Downtown Orlando Project Discussion

[spenser1058]

With a 7-Eleven!

[JFW657]

Orlando should strive to become the first city in the country (or the world for that matter) to have a 7 Eleven on the top floor of a high rise. 

A 7 Eleven penthouse if you will.

What the heck. Put a brise soleil up there too.

[Jernigan]

Skyhouse IV could have their entire 7th and 11th floor dedicated to smoothies and sundries 

[jrs2]

12 hours ago, orange87 said:

Beyond ridiculous. I'm sorry, but anybody who thinks Skyhouse is amazing yet Suntrust is bad can't be taken seriously.

I'm assuming that you are to be "taken seriously" then, right?  Let's break it down:

"Amazing":

I never stated that Skyhouse was "amazing?"

"Taken seriously":  

Well, I never stated that Skyhouse was "amazing," so your statement about not being "taken seriously" wouldn't apply to me anyway.  So, who would it apply to?  See below:

There's an actual architect that Novarre hired to design Skyhouse, and an architectural review board at The City of Orlando that reviewed the design before approving it.  So, if there's anyone to not be taken seriously on Skyhouse, it's those two entities involved in it's design and approval.  But not just in Orlando, though, but architectural review boards in all those other cities where this design was also approved and a similar tower built by Novarre. 

Suntrust:

Do you really believe that a peach and aqua colored highrise is acceptable for a downtown?  Peach and Aqua?  That's not even acceptable in Miami.

This isn't the Miami Vice- 1980's anymore either.  Those outdated tacky Florida trends are over.  Why do you think Pointe Orlando was re-imagined 10 years ago?

Suntrust is distinctive.  I give you that.  Distinctively tacky.  And to think that Tradition Towers was going to incorporate the same basic color scheme to compliment Suntrust.  Modera's color scheme is so much better than peach and aqua.

And another thing... Why did the boom produce so many towers and unbuilt proposals with color schemes very different from Suntrust?  Because they knew. 

Edited July 6, 2017 by jrs2

[orange87]

Just now, jrs2 said:

I'm assuming that you are to be "taken seriously" then, right?  Let's break it down:

"Amazing":

I never stated that Skyhouse was "amazing?"

"Taken seriously":  

Well, I never stated that Skyhouse was "amazing," so your statement about not being "taken seriously" wouldn't apply to me anyway, even though you wanted it to.  So, who would it apply to?  See below:

There's an actual architect that Novarre hired to design Skyhouse, and an architectural review board at The City of Orlando that reviewed the design before approving it.  So, if there's anyone to not be taken seriously on Skyhouse, it's those two entities involved in it's design and approval.  But not just in Orlando, though, but architectural review boards in all those other cities where this design was also approved and a similar tower built by Novarre. 

Yeah. I like buildings that don't look like they're still under construction.

1 minute ago, jrs2 said:

Suntrust:

Do you really believe that a peach and aqua colored highrise is acceptable for a downtown?  Peach and Aqua?  That's not even acceptable in Miami.

This isn't the Miami Vice- 1980's anymore either.  Those outdated tacky Florida trends are over.  They died with grunge.  Why do you think Pointe Orlando was re-imagined 10 years ago?

Suntrust is distinctive.  I give you that.  Distinctively tacky.  And to think that Tradition Towers was going to incorporate the same basic color scheme to compliment Suntrust.  Modera's color scheme is so much better than peach and aqua.

And another thing... Why did the boom produce so many towers and unbuilt proposals with color schemes very different from Suntrust?  Because they knew. 

You must be color blind then. Suntrust's colors look like stone/concrete and oxidized copper, not peach and aqua.

[dcluley98]

4 hours ago, JFW657 said:

Orlando should strive to become the first city in the country (or the world for that matter) to have a 7 Eleven on the top floor of a high rise. 

A 7 Eleven penthouse if you will.

What the heck. Put a brise soleil up there too.

As long as there is a homeless shelter on the ground floor in lieu of retail space. 

[JFW657]

I partially agree with jrs2 re: SunTrust. 

I've always thought the four pyramids were goofy looking and from the north or south at a distance, they make the building look like it's wearing one of those "Jughead" style caps that used to be portrayed in comic books back in the 50's.

Other than that, I like everything else about it.

Love the colors and that center glass wall on the east and west facades really makes the building. I especially like the way they made it a little bit convex on the top inset section.

To each his own.

Edited July 6, 2017 by JFW657

[JFW657]

23 minutes ago, orange87 said:

Yeah. I like buildings that don't look like they're still under construction.

You must be color blind then. Suntrust's colors look like stone/concrete and oxidized copper, not peach and aqua.

I think I recall the two main colors being referred to as rose and teal back when it was first announced back in the 80's. Not sure what color that top, lighter inset section is.

[HankStrong]

7th and 11th floors would be epic.

 

On a note about convenience stores, anyone who has been to Japan has been to a Family Mart.  No joke, there are more Family Mart stores per block in the big cities than Starbucks in Seattle & Portland downtowns.  It's insane.  I was in downtown Tokyo and could see 7 FM stores from my spot waiting to cross the street.  I'm not talking like I could vaguely, somewhere randomly way down the street POSSIBLY see a sign.  I'm talking about confirmed within 2 blocks either direction.  One of those blocks had one on each end and one in the middle.  Three stores on the same side.

Plus they play their jingle for you every single time someone walks in.  It must drive the workers absolutely crazy.  If you are in the store 5-7 minutes, you will hear it several dozen times.

 

[spenser1058]

Although I mostly want to stay out of the free for all, I was reminded in the discussion that buildings are often a reflection of their conception.

When Sun Bank Center was initially proposed, it wasn't just a developer in search of tenants but Sun Bank itself wanting a statement in its hometown of its arrival at the top of Florida banking. That in itself was quite novel - Orlando had never been the locus of anything in Florida (even the citrus industry was divided between us and Polk County for dominance; our eventual overwhelming dominance in tourism was just beginning to assert itself.) In the rush to build huge banks, however, Sun Bank had been scrappy, aggressive and built on strong marketing unlike the other players. And it worked. The new tower reflected all of that. Ironically, within a couple of years before it was even completed, Sun would merge with uberconservative Trust Company of Georgia. Initially, there were concerns if the building would even be completed. It was, but control of the company ended up in Atlanta; in fact, before long all the major Florida banks were absorbed by out of state entities.

On the other hand, today's BoA building was conceived by Bill DuPont, scion of the chemical giant and lots of (by American standards) old money. Bill was a product of the Lexington, KY horse country and specifically wanted DuPont Centre to reflect his traditional tastes. It did, but again it was all moot for he became embroiled in a financial scandal with local roots and abandoned the area.

Bottom line - those two towers reflect the very specific requirements of those who envisioned them at the time. Generally, these days the buildings we get are designed to maximize the profits of whoever builds them without much regard to local sensibilities. It's sad but probably unlikely to change.

The only variance on that are government buildings designed to minimize cost. Occasionally, strong leaders like Bill Frederick and Linda Chapin can influence those (or, surprisingly, the Deco-influenced WG City Hall - who knew?) More often, we get buildings like the Orange County Administration Center on Rosalind which looks more like a credit union than the center of the region's largest governmental entity.

30 minutes ago, HankStrong said:

7th and 11th floors would be epic.

 

On a note about convenience stores, anyone who has been to Japan has been to a Family Mart.  No joke, there are more Family Mart stores per block in the big cities than Starbucks in Seattle & Portland downtowns.  It's insane.  I was in downtown Tokyo and could see 7 FM stores from my spot waiting to cross the street.  I'm not talking like I could vaguely, somewhere randomly way down the street POSSIBLY see a sign.  I'm talking about confirmed within 2 blocks either direction.  One of those blocks had one on each end and one in the middle.  Three stores on the same side.

Plus they play their jingle for you every single time someone walks in.  It must drive the workers absolutely crazy.  If you are in the store 5-7 minutes, you will hear it several dozen times.

 

That makes sense given that 7-Eleven is now owned by a Tokyo company.

[jrs2]

3 hours ago, orange87 said:

Yeah. I like buildings that don't look like they're still under construction.

You must be color blind then. Suntrust's colors look like stone/concrete and oxidized copper, not peach and aqua.

I liked your post because I like your spirit.  And I see your point about looking like it's still u/c (Skyhouse). 

It's all good.  Teal & rose as JFW657 stated.  I used to say the same thing, though, about oxidized copper, to make myself like it more...

My main point is that I would have rather seen something more "northern" looking or even like Centrust/ BOA (which would be pushing it).  Spenser1058 had a great historical background on it and DuPont (BOA).

It does light up nice at night, though.

[Nick@Night]

Seriously?
Yes, agreed, Skyhouse Is underwhelming. Totally agree it should be taller. But it looks like a building that was designed by an actual designer while BOA to me looks exactly like a building I would have drawn as a kindergartener. It resembles stacks of cinder blocks, unpainted ones at that. I really don't get what you guys see in it.

As for SunTrust. I find the colors a little silly too. I don't hold it anywhere near the same disdain as BOA. To me it just comes off looking dated, which I'm okay with, because I appreciate the attempt. But for me there isn't an excuse for turning 5 year-old's two-dimensional scribble into a giant (Orlando standards) office building.

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[JFW657]

1 hour ago, Nick@Night said:

Seriously?
Yes, agreed, Skyhouse Is underwhelming. Totally agree it should be taller. But it looks like a building that was designed by an actual designer while BOA to me looks exactly like a building I would have drawn as a kindergartener. It resembles stacks of cinder blocks, unpainted ones at that. I really don't get what you guys see in it.

As for SunTrust. I find the colors a little silly too. I don't hold it anywhere near the same disdain as BOA. To me it just comes off looking dated, which I'm okay with, because I appreciate the attempt. But for me there isn't an excuse for turning 5 year-old's two-dimensional scribble into a giant (Orlando standards) office building.

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To each his own as they say.

Aside from the pyramids on the roof of SunTrust, I think the building looks just fine. Including the colors.

Tampa has a similarly colored building, for what it's worth.

Buildings do tend to reflect the times and the era in which they were built. That's just the way it is. They can't go back every decade or so and strip and replace the exteriors just to keep them current looking.

As for BOA, I never was a huge fan of the stepped sections either, as I'd have preferred a more sleek, narrow tower that extended upward farther. But I don't think it looks amateurish or child like either. It's an attractive and dignified looking building that would grace the skyline of any city it might have appeared in. It also won a design award from the AIA in 1988.

Sounds to me like you're going out of your way to be overly critical. 

[Nick@Night]

To each his own as they say.
Aside from the pyramids on the roof of SunTrust, I think the building looks just fine. Including the colors.
Tampa has a similarly colored building, for what it's worth.
Buildings do tend to reflect the times and the era in which they were built. That's just the way it is. They can't go back every decade or so and strip and replace the exteriors just to keep them current looking.
As for BOA, I never was a huge fan of the stepped sections either, as I'd have preferred a more sleek, narrow tower that extended upward farther. But I don't think it looks amateurish or child like either. It's an attractive and dignified looking building that would grace the skyline of any city it might have appeared in. It also won a design award from the AIA in 1988.
Sounds to me like you're going out of your way to be overly critical. 

Obviously I'm in the minority here. But trust me, I'm not going out of my way to be overly critical. I'm simply saying what has always been in my mind. I was genuinely surprised to read peoples opinion of the building.



That's the view from my kitchen, i obviously wasn't bothered enough by it to forgo buying this condo. However, it did make me think twice lol [emoji6]

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[spenser1058]

I believe that the original plan was to have a DuPont Centre II, which although not a mirror image, would have made the original appear more symmetrical. Of course, Bill DuPont ran into financial issues and the second building was never completed.

[tennis32801]

1 hour ago, Nick@Night said:

 

 

Obviously I'm in the minority here. But trust me, I'm not going out of my way to be overly critical. I'm simply saying what has always been in my mind. I was genuinely surprised to read peoples opinion of the building.



That's the view from my kitchen, i obviously wasn't bothered enough by it to forgo buying this condo. However, it did make me think twice lol

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The BOA (and downtown) looks so sad by itself from that vantage point

[Nick@Night]

Yeah you're right about that. Waiting for creative village to do something for me. My view to the left is an improvement thankfully

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[JFW657]

38 minutes ago, spenser1058 said:

I believe that the original plan was to have a DuPont Centre II, which although not a mirror image, would have made the original appear more symmetrical. Of course, Bill DuPont ran into financial issues and the second building was never completed.

An 18 story hotel was supposed to go there. It wasn't an opposite, mirror image building (although I often used to think that might've been kinda cool) but it did incorporate many of the same design elements.

They actually started driving the pilings for it before the project was abandoned.

I've often regretted the buildings we lost for nothing on that site, including the old Nickle's Alley nightclub.

[JFW657]

1 hour ago, Nick@Night said:

 

 

Obviously I'm in the minority here. But trust me, I'm not going out of my way to be overly critical. I'm simply saying what has always been in my mind. I was genuinely surprised to read peoples opinion of the building.



That's the view from my kitchen, i obviously wasn't bothered enough by it to forgo buying this condo. However, it did make me think twice lol

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I would've been more concerned with the fact that your condo is apparently tilted up on its side, than anything else!!!!... 

Must make walking across the room quite difficult. 

[dcluley98]

There's a lady who's sure all that glitters is gold. . . 

Edited July 8, 2017 by dcluley98

[jrs2]

^^

You guys kill me!  LMFAO.

DuPont- It reminded me of One South Wacker in Chicago with the step-backs, even though not all glass clad.  For the '80's, I thought it was a good direction to go in tower-wise in Orlando.  Prior to that, CNA dominated the skyline.  But then the Copper Whopper was built which was a little odd in design b/c it is not a true octagon; it looked odd from aerial Eyewitness News helicopter shots of downtown.  And that's when it was CNA and Copper Whopper as the two tallest.  And then you had, among others the TV 13 building at a 45 degree angle, a very "Florida" building (as was CNA); those styles were seen in Miami, Daytona, Jax, and a few other cities in Florida.  That's what I mean by DuPont being a good direction to go in. 

It's just so weird about the fate of DuPont (family), the fate of Sunbank (merger and uncertainty about it's completion), the fate of the Tradition Towers developer (Walsh), Kuhn with his post-Plaza plans for Orlando, The Orlando Place developer Kalivritenos, etc.  It's like every time Orlando has tried to make a major mark, some misfortune has hit the companies or developers involved.  Kuhn had a Jax project that didn't sell well and as a result, he ditched the Washington St. garage site proposal that included the bowling alley (he should've stuck with Orlando developments before going elsewhere).  Walsh took the easy way out.  The Orlando Place guy embezzled funds from investors and split (Lexington developer).  It's just one horror story after another.  I'm sure there are more...

[orange87]

Has anybody checked to see if there's any sign of construction going on at the Majesty Building (I-4 Eyesore)? The owner said it's going to finish being built by the end of this year.

[orange87]

Yeah. I think people are running out of stuff to talk about on here. People are complaining like "Orlando's tallest and most iconic buildings are terrible because reasons and stuff derpity derp."

[prahaboheme]

2 hours ago, jrs2 said:

^^

You guys kill me!  LMFAO.

DuPont- It reminded me of One South Wacker in Chicago with the step-backs, even though not all glass clad.  For the '80's, I thought it was a good direction to go in tower-wise in Orlando.  Prior to that, CNA dominated the skyline.  But then the Copper Whopper was built which was a little odd in design b/c it is not a true octagon; it looked odd from aerial Eyewitness News helicopter shots of downtown.  And that's when it was CNA and Copper Whopper as the two tallest.  And then you had, among others the TV 13 building at a 45 degree angle, a very "Florida" building (as was CNA); those styles were seen in Miami, Daytona, Jax, and a few other cities in Florida.  That's what I mean by DuPont being a good direction to go in. 

It's just so weird about the fate of DuPont (family), the fate of Sunbank (merger and uncertainty about it's completion), the fate of the Tradition Towers developer (Walsh), Kuhn with his post-Plaza plans for Orlando, The Orlando Place developer Kalivritenos, etc.  It's like every time Orlando has tried to make a major mark, some misfortune has hit the companies or developers involved.  Kuhn had a Jax project that didn't sell well and as a result, he ditched the Washington St. garage site proposal that included the bowling alley (he should've stuck with Orlando developments before going elsewhere).  Walsh took the easy way out.  The Orlando Place guy embezzled funds from investors and split (Lexington developer).  It's just one horror story after another.  I'm sure there are more...

Lets not forget Lou Pearlmans makeover of Church Street!

[JFW657]

47 minutes ago, prahaboheme said:

Lets not forget Lou Pearlmans makeover of Church Street!

Doesn't Glenda Hood partially own that Church St makeover, too?