Downtown Orlando Project Discussion

[mcn11]

Do you have more information on this sale?

Not much - here's the site: https://app.crowdstreet.com/properties/show/100-east-pine-st/

I've always thought this space would be perfect for a chipotle. A chipotle downtown would make bank. If only I could open one myself.

Per Bungalower, Washington and Summerlin will be getting a traffic signal.

Its needed I guess but I wish they weren't going with a mast arm.  No reason for drivers to be looking towards the sky at that intersection even while stopped 

This will be nice. In my experience, only about half the cars actually yield to pedestrians.

I'd really like to see a pedestrian crossing like what is currently at this site at Central and Eola. So many people cross there as there's no crossing for what seems like a third of a mile. It's also a main entrance to the park and close to the playground and farmers market. Something needs to go there.

[nite owℓ]

43 minutes ago, mcn11 said:

I've always thought this space would be perfect for a chipotle. A chipotle downtown would make bank. If only I could open one myself.

 

Agreed, let's crowdfund the franchise lol. There are 3 restaurants I'd like to see downtown; Chipotle preferably as the ground floor component of the upcoming highrise on the corner of Rosalind and Central, Cheesecake Factory on Orange Ave on the vacant Central Station lot, and McDonalds on that vacant lot on Orange & Pine across from Tanqueray's.

[mcn11]

Mcdonalds would also make a ton of money if they stayed open late. I also think a NY style Chinese restaurant that was open until 4 am would make a lot of money. Nothing soaks up alcohol like some general tso chicken.

Really I'm just glad to see something going on in that space. Once you get past magnolia, pine basically dies. Anything there will at least bring some life to the street.

[popsiclebrandon]

Late night Chinese buffet downtown would take all my money.

[dcluley98]

If we are talking fast food - Chick-Fil-A yo, Chick-Fil-A!

[John Hargrove]

Del Taco or Chick-Fil-A would basically bankrupt me. But it would be fine because I will have died from the heart failure and whatnot.

[Nick@Night]

Wasn't there a late night Chinese place where Beth's is now or am I miss remembering that? Regarding the traffic light, would a simple two-way or all-way stop sign not suffice?

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[nite owℓ]

On 1/6/2016 at 9:57 AM, Jernigan said:

Per Bungalower, Washington and Summerlin will be getting a traffic signal.

Its needed I guess but I wish they weren't going with a mast arm.  No reason for drivers to be looking towards the sky at that intersection even while stopped 

I wish the city would have engaged the public first, and quite a few comments on Bungalower are against a traffic light. A four way stop would have given priority to pedestrians & help ease the vehicular confusion at that intersection. Now pedestrians will be forced to wait until the light completes it's cycle as cars stream through. Why would the city prioritize cars in one of downtown's most pedestrian friendly neighborhoods?

[jack]

I think they could have left it as is. Traffic is too heavy on Summerlin for a 4 way at rush hour. This seems to help drivers  on Washington vs anyone else. 

[aent]

3 hours ago, nite owℓ said:

I wish the city would have engaged the public first, and quite a few comments on Bungalower are against a traffic light. A four way stop would have given priority to pedestrians & help ease the vehicular confusion at that intersection. Now pedestrians will be forced to wait until the light completes it's cycle as cars stream through. Why would the city prioritize cars in one of downtown's most pedestrian friendly neighborhoods?

The signal is going to include an all-pedestrian phase.. that is the only way to reduce the vehiclar confusion. Nobody knows who should go at 4 way stops.

[popsiclebrandon]

That intersection works just fine now. The traffic buildup in that area is only going to get worse now and make it longer for peds to cross. Dumb idea. Personally I'd rather have one at Eola and Robinson but that is just because I make a left there a lot and it is very dangerous. I know it really isn't needed or helpful to most people.

[JFW657]

Small pedestrian bridge.

Much more expensive I know, but more appropriate.

 

 

[metal93]

On 1/8/2016 at 2:11 PM, aent said:

The signal is going to include an all-pedestrian phase.. that is the only way to reduce the vehiclar confusion. Nobody knows who should go at 4 way stops.

It's not even funny how many people I come across while driving that don't understand how 4-way stop signs work. Even worse are the ones at 3-way stop signs who are on the lane that is supposed to keep going and yet they stop as if there is an invisible stop sign there. The 4-way stop at Summerlin and Washington sounds nice but it'll be too confusing for most people. Otherwise the intersection is fine just they way it is.

But glad to hear there will be an all-pedestrian phase if there is really a need for a traffic light. With an all-pedestrian phase they might as well go all out and do diagonal crosswalks too, like this:

 

Edited January 10, 2016 by metal93
formatting

[JFW657]

Would be nice if they would just block off all vehicular traffic between the Summerlin side entrance to that office building on the corner of Central, on up to Jefferson St right behind Howard Middle School, and make it a pedestrian mall.

Detour all north - south traffic over to Mills.

Eventually widen the sidewalks, put in trees and planters, etc and tie the entire area into Eola Park.

Or maybe just block the traffic off at nights and on weekends, maybe.

 

[aent]

2 hours ago, metal93 said:

It's not even funny how many people I come across while driving that don't understand how 4-way stop signs work.

TBH, I'm not quite sure how they are supposed to work. If there are a bunch of cars at the intersection, and people are all going straight, they should alternate, allowing 2 to go at a time. But if someone wants to turn, how in the world are we supposed to know whether the person turning is going to go first, or if the one going straight should go first? And then does the other miss their turn as its now supposed to go to the right (and left simultaneously if they're going straight/making a right)? 4 way stops just confuse everyone... they're too inefficient to work even if everyone did understand the rules. I've never seen an intersection where a 4 way stop made sense... either take out 2 of the stop signs and make it a 2 way stop on the minor street, or go for a roundabout or signalized intersection. Anything but a 4 way.

[Jernigan]

The frustrating thing to me is the claim that this is being done for ped safety.   This is one of the few intersections in the city where pedestrians generally rule and drivers concede that they are relatively out of place and don't generally try to make it through Washington before the ped can cross.

The "problems" we do have that I've observed is delays if you are on Washington and traffic is heavy on Summerlin.... instances where drivers on Summerlin stop as if there was a 4-way stop....and instances where drivers on Summerlin stop for peds and a car on Washington shoots out late in the game when the ped is gone and the driver on Summerlin is about to go (without having to wait for the other cars at stop sign)

Generally none of these lend themselves to ped safety issues and if anything putting a mast arm light up high will take drivers eyes away from the street.  

Lets be honest - the result will be peds crossing 50 feet before or after the light 

 

[JFW657]

2 hours ago, aent said:

TBH, I'm not quite sure how they are supposed to work. If there are a bunch of cars at the intersection, and people are all going straight, they should alternate, allowing 2 to go at a time. But if someone wants to turn, how in the world are we supposed to know whether the person turning is going to go first, or if the one going straight should go first? And then does the other miss their turn as its now supposed to go to the right (and left simultaneously if they're going straight/making a right)? 4 way stops just confuse everyone... they're too inefficient to work even if everyone did understand the rules. I've never seen an intersection where a 4 way stop made sense... either take out 2 of the stop signs and make it a 2 way stop on the minor street, or go for a roundabout or signalized intersection. Anything but a 4 way.

The rule is that the traffic on the left must yield to the traffic on the right.

If there is somebody at the stop sign to your right, then you are on their left and as such, you are required to let them go first.

 

[John Hargrove]

59 minutes ago, JFW657 said:

The rule is that the traffic on the left must yield to the traffic on the right.

If there is somebody at the stop sign to your right, then you are on their left and as such, you are required to let them go first.

 

At a busy intersection the state of "there is a driver to my right" is true for all drivers and the logic falls apart. Eventually it just becomes:

1. First come first serve, or
2. The driver opposite you is next and they are not crossing your path, so take the open path. 

It's not scientific. Can't wait for a driverless road. Can't come soon enough. 

[JFW657]

56 minutes ago, castorvx said:

At a busy intersection the state of "there is a driver to my right" is true for all drivers and the logic falls apart. Eventually it just becomes:

1. First come first serve, or
2. The driver opposite you is next and they are not crossing your path, so take the open path. 

It's not scientific. Can't wait for a driverless road. Can't come soon enough. 

At perpendicular or intersecting paths of travel, there is always one driver to the other's right and vice versa.

If Mr West is driving west and comes to a four way stop at the same time as Mr North who is driving north, Mr North is to the left of Mr West and Mr West is to the right of Mr North. 

Mr North being on the left, yields to Mr West, because Mr West is on Mr North's right.

Confused enough yet? 

The same situation would hold true with two drivers traveling south vs east. 

And of course, there is no ROW issue between drivers traveling in opposite directions ( N vs S and E vs W) because they aren't crossing in front of one another. 

Works perfectly if followed. 

 

[nite owℓ]

On 1/8/2016 at 2:11 PM, aent said:

The signal is going to include an all-pedestrian phase.. that is the only way to reduce the vehiclar confusion. Nobody knows who should go at 4 way stops.

Sorry, but a traffic light (even with a pedestrian phase) is overkill. I imagine most pedestrians are still going to cross at their own convenience rather than wait for the light to cycle through. 4 way stops really aren't that hard to figure out, and making it "official" would ease the minds of drivers who unnecessarily pause there anyway. I assume the city is modifying this intersection in anticipation of future traffic generated by all the new S Eola developments, otherwise none of this makes any sense to me.

4 way stops work well when people are familiar with using them. For example, New York & W Lyman Ave; it's an incredibly awkward & visibly obscured intersection (at one point it even had 5 egress points) combined with railroad & pedestrian crossings. Everyone survives just fine... and drivers new to the area learn quick enough lol.

[popsiclebrandon]

If they re-time the lights all down Summerlin this would be ok. The whole area has such bad lights that just clog the roads.

[smonteserin]

I know that Orlando hasn't yet embraced traffic circles, but in many cities and closer to us, in Gainesville, Fl around there downtown neighborhoods and the University, traffic circles do the job of slowing it down and helping to keep the intersection flowing.  I imagine that a circle would not work at Summerlin and Washington, but would work at the Central and Summerlin intersection to keep it moving and from backing up as it does at rush hour.  There is enough room to install one there and might do double duty in making it safer for pedestrians at that intersection as well as being more attractive and approachable than the way it feels now.

 

[Jernigan]

There's literally a roundabout a few blocks down by Graffiti Junktion.  Surprised a complimentary one wasn't considered 

[Jernigan]

Per Growthspotter, the Tribune and Stiles Redevelopment broke up in November and the Sentinel site will be up for sale

[dcluley98]

That might good news, Jernigan.  That massing siteplan for the Sentinel property was pretty underwhelming.  It would not be good if the land is abandoned and vacant for a long time, but a better overall development plan for that area in part of the core DT would be a benefit in the long run.