Downtown Orlando Project Discussion

[FLClarkKent]

45 minutes ago, alex said:

Speaking to the southeast quadrant of your map:

My in-laws live on Vine Street, just off Bumby. In that area, the feel changes a lot from street to street. They live on a street that looks like it must have been a nicer development in the '70s (first-ring suburbs) and most people still do a nice job keeping up their yards. Other streets around there have older-looking homes (1930s - '60s) in varying states of upkeep. Bumby and Primrose are nice two-lane streets in those areas. Helping the in-laws search for a house, we saw a lot of bigger houses (compared to the neighborhoods closer to downtown) at great prices that just need some TLC. I could see this area being renovated by young families sometime soon. 

That section's "main street" is Curry Ford (labeled as State Hwy 526 A on the map) with grocery stores (Clemen's Produce), businesses, bars (Rogue Pub), some good restaurants (ZaZa's, La Fiesta, Theo's), and now a brewery (Ocean Sun). Heading west, it turns into a two-lane brick road with older businesses and houses, ending in the very nice Lancaster Park neighborhood. I've always felt that this section of Curry Ford could benefit from some "Orlando Main Street" help to show off all the great businesses and improve non-automobile travel. The area also has a nice civic feel to it, with Boone High School, the upcoming Lake Como school, and Greenwood Cemetery/Park all mixed into the residential neighborhoods.

I'm not familiar with crime around there, but anecdotally I haven't heard anything and my in-laws regularly go on walks around there. The main drawback for that quadrant is the distance to Downtown. It's too far to walk and still hard to bike, but you can be downtown in an Uber in 10 minutes. Some more urban developments along Curry Ford and Bumby would help give the area more of a self-contained College Park feel.

This area is my 'hood, and I think the Lake Como, Primrose and Crystal Lake neighborhoods are real gems. They're convenient to downtown (not a bad trip by bike), that stretch of Curry Ford is really starting to blossom (great locally owned restaurants, old Orlando institutions like Clemons produce and Charlies bakery, and bars and brewpubs adding to the mix), they're safe, good for young families AND affordable. At least for now. Prices have already gone up considerably since the crash, and I'm seeing more and more houses being rehabbed. But, it's far more affordable than downtown proper.

[JFW657]

That is where I live, too.

Bumby & E. Kaley area.

Been here for nearly twenty years and haven't seen any crime to speak of.

Very quiet.

[nite owℓ]

On 4/6/2016 at 10:05 AM, HankStrong said:

I'm not 100% sure where the official lines for the Bungalows are, but does anyone have any thoughts on living in this section of Orlando?

I've got a friend moving from up North who was looking online at homes in this area.  I've seen good and bad down there, but is the general swing heading up or down here? 

Is this considered Downtown South?  Conway?  Something else?

That's kind of a large swath and there is a lot of character variation from neighborhood to neighborhood. Depending on who you ask, anything south of the 408/South St is considered SODO, but it would be hard for anyone to argue these aren't downtown neighborhoods. Downtown Orlando's zip code is 32801 and it extends down to the upper tip of Lake Davis. In fact, Lake Davis' place marker should clear up any confusion for the naysayers ;). UE & castorvx gave pretty accurate descriptions but they left out the Lake Cherokee and Lake Copeland historic districts; both are well-established, pricier neighborhoods.

Unless you disclose more stats about your friend (e.g. age, buy/rent, single/married, kids/no kids, etc) it's going to be hard to provide personalized feedback so I'll ramble on... I bought my first place in Lake Davis in 2010 when I was in my late 20's. I sorta grew up in College Park, but I decided against buying there because it's too small-townish and family oriented for me. I need something with a downtown-urban vibe, preferably walking distance to Lake Eola, and I prefer established neighborhoods & historic homes over new construction (which is why I also avoided Baldwin Park). I only considered the residential neighborhoods surrounding Lake Eola; Thornton Park, Lawsona, Lake Eola Heights. I made an "exception" for Lake Davis/Lake Cherokee because of the active energy of it's residents and because the neighborhoods were still within walking distance to Lake Eola. You'll always see people walking, running, biking around the various neighborhood parks (Lake Davis park, Lake Cherokee park, Delaney Park, Greenwood Urban Wetlands) or to & from the downtown core. Residents are a mixed bag; renters, home owners, singles, couples, families, old, young, gay, straight, etc. A rated schools, blah blah blah.

"I've seen good and bad down there, but is the general swing heading up or down here?" Upswing IMO. However, the general swing east of Mills just seems too stagnant for me. Properties west of Mills, approaching Summerlin and onward are much nicer and the fixer uppers are either razed or renovated. Since I'm not rich, my general rule of thumb is to buy as close to expensive homes as possible - so for me that meant buying the ugly home in the nicer area along Summerlin. 6 years later and I'm very happy with my purchase especially when I check back on some of the previous options that were within my price range along Mills. Capital improvements in the area include sidewalk additions & repairs, removing asphalt and rebricking Summerlin during storm drainage improvements. Cherokee Park is being used as a temporary construction area as they rebrick the roads so keep that in mind as it is somewhat unsightly. Also, never let higher listing prices deter you - there's always a deal to be had but you just have to be ready to pounce before the investors descend en masse.

Crime is everywhere. I've been receiving automatic crime reports for years and most crime in this area are mostly petty theft & "suspicious person" calls (i.e. there's a homeless guy wandering around). I've had my bike stolen - it was unsecured, but still. One neighbor swore that homeless people rummage through cars looking for change if you leave the doors unlocked at night. Shopping cart guy used to visit all the downtown neighborhoods during trash night and haul away anything left at the curb that could be re-purposed; never intrusive and always asked for permission whenever I saw him in person. Either way, I take it as a part of life when living within the vicinity of downtown. Nothing crazy, although a few random horror stories from ages ago can be unearthed if you dig deep enough. I now live in a condo in the downtown core, but I'm considering moving back into the old place for a little peace & quiet.

Other areas on the upswing: Wadeview Park, Audobon Park, Colonialtown and the Milk District neighborhood next to Colonial Plaza along Bumby. Follow the telltale gentrification breadcrumbs the artists, hipsters, & gays leave behind! lol

Edited April 12, 2016 by nite owℓ

[HankStrong]

Thanks for all of this.  It's neat to hear about the residential projects and not just businesses, so I think most of this is still in line with the theme of the thread.

I'm just going to link him to this page and help out where I can. Stats: DINKs in their late 30s who have an aging family member who will be staying with them at least part of the time.  They want to buy and they want something with character in a neighborhood where you can walk around and not worry too much about getting mugged (crime can happen anywhere, but statistically some places are less likely than others) and not worry that if they leave town for the weekend they are quite likely to have something crazy happen at the house.

 

[orlandoguy]

Thanks for all of this.  It's neat to hear about the residential projects and not just businesses, so I think most of this is still in line with the theme of the thread.

I'm just going to link him to this page and help out where I can. Stats: DINKs in their late 30s who have an aging family member who will be staying with them at least part of the time.  They want to buy and they want something with character in a neighborhood where you can walk around and not worry too much about getting mugged (crime can happen anywhere, but statistically some places are less likely than others) and not worry that if they leave town for the weekend they are quite likely to have something crazy happen at the house.

 

My 'hood is just east of the area in your map ... Dover Shores West. We're a DINK couple in our mid-30s/early-40s and bought our first home 2 years ago. We love the neighborhood but weren't even considering it initially. We love mid-century Florida architecture (and the slightly larger lots and rooms it brings with it compared to the bungalows closer in) but still wanted to be downtown and accessible.

Coming out of renting in College Park for 5 years, we were set on Audubon Park for the shopping district but couldn't find anything in our price range that didn't need a ton of work. Also, the nice houses in AP are nice, but there are just as many not-so-nice houses and that sketched us out a bit.

The neighborhood is still considered downtown ... we're in Patty's district (if barely) and the entire neighborhood rallied last year to be zoned for the new Lake Como K8 since the middle school kids are getting zoned out of Howard. Prices are still reasonable but rising, and we've got two lakes if lakefront living is on your friend's wish list. We don't have an active neighborhood association but everyone is surprisingly well-connected.

I agree with the post about the Curry Ford thoroughfare. It's not pretty but we've had a lot of great businesses move in to complement the longtime institutions like Clemons and Charlie's. And totally agree a little Main St love could really boost the district. Good luck to your friends!

[UngaBungalow]

Hate to be that guy, but "SODO" is the shopping development with the Super Target and Downtown South is the district. They don't have any actual boundary, but Main Streets like that tend to blur their boundaries so they can absorb as much space as possible. I'm loving this thread.

[JFW657]

36 minutes ago, UngaBungalow said:

Hate to be that guy, but "SODO" is the shopping development with the Super Target and Downtown South is the district. They don't have any actual boundary, but Main Streets like that tend to blur their boundaries so they can absorb as much space as possible. I'm loving this thread.

Yeah, I suppose that's true in the most technical sense. But on the other hand, for the past few years around here, we've been getting this free monthly newspaper showing up in our driveways, called "SODO News"...

It covers events, happenings and items of interest pertaining to the entire Downtown South district. They cover Boone High School sports and academic events fairly extensively, too.

I dunno, I think it's fairly safe to use the term "SODO" for the entire district.

Sounds better than downtown South anyway.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[John Hargrove]

"SODO" has more character. Especially since we are now supposed to call Uptown the "North Quarter"? Isn't that a thing?

North Quarter, Downtown, SODO. Boom. 

[UngaBungalow]

haha yeah it's done by the SODO development, but they cover all of Downtown South so that's fair.

North Quarter was coined by the three developers that own most of Uptown, like Ustler. They're both top-down neighborhood naming strategies. 

[bulldogger]

I have always called that western part of the map "Delaney" and never even used "Delaney Park"... although I use Delaney Park for tennis and don't forget about Orlando Shuffle on Saturdays.

[nite owℓ]

Neighborhood map:

 

 

Downtown South main street does have a boundary and I believe this is also what the neighborhood improvement district is based on:

[John Hargrove]

That's a great map. I've been making it a personal challenge to visit something in each of the Orlando neighborhoods. Like, a way to know the city better by having lunch in every little hub. A map like this that shows the whole region would be useful in building a concrete list of places every true Orlandoan must stop by. There are so many little corners/downtowns scattered all over that are basically just a couple of intersections but have a bit of character. Sometimes I just randomly drop a pin in streetview and "drive around" looking at things.

[TRENCH]

Hello, I know this is a bit of a side track but I want to know if  Azalea Park a good neighborhood? Or what neighborhood in Semoran (near Hanging Moss road specifically) is good to live in? I've been in the Oak Ridge/Sky Lake area for the last decade and its time to move out, it has decreased in every sense of the word.  I used to live in Oakridge, and My parents had to sell their house (along like many of other relatives and friends) as the banks wouldn't negotiate (a 5 year battle), thus selling it in a shortsale in 2013.  We've been living on a apartment in Sand Lake Road and we want to live in a totally different area, away from here.  If the stars align, we will be able to buy a house this summer.  Our top priority is moving closer to my dad's job (Hanging Moss Road) and a good elementary/middle school for my sister to attend.  The only downside that I am seeing is that houses everywhere are overpriced, even in Pine Hills .  We just want something affordable and reputable (something that seems to not exist in Orlando except Downtown and Dr. Philips.  If you think otherwise, please tell me lol!)

[JFW657]

22 hours ago, castorvx said:

That's a great map. I've been making it a personal challenge to visit something in each of the Orlando neighborhoods. Like, a way to know the city better by having lunch in every little hub. A map like this that shows the whole region would be useful in building a concrete list of places every true Orlandoan must stop by. There are so many little corners/downtowns scattered all over that are basically just a couple of intersections but have a bit of character. Sometimes I just randomly drop a pin in streetview and "drive around" looking at things.

You might already know about or have already been to these places, but the Winn Dixie shopping center on Curry Ford & Peel has two or three small eating establishments you might be interested in checking out.

One is just a Gabriel's Sub shop, but there's a little place called Theo's Kitchen and I think a place called JJ's Grille. On the east side of the WD, there's a Smokehouse BBQ and a little bar called the Rogue Pub.

You might already know about these places or have even been to them, but if not, you might find them worth checking out. Theo's Kitchen and the BBQ place have been there for a good while, so they must have good food.

 

 

[nite owℓ]

On 4/10/2016 at 11:38 PM, castorvx said:

A map like this that shows the whole region would be useful in building a concrete list of places every true Orlandoan must stop by.

Did you click the link in my post? I took a screenshot of general area we were discussing, but the actual map was larger.

 

10 hours ago, W7edwin said:

Hello, I know this is a bit of a side track but I want to know if  Azalea Park a good neighborhood? Or what neighborhood in Semoran (near Hanging Moss road specifically) is good to live in? I've been in the Oak Ridge/Sky Lake area for the last decade and its time to move out, it has decreased in every sense of the word.  I used to live in Oakridge, and My parents had to sell their house (along like many of other relatives and friends) as the banks wouldn't negotiate (a 5 year battle), thus selling it in a shortsale in 2013.  We've been living on a apartment in Sand Lake Road and we want to live in a totally different area, away from here.  If the stars align, we will be able to buy a house this summer.  Our top priority is moving closer to my dad's job (Hanging Moss Road) and a good elementary/middle school for my sister to attend.  The only downside that I am seeing is that houses everywhere are overpriced, even in Pine Hills .  We just want something affordable and reputable (something that seems to not exist in Orlando except Downtown and Dr. Philips.  If you think otherwise, please tell me lol!)

I don't know much about Azalea Park/Semoran (except that it has been called heroin alley - not sure of the accuracy of the description though), but personally, I'd make safety, overall neighborhood appreciation and good schools a priority over proximity to work. And I'm sure you guys wouldn't want to make the same mistake again by moving into another bad area just because the new house is affordable & easy to buy. Again, I can't say Azalea Park is safe or dangerous, but do lots of research no matter where you buy. Check out spotcrime & http://www.orlandosentinel2.com/data/crime/  for crime info, and you can even talk to police in the area. It's also important to visit and spend time in the neighborhood at various times of the day to get a feel of the place. Listing prices are negotiable and deals in great neighborhoods do pop up every now and then, but you have to be ready. If I allowed high prices to deter me I wouldn't own anything. Where there is a will, there is a way

[jack]

I tell everyone to stick to the Blanker/ Boone school district. Even if you do not have kids, your home value will rise. Sooner or later, someone with a 4 year will be desperate to get into the school district. I see it all the time. Overall, the neighborhoods are nicest west of mills except for Bel Air. Nice neighborhood buy average school district. 

[HankStrong]

We drove all over through here this weekend with a list of places they saw.  The problem is they aren't exactly ready, so those particular houses won't likely be around.

Those neighborhoods are all over the place.  I saw some streets that looked straight out of Deliverance and some that looked just out of a luxury magazine.  There were some streets that were hipsters havens, a few that looked like they belonged in Parramore, one that had a house with fake animals/animal murals on it, overgrown lots, houses that looked like they died 30 years ago, brand new, etc. etc. etc.

It was a little bit of everything.  What a daunting task they have in store.

[nite owℓ]

Yep, that would be an accurate description. The variation from neighborhood to neighborhood can be quite extreme in some areas. Which neighborhoods are they most drawn to?

[prahaboheme]

11 hours ago, HankStrong said:

We drove all over through here this weekend with a list of places they saw.  The problem is they aren't exactly ready, so those particular houses won't likely be around.

Those neighborhoods are all over the place.  I saw some streets that looked straight out of Deliverance and some that looked just out of a luxury magazine.  There were some streets that were hipsters havens, a few that looked like they belonged in Parramore, one that had a house with fake animals/animal murals on it, overgrown lots, houses that looked like they died 30 years ago, brand new, etc. etc. etc.

It was a little bit of everything.  What a daunting task they have in store.

Sounds invigorating. 

[HankStrong]

7 hours ago, nite owℓ said:

Yep, that would be an accurate description. The variation from neighborhood to neighborhood can be quite extreme in some areas. Which neighborhoods are they most drawn to?

No clue, the list of like 6 or 7 homes was all over in that rectangle I posted last week.  They are going to need to come down and drive it themselves. 

Although, the sidebar is that my wife was thinking how nice it would be for her to be so close to downtown without being in some paper-walled apartment/condo downtown full of drunk club kids.

[FLClarkKent]

20 hours ago, HankStrong said:

We drove all over through here this weekend with a list of places they saw.  The problem is they aren't exactly ready, so those particular houses won't likely be around.

Those neighborhoods are all over the place.  I saw some streets that looked straight out of Deliverance and some that looked just out of a luxury magazine.  There were some streets that were hipsters havens, a few that looked like they belonged in Parramore, one that had a house with fake animals/animal murals on it, overgrown lots, houses that looked like they died 30 years ago, brand new, etc. etc. etc.

It was a little bit of everything.  What a daunting task they have in store.

I believe one issue behind the street by street disparity is that the city limits in these neighborhoods are quite jagged. You can go from Orlando proper on one block, to unincorporated Orange County on the next. And you can notice a real difference in zoning, code enforcement, etc. I think the city would be wise to square off its borders in this area, particularly since it's so close to the city center. 

[HankStrong]

1 hour ago, FLClarkKent said:

I believe one issue behind the street by street disparity is that the city limits in these neighborhoods are quite jagged. You can go from Orlando proper on one block, to unincorporated Orange County on the next. And you can notice a real difference in zoning, code enforcement, etc. I think the city would be wise to square off its borders in this area, particularly since it's so close to the city center. 

Yeah.  I saw that on the map.  That's really odd.

I'm still unsure why, in this modern world, Orlando isn't basically the whole county.  I know Winter Paaaahhhk and some of the areas would resist, but at least the bulk of the county.

Purely off the Wiki list of cities/towns

Cities
Apopka
Bay Lake
Belle Isle
Edgewood
Lake Buena Vista
Maitland
Ocoee
Orlando
Winter Garden
Winter Park

Towns
Eatonville
Oakland
Windermere

It's likely you could just assume most of those would not wish to get folded into Orlando.

[FLClarkKent]

To me, the most interesting disparity is the areas around Curry Ford (between Primrose and Kaley). You can really tell which blocks are in the city, and which are in the county.

I assume that back in the day, these areas were the outer burbs of Orlando, which is quite interesting when you think about it.

All that being said, I do think the area is poised to boom. It's one of the few affordable areas near downtown.

 

Edited April 12, 2016 by FLClarkKent

[TRENCH]

On 4/11/2016 at 10:50 AM, jack said:

I tell everyone to stick to the Blanker/ Boone school district. Even if you do not have kids, your home value will rise. Sooner or later, someone with a 4 year will be desperate to get into the school district. I see it all the time. Overall, the neighborhoods are nicest west of mills except for Bel Air. Nice neighborhood buy average school district. 

agree, i hear many people say the same thing

 

On 4/11/2016 at 0:51 AM, nite owℓ said:

I don't know much about Azalea Park/Semoran (except that it has been called heroin alley - not sure of the accuracy of the description though), but personally, I'd make safety, overall neighborhood appreciation and good schools a priority over proximity to work. And I'm sure you guys wouldn't want to make the same mistake again by moving into another bad area just because the new house is affordable & easy to buy. Again, I can't say Azalea Park is safe or dangerous, but do lots of research no matter where you buy. Check out spotcrime & http://www.orlandosentinel2.com/data/crime/  for crime info, and you can even talk to police in the area. It's also important to visit and spend time in the neighborhood at various times of the day to get a feel of the place. Listing prices are negotiable and deals in great neighborhoods do pop up every now and then, but you have to be ready. If I allowed high prices to deter me I wouldn't own anything. Where there is a will, there is a way

i definitely agree on the "overall neighborhood appreciation and good schools proximity" and will be checking out the same places that we will narrow down during different times of days.  And i forgot that prices could be negotiable while i was writing this, duh! Thank You!

[Universe_Explorer]

On ‎4‎/‎12‎/‎2016 at 11:03 AM, HankStrong said:

Yeah.  I saw that on the map.  That's really odd.

I'm still unsure why, in this modern world, Orlando isn't basically the whole county.  I know Winter Paaaahhhk and some of the areas would resist, but at least the bulk of the county.

Orange County is an interesting example of the failure of local government structures to adapt to suburbanization.  Baltimore City and County are another example. I find it fascinating.  County governments were meant to create a bare-bones infrastructure to support basic municipal resources to the farmers and small town folks that didn't live in "the city" - roads, sewer, storm drainage, waste collection, etc.  The cities - with their larger tax base and populations - were thought to be more attractive places for additional social services and major government functions.  Then suburbanization occurred, and all of the sudden the tax base flipped.  Counties became the recipients of a the larger (and more demanding) tax base, and county government got in the business of big-time municipal governing (social services, fire and law enforcement, parks, etc).  However, the wealthier residents left behind those more likely to need social services in the cities.  Cities raised their taxes to compensate, and now you're stuck with this interesting model where the cities require higher taxes to maintain almost equivalent service levels of the urban/suburban counties, which in turn have governments that behave more like cities.   Heck, Orange County even changed the chairman position to a "mayor" title!

Either way, state law still allows the cities to annex portions of the counties - what was supposed to happen when the big cities expanded and the small town county folks wanted better services - and not the other way around.  But in the current scenario  - here in Orange County - there is pushback from county residents that get similar services for lower taxes.  Of course, the cities are also only really interested in annexing areas that provide a boost in the tax base - not the places that geographically makes sense (there are some geographic rules about enclaves, etc) so we have these jagged city/county lines seemingly at random...