Downtown Orlando Project Discussion

[AndyPok1]

I'm a fan of one way streets, so I like that Anderson and South are one way on each side of the highway.  That's a standard setup in virtually every city.

I do like the flyover directly to Magnolia/Anderson, but as others said, it'd be going right through The Grande, and doesn't really solve many problems.

[prahaboheme]

Two way streets were converted into one-way streets by traffic engineers beginning in the 1930s to address traffic congestion and flow.  The theory was based on getting automobiles THROUGH town as quickly as possible rather than getting people INTO town.

Many cities are now going through the painstaking process of reconstructing these same streets to their original form.

 

[AndyPok1]

Two way streets were converted into one-way streets by traffic engineers beginning in the 1930s to address traffic congestion and flow.  The theory was based on getting automobiles THROUGH town as quickly as possible rather than getting people INTO town.

Many cities are now going through the painstaking process of reconstructing these same streets to their original form.

 

And I've heard that many times.  However, I completely disagree with the premise.

As much as I want it to be true, we can't completely eliminate suburbs and exurbs and urban sprawl.  If it was up to me, I'd say live in the urban core, or else you get 0 services.  Your choice.  Then there's nothing but nice 8 lane highways (or even better, buller trains!) through the middle of nowhere connecting giant urban city to the next.

With that being fact, we do have a need to get automobiles through town.  I can't stand trying to get home to 55W and traffic is backed up on Orange for 4 blocks.  And that's WITH it being 3 lanes of one-way traffic.  Those people aren't staying, they just want to get on the highway and leave.  Let's get them where they want to go as fast as possible.

Edited August 26, 2015 by AndyPok1

[prahaboheme]

I'm not sure a claim was made to eliminate suburbs, exurbs, or sprawl.  

Let's focus on aggressively restoring pockets of urbanity in the areas of Orlando that have the ability to provide for a pedestrian lifestyle.  Orlando is hardly a trailblazer in that effort (still better than our Florida counterparts, however).

[HankStrong]

Two way streets were converted into one-way streets by traffic engineers beginning in the 1930s to address traffic congestion and flow.  The theory was based on getting automobiles THROUGH town as quickly as possible rather than getting people INTO town.

Many cities are now going through the painstaking process of reconstructing these same streets to their original form.

 

I'm not downtown every day like many of you, but my wife is and when I am I think getting through downtown is pretty important.  There are clogs everywhere down there. 

You get people INTO downtown OUTSIDE of downtown.  While they are IN downtown, you want them to get wherever they want as fast as they can.

[prahaboheme]

Strong urban cores are designed from the inside and extend outward.  

[AndyPok1]

I'm not sure a claim was made to eliminate suburbs, exurbs, or sprawl.  

Let's focus on aggressively restoring pockets of urbanity in the areas of Orlando that have the ability to provide for a pedestrian lifestyle.  Orlando is hardly a trailblazer in that effort (still better than our Florida counterparts, however).

I'm making that claim.  

With the exception of my office on Kirkman/I-Drive, I basically walk or bike everywhere.  I really don't see the pedestrian issues that so many people complain about.  You can be both pedestrian friendly and efficient for automobiles.  They aren't competing priorities.

[gibby]

Cars flood through South Eola to get to Summerlin to get to Anderson to get on the 408.  That's because there's not an effective entrance ramp for downtown workers who need to go eastbound on the 408.  This creates huge pedestrian issues in South Eola.

[Boomer136]

I see Andypok1's point as it is in line with my thinking. First, we want a vibrant downtown scene with retail and not just an evening bar culture. Then we make it difficult for people who are unable to live downtown to get downtown. So you kill the first idea with the second.

You make things too much of a hassle and people won't do it unless that thing is the only game in town, and even then, if the hassle is big enough some will switch games. 

[gibby]

I see Andypok1's point as it is in line with my thinking. First, we want a vibrant downtown scene with retail and not just an evening bar culture. Then we make it difficult for people who are unable to live downtown to get downtown. So you kill the first idea with the second.

You make things too much of a hassle and people won't do it unless that thing is the only game in town, and even then, if the hassle is big enough some will switch games. 

The main point of my proposal is to get people into and out of downtown more effectively.

[jack]

You can convert one way streets into two way and not sacrifice traffic flow greatly. Personally, I hate one way streets. Especially if I am visiting a new city. 

[prahaboheme]

I'm making that claim.  

With the exception of my office on Kirkman/I-Drive, I basically walk or bike everywhere.  I really don't see the pedestrian issues that so many people complain about.  You can be both pedestrian friendly and efficient for automobiles.  They aren't competing priorities.

I agree with you that we must prioritize for pedestrians as well as drivers.

We have a bit of a reputation:  http://www.nbcnews.com/business/autos/orlando-americas-most-dangerous-place-pedestrians-study-n113311

[AndyPok1]

I agree with you that we must prioritize for pedestrians as well as drivers.

We have a bit of a reputation:  http://www.nbcnews.com/business/autos/orlando-americas-most-dangerous-place-pedestrians-study-n113311

Personally I ignore any studies that compare cities.  Pedestrian accidents from people crossing Semoran does not impact the Orlando urban core.  Also, ever look at the city of Orlando on a map?  So an accident at Michigan and Bumby would count, but Kaley and Bumby wouldn't.  This will always hurt Orlando's per population numbers when you have other cities who went annex crazy like Columbus, OH which is basically the entire county.  On a CITY basis, they have over triple the population, but half the density.  Of course our pedestrian numbers are going to be bad.

[gibby]

That study was done based on the metro area not the city limits.

[HankStrong]

Strong urban cores are designed from the inside and extend outward.

It doesn't change the fact that you have to effectively get people into downtown from the outside instead of it just being this random spot of the highway.

[prahaboheme]

Expansion of rail and other transit alternatives must be a part of any plan to move people through a city efficiently.  

[HankStrong]

100% agreed

[cwetteland]

Thornton Park brownstones broke ground after the Sevens.

The Sevens broke in November.  According to OBJ Brownstones was to have broken in October.  Suffice it to say, nothing downtown this year, with the exception of Ace (a two-story referb).  OBJ did say Citi would break this summer (better hurry).  Developer of The Yard said they hoped November if they got their MPB approval (which they did), so we'll see. I would expect the stadium to go vertical in the next few months after last year's groundbreaking. The Magic Entertainment Complex was supposed to break this summer, but they went back to the drawing board once they worked the deal to relocate the mission rescue.  That move is going slower than expected, and the most recent reports say, it'll break after the upcoming basketball season (next summer).  The good news is OPD HQ should be about done by then, so they could possibly build the Magic Complex phases 1 and 2.

I'm just impatient.  The quantity, if not quality, of all the proposed downtown developments are great, but I want to see some cranes.

Edited August 29, 2015 by cwetteland

[Boomer136]

Looks like the hole formerly known as the round building is now filled and graded sand seems to welcome a sodding soon.

[RedStar25]

Looks like the hole formerly known as the round building is now filled and graded sand seems to welcome a sodding soon.

And hopefully CNL III

[Jernigan]

Dunkin Donuts is coming to Citrus Center.  One building over from Starbucks.

[mcn11]

Dunkin Donuts is coming to Citrus Center.  One building over from Starbucks.

That place will do a great business. Hopefully they're going to be open on weekends!

Crazy that we have a major national brand opening two new spaces in downtown almost simultaneously.

[Jernigan]

I think it's crazy that it's taken this long!  I know we are all downtown homers here, but seriously - DD was a no brainer.  Who buys a box of scones for the office before a meeting?   They buy a dozen donuts.  Residential business is just gravy 

Edited September 10, 2015 by Jernigan

[AndyPok1]

That's awesome!  I was excited about the one in Central Station, but Citrus Center is 10x closer!

[FLClarkKent]

Interesting story in today's OBJ about a possible redevelopment of an older office building near the intersection of South and Rosalind. OBJ linked to the developer's proposal, which had some interesting tidbits, including the revelation that Walgreen's and Ruth's Chris looked at redeveloping the site before the Great Recession. 

 

http://media.bizj.us/view/img/6949042/downtown-high-rise-opp.pdf