Downtown Orlando Project Discussion

[codypet]

Friend of mine owned Qarma Crepes and it was incessant landlord issues.

[jack]

The rent is too damn high! 

[spenser1058]

6 minutes ago, jack said:

The rent is too damn high! 

Jack, I'm going to have to set you a speaking slot at the next Democratic National Convention!

[orlandoguy]

Thornton Park/Eola needs a lot of help. It has been lapped by Mills, Ivanhoe, and Milk Districts. Washington has a bunch of empty buildings (Graffiti landlords are going to have trouble with that one, they are asking new tenant to pay for the outside space as part of the lease and it will sit til they change on that or an idiot agrees to that), Spice will finally be closing (this is a huge opportunity for a good restaurant group to do something great there), 420 and the Sanctuary/101 retail area continue to sit mostly empty, Central/Summerling building has 2 big vacancies, and more inventory will be added with Modera and Citi. I'm hearing another big restaurant in the area might be closing too. 
Mostly a landlord issue, all the tenants in Post/Paramount are doing good business. If rents were lower like the other areas we'd see them full and more interesting concepts move in.

I won't be upset to see Spice leave (other than some good people losing their jobs). That prime space has been squandered for too long by a mediocre product.

I will say Stubborn Mule has brought a little life back to the Sanctuary block in South Eola. Sitting on the patio there with Mucho across the street and Oudom a few doors down, it almost feels bustling from the late afternoons onward.

[jack]

19 hours ago, spenser1058 said:

Jack, I'm going to have to set you a speaking slot at the next Democratic National Convention!

Well that will never happen but the rent is tough for a lot of businesses outside of bars. We do not have the street life to justify $30 rents. Unless you are slinging liquor and you do not have to pay employees. 

[sunshine]

How is the rent comapre to I drive?

[jack]

Downtown is lower. Park ave and Orlando ave is astronomical.  

[popsiclebrandon]

4 hours ago, jack said:

Well that will never happen but the rent is tough for a lot of businesses outside of bars. We do not have the street life to justify $30 rents. Unless you are slinging liquor and you do not have to pay employees. 

Rents in the little pocket we're in on Central are reaching 40 now. 

[Jernigan]

ARB report with updated renderings of the urban trail bridge over 50 

http://www.cityoforlando.net/city-planning/wp-content/uploads/sites/27/2017/03/ARB2016-00070report.pdf

[prahaboheme]

Anyone else feel as if this bridge design is a bit over the top at this location? I tend to prefer minimalist concrete bridges in urban locations rather than statement pieces (especially an all too played out suspension bridge).  

 

[Jernigan]

I like it I just don't understand why the city keeps calling the project a "pedestrian bridge."    Is it not s part of the urban trail?   Why not go with the wording that sounds like positive cycling /recreational infrastructure instead of the one that sounds like a band aid on a stroad?

[nite owℓ]

On 3/9/2017 at 0:03 PM, popsiclebrandon said:

Thornton Park/Eola needs a lot of help. It has been lapped by Mills, Ivanhoe, and Milk Districts. Washington has a bunch of empty buildings (Graffiti landlords are going to have trouble with that one, they are asking new tenant to pay for the outside space as part of the lease and it will sit til they change on that or an idiot agrees to that), Spice will finally be closing (this is a huge opportunity for a good restaurant group to do something great there), 420 and the Sanctuary/101 retail area continue to sit mostly empty, Central/Summerling building has 2 big vacancies, and more inventory will be added with Modera and Citi. I'm hearing another big restaurant in the area might be closing too. 

Mostly a landlord issue, all the tenants in Post/Paramount are doing good business. If rents were lower like the other areas we'd see them full and more interesting concepts move in.

I don't know much about commercial real estate, but it seems counter-intuitive to price commercial tenants out of a lease vs lowering the rent to something affordable that allows tenants to stay long term & contribute to the community. Do commercial landlords get to claim vacant property as a loss/write-off or something? How are they making money??

[JFW657]

5 hours ago, prahaboheme said:

Anyone else feel as if this bridge design is a bit over the top at this location? I tend to prefer minimalist concrete bridges in urban locations rather than statement pieces (especially an all too played out suspension bridge).  

 

I seem to recall a similar sentiment having been opined about around here a while back.... 

[FLheat]

On ‎3‎/‎11‎/‎2017 at 5:22 PM, prahaboheme said:

Anyone else feel as if this bridge design is a bit over the top at this location? I tend to prefer minimalist concrete bridges in urban locations rather than statement pieces (especially an all too played out suspension bridge).  

 

NOPE

[popsiclebrandon]

On 3/11/2017 at 10:06 PM, nite owℓ said:

I don't know much about commercial real estate, but it seems counter-intuitive to price commercial tenants out of a lease vs lowering the rent to something affordable that allows tenants to stay long term & contribute to the community. Do commercial landlords get to claim vacant property as a loss/write-off or something? How are they making money??

I've had it explained to me that a lot of buildings have mortgages on them and in those documents the banks have set minimum rates that can be accepted. So the bank says nothing under $30 a foot, and the landlord is stuck. 

[JFW657]

I didn't know that.

Have often wondered the same thing.

[bqknight]

Anyone have more information on this? A new fast-casual concept downtown would definitely be welcome!

http://www.bizjournals.com/orlando/news/2017/03/10/exclusivebar-harbor-lobster-co-to-dig-its-claws.html

[popsiclebrandon]

23 minutes ago, JFW657 said:

I didn't know that.

Have often wondered the same thing.

Yeah seems like it would be an issue if they stop making payments because they can't get tenants but I'm told it isn't usually an issue as it is set below market at time of contract but there was a ton of empty inventory after the recession from buildings done during the boom when market was much higher.

[jack]

1 hour ago, popsiclebrandon said:

I've had it explained to me that a lot of buildings have mortgages on them and in those documents the banks have set minimum rates that can be accepted. So the bank says nothing under $30 a foot, and the landlord is stuck. 

Everyone has their reasons. For existing buildings, it could be an inflated sense of value. For new buildings, the cost of TI might not cover the lower rent in the short run. 

[GRS328]

On 3/13/2017 at 0:13 PM, popsiclebrandon said:

I've had it explained to me that a lot of buildings have mortgages on them and in those documents the banks have set minimum rates that can be accepted. So the bank says nothing under $30 a foot, and the landlord is stuck. 

True in some cases, more common in office buildings and larger shopping centers than in smaller-scale developments like what are being discussed here.  With respect to retail space in multifamily projects a la 420 many lenders don't even consider any income from the retail space at all (or severely discount it) when doing their underwriting since that income is historically very unreliable.   

[orlandoguy]

OC Brewers confirmed for a May opening per the Sentinel.

http://www.orlandosentinel.com/business/consumer/os-orange-county-brewers-20170320-story.html

[Jernigan]

Updates from growthspotter on the former AT&T building at Orange and Amelia...

- Construction could begin this fall (plans filed with city in next 30 days)

- Complete exterior reno mostly glass

- addition of 200 space parking deck

- Adding 10,000 sq ft ground level retail

[JFW657]

Found this rendering from a 2015 Orlando Sentinel article:

[Jernigan]

The unfortunate thing for this building is it is set back from Amelia.

Would he great if they build out to the street so there is retail on both sides of the corner and not just Orange.  

[codypet]

Is it possible to add onto the south of the building where the surface lot is there with retail?