge district".

[cwetteland]

I don't see the 408 as much of a barrier any more than the El in Chicago is. Again, increasing the shoreline land on Lake Lucerne and tying that with under the 408 parkspace into the area around the DPCPA and City Hall no real barrier, especially as the 408 is much higher than the I-4 "bridge district".

I read somewhere that with the I-4 ultimate, the overpasses will be both higher and wider.  There are focus committees working with designers to enhance the pedestrian experience.  I also, think they are being designed in such a way that they don't offer any elevated sleeping for homeless.  

 

Also as part of I-4 ultimate they are rebuilding the main 408 - i-4 overpass which might incorporate new pedestrian-friendly design elements.

[jgardnerucf]

I read somewhere that with the I-4 ultimate, the overpasses will be both higher and wider.  There are focus committees working with designers to enhance the pedestrian experience.  I also, think they are being designed in such a way that they don't offer any elevated sleeping for homeless.  

 

Also as part of I-4 ultimate they are rebuilding the main 408 - i-4 overpass which might incorporate new pedestrian-friendly design elements.

 

bunks, showers, and mini fridges will be incorporated to the elite camp under I4/408 in the ultimate makeover campaign.

[RedStar25]

It's a former County Mayor who is still very active with the city and county. 

 

And again I'll say they want to make Orange Ave the "Trunk" of a urban tree. The city will expand west into Parramore, North, South, and east. However, they are starting to focus on how to make South Orange Ave. a greater part of the city.  Since I basically live on South Orange Ave. I am all for this!  

[Jernigan]

Richard Crotty Consulting was the firm tasked with starting up the Downtown South NID.

[cwetteland]

So, a little birdie told me the center of downtown is going to shift towards DPAC; building up south orange ave (the Lucerne development). 

I currently think there really isn't a center to downtown and I see City Commons and DPAC being set up as a natural choice. 

 

Basically I was told to think of Orange Ave as the trunk of a tree with large urban areas branching off from it. Areas such as: Creative Village, Uptown, the Magic Complex, Lucerne, etc... and SODO would actually be considered part of downtown at the end. 

RedStar, I'm not doubting you or your little birdie, and I don't care who your little birdie is, but I am curious as to whom, operationally, is executing this master plan, and how.  Who are "they" and how do they influence this shift?  How will they entice private entities to build south of 408 when all the prime locations are north of the 408?  How is this being planned outside of the "sunshine" of public meetings?

[bulldogger]

If Crotty is involved, I would bet he has property in there.

[jack]

The 408 and Lake Lucerne will prohibit southern expansion for a long time. The natural progression is north. More properties to develop and no natural boundaries. 

[popsiclebrandon]

With Creative Village and all the other buildings going north the natural progression is and has been to go North. That won't stop as basically Ivanhoe is growing into the core now.

[prahaboheme]

I think the 408 is more psychologically anti-pedestrian than the I-4 underpass (despite generally being in a safer section of downtown on most days / nights).  The reason for this is because points west of I-4 into Parramore maintain the integrity of the street grid, making it easier to extend the urban grid westward, and thus making the pedestrian trek west of the CBD occur seamlessly.

 

To get to Downtown South, you must first overcome:

 

1) Anderson / Orange or Rosalind /Orange intersections - pick the lesser of two evils.

2) The 408

3) Lake Lucerne - OK, so this isn't really a barrier, in fact it is quite nice, however, without significant purpose Lake Lucerne acts to extend your journey south of the CBD.  The Lucerne development should go a long way to bring more purpose to the Lake Lucerne area (not a drive-thru, but a destination!).

4) And last but CERTAINTLY not least, Orange Ave through Downtown South is a pedestrian nightmare.

 

And then, once you are in Downtown South, do you know you are there? 

Edited February 3, 2015 by prahaboheme

[FLClarkKent]

A little love for one of the See Art Orlando installations on CNN.

 

http://www.cnn.com/videos/tv/2015/01/28/spc-art-movement-wind-scultures.cnn

[aent]

408 has few bridges to even get over/under it. 408 would need to be reconstructed to be elevated like i4, and considering how recently we had the improvements to 408, its very unlikely

[alex]

408 has few bridges to even get over/under it. 408 would need to be reconstructed to be elevated like i4, and considering how recently we had the improvements to 408, its very unlikely

 

I live in Colonialtown North and work just on the other side of 408.  Even though it would only be a three-mile bike ride, I almost never do it.  If I want to ride my bike on the street my only options are Orange, Summerlin, and Mills. For pedestrians or if I wanted to ride on the sidewalk, you could add Rosalind.  

 

Not only are the wobbly brick streets hard to navigate on a bike, those four options to go under 408 are pretty hectic during rush hour. They've done some pedestrian improvements at the intersections (especially Rosalind, due to the Arts Center), but in terms of cycling in traffic, it's more than most people want to deal with on their way to work. 

[jrs2]

A little love for one of the See Art Orlando installations on CNN.

 

http://www.cnn.com/videos/tv/2015/01/28/spc-art-movement-wind-scultures.cnn

that was awesome.  Ralfonso, the Swiss kinetic sculptor.  He has other similar type sculptures around the globe.  Gives ORL some good public art stret cred.  I'd like a Picasso here as well.

[smileguy]

that was awesome.  Ralfonso, the Swiss kinetic sculptor.  He has other similar type sculptures around the globe.  Gives ORL some good public art stret cred.  I'd like a Picasso here as well.

 

CFAM has Picasso in their collection, I believe. 

[jrs2]

^^

I also wouldn't mind a sculpture from Alexander Calder, like the one at the Chicago federal center... the Flamingo.  He's also got one in LA as well similar to that, the Four Arches at the BOA Center.

Edited February 4, 2015 by jrs2

[smileguy]

We have a (rather important) Ronald Bladen at the Federal courtyard, but it's hidden behind the building in a fenced-off courtyard. 

[jrs2]

We have a (rather important) Ronald Bladen at the Federal courtyard, but it's hidden behind the building in a fenced-off courtyard. 

yeah, I like that one.  Host of the Ellipse.  I guess this piece was in Baltimore at their SSA building and then removed and stored, then shipped down here.  He has cool stuff around the globe.

Edited February 4, 2015 by jrs2

[smonteserin]

We have a (rather important) Ronald Bladen at the Federal courtyard, but it's hidden behind the building in a fenced-off courtyard. 

Don't stay within the fence past 5pm on purpose or by accident. Had an aggressive verbal run in with a guard there, erroneously thinking that it was a public park. The security guards there assume that you are vagrant or criminal.

Edited February 5, 2015 by smonteserin

[Jernigan]

Applicant seeking to open up windows for retail in the Valencia building on Church and Orange. From the HPB report: