Downtown Orlando Project Discussion

[bqknight]

16 minutes ago, spenser1058 said:

I did notice a bridal salon has gone in on Lake Ave. (ground floor of 420, west side, I think.) Although not useful to me, I'm glad to see  a variety of retail sprouting in the area.

That's been there since 420 opened pretty much, seems to be doing well. I saw on a leasing brochure and notices the For Lease sign gone on the parcel next to the bridal shop, supposedly a salon is going there. 

I wonder if they'll ever lease the restaurant space. Maybe if 520 gets built. 

[popsiclebrandon]

The Modera retail is very interesting. If it was where UClub is going I think it would thrive. I still think it can be a very good spot for the right concept. How that building changes the situation for homeless that hang out at 7-11 and the Library will also be interesting to watch. Going to be tough to sell $1800 apartments when you get hit up for money every time you come in and out of the building.

[JFW657]

27 minutes ago, popsiclebrandon said:

The Modera retail is very interesting. If it was where UClub is going I think it would thrive. I still think it can be a very good spot for the right concept. How that building changes the situation for homeless that hang out at 7-11 and the Library will also be interesting to watch. Going to be tough to sell $1800 apartments when you get hit up for money every time you come in and out of the building.

I dunno. Seems to me that the kind of people who would want to live in downtown high rises to begin with, are probably the kind of people who realize that such things come with the territory. People who can't or don't want to deal with that, would probably choose to live just outside of downtown or in the suburbs.

I would think, anyway.

[popsiclebrandon]

You would think but the young people who move into Post always comment to me that they didn't realize how many homeless would be in the area. Most of the people moving downtown only know the nightlife areas and don't think about it.
Of course this area has gotten quite bad lately and we've had to give our staff mace after a few bad incidents recently. Be nice if the police would do any patrols in the area but they just ignore it.

[codypet]

Have they walked in front of Avenue in the last two years?   The homeless have been a constant problem for a while.

[Jernigan]

5 hours ago, popsiclebrandon said:

Did a walk around most of downtown last night because it was so nice out.

There is activity in the old Java Lava space. No permit or anything so not sure the plan there.

Jinya is under construction, and with a permit.

Looks like that cafe on the corner of Washington and Orange is doing some work.

Other than the recently vacated stretch on Church there really isn't any good retail open to lease. Only spaces left are off the main areas like at 420 and Aspire where you need to be something like a salon or yoga or something to make it work.

Java Lava - BLD2018-11241 - Repair and replace drywall ceiling tiles, flooring adjust doors to proper, paint

[bqknight]

The homeless problem is bad downtown - and I think the city is aware - I'm just not sure how you tackle it. To be fair - I do see bicycle police around downtown - but typically on weekday days and weekend nights, not weekday nights. 

That's part of the reason I like living in South Eola - although outside/inside Publix can get bad - they have an on-site security guard there though and I have seen them have to ask people to leave or take action on people in the bathrooms quite a few times. 

 

[Jernigan]

I was all over downtown for meetings almost 5 days per week and I don’t remember if ever being this bad in the last few years.

Im not sure if the changes to the panhandling rules make it seem like more people or if we’ve seen an increase 

[Universe_Explorer]

On 2/5/2018 at 11:24 AM, aent said:

I believe the UCF Medical School teaching hospital gave the partnership contract to a non-ORMC/FH national hospital company (HCA). They seem to be very interested in rapid expansion in the Orlando market so its not completely crazy that we could have a real new player in downtown, but this project hasn't got it. They own Osceola Regional, North Florida, etc.

HCA has plans to build a teaching hospital for UCF Medical school on the Lake Nona medical city campus.  Beyond the sizable concerns of a for-profit company running a "teaching" hospital for a state-subsidized medical school, the need for a large hospital on that site remains pretty minimal (doesn't take a big leap to see the connections between our current administration in Tallahassee on this deal...) so it's a long range thing.

That said, any company would need a certificate of need to build a full hospital (you don't need one for "free standing" ERs anymore, which is why you send them popping up everywhere to steal market share), and it's doubtful even HCA could get one so close to FHO and ORMC campuses.

[I am Reality]

It's funny how everyone is obsessed with height. Seriously, does that really vindicate Orlando as a major city? What Orlando needs is good-paying professional jobs. The rest will take care of itself. There is no reason to even visit downtown right now. Also, downtown has done nothing to attract the 6o+ million visitors to Orlando each year.  Lake Eola is a below-average city park with no appeal whatsoever.  I suggest building a true landmark downtown (something like the solar forest in Singapore). It would not be cheap, but would attract millions of people downtown and create a high-tech/innovative environment for the local economy. It's time to move away from minimum-wage jobs here.

[bqknight]

2 minutes ago, I am Reality said:

It's funny how everyone is obsessed with height. Seriously, does that really vindicate Orlando as a major city? What Orlando needs is good-paying professional jobs. The rest will take care of itself. There is no reason to even visit downtown right now. Also, downtown has done nothing to attract the 6o+ million visitors to Orlando each year.  Lake Eola is a below-average city park with no appeal whatsoever.  I suggest building a true landmark downtown (something like the solar forest in Singapore). It would not be cheap, but would attract millions of people downtown and create a high-tech/innovative environment for the local economy. It's time to move away from minimum-wage jobs here.

So glad you made an account to post something you obviously know nothing about. Or! You just salty towards Orlando. One of the two. Probably salty. 

[JFW657]

17 minutes ago, bqknight said:

So glad you made an account to post something you obviously know nothing about. Or! You just salty towards Orlando. One of the two. Probably salty. 

Judging by his comment about "building a true landmark downtown", with it's implication that it would be publicly funded and overseen by local govt authorities, I'm not sure Mr Reality understands the concept of privately owned property and privately financed commercial office and residential real estate development. 

[I am Reality]

25 minutes ago, bqknight said:

So glad you made an account to post something you obviously know nothing about. Or! You just salty towards Orlando. One of the two. Probably salty. 

I don't know what I am talking about? I was raised here and live here. Orlando has the lowest per capita income of any large city in the country. We have a disproportionate number of low-paying tourism related jobs. How can you possibly argue with the facts? Do you think people in Chicago or San Francisco or Atlanta Care About whether they build a 30 or 50 story building? They are more concerned we about bringing in corporate HQs and high-paying jobs (non-personal-injury law, finance, investment banking, engineering, etc). Those are the jobs filling their skyscrapers and Orlando has very few of them. Construction is a function of demand. If the jobs support more construction, new buildings will be financed. Again, you can't possibly argue with that.

If you have lived or visited elsewhere, you know that every city thinks it is "special". Every city thinks it is the coolest, or has the best nightlife, or has the trendiest restaurants, or is the most vibrant.  

I can tell you with certainty that Lake Eola is not a world-class park. It is a pretty-basic lake surrounded by 30 of grass on each side. Every city has a lake, or a river or beach or shoreline.  You are mistaken if you think people are drawn to it. My argument is build something truly impressive to draw people.

[I am Reality]

9 minutes ago, JFW657 said:

Judging by his comment about "building a true landmark downtown", with it's implication that it would be publicly funded and overseen by local govt authorities, I'm not sure Mr Reality understands the concept of privately owned property and privately financed commercial office and residential real estate development. 

You must have missed my reference to public space - Lake Eola. I was making that Orlando can better leverage the tens of millions of visitors to draw people downtown. 

I am very well aware of privately-financed commercial real estate.  If there is demand, it will be built. Period. Developers do not build for no reason.  There is no demand here in Orlando (or else more projects would be built). Even the new 26-story building going up downtown is  mostly parking. 

[JFW657]

52 minutes ago, Universe_Explorer said:

HCA has plans to build a teaching hospital for UCF Medical school on the Lake Nona medical city campus.  Beyond the sizable concerns of a for-profit company running a "teaching" hospital for a state-subsidized medical school, the need for a large hospital on that site remains pretty minimal (doesn't take a big leap to see the connections between our current administration in Tallahassee on this deal...) so it's a long range thing.

That said, any company would need a certificate of need to build a full hospital (you don't need one for "free standing" ERs anymore, which is why you send them popping up everywhere to steal market share), and it's doubtful even HCA could get one so close to FHO and ORMC campuses.

As I pointed out in an earlier post, and which was later reiterated in an OBJ article posted by DreS0803, in which the Ponte Health founder is quoted....

"If the development does get built in downtown Orlando, it would be between the Florida Hospital and Orlando Health downtown campuses, but Ponte said the new Vertical Medical City wouldn't compete with them. 'We are doing something different; it's a particular demographic we are serving. My scale would be significantly lesser and specialize in a hospice and assisted living. I'm trying to create an experience for a demographic that's not currently being taken care of. It will be a contemporary experience — modern with extensive green spaces within the building itself. I want it to feel like you're still outside.'"

....the physical proximity to those two other major hospitals might not be much of an issue, if any.

[idroveazamboni]

I started a thread in here about Orlando Largest Publicly Traded companies and their are few and far between. Only 1 company made it on the Fortune 500 Darden and they are based in the suburbs.  I am Reality is dead right about the lack of corporations. The 2nd largest is Tupperware which is not even a fortune 1000 and they are HQ in burbs as well.  Name me some publicly based Orlando  based companies? 

Edited February 8, 2018 by idroveazamboni

[bqknight]

20 minutes ago, I am Reality said:

I don't know what I am talking about? I was raised here and live here. Orlando has the lowest per capita income of any large city in the country. We have a disproportionate number of low-paying tourism related jobs. How can you possibly argue with the facts? Do you think people in Chicago or San Francisco or Atlanta Care About whether they build a 30 or 50 story building? They are more concerned we about bringing in corporate HQs and high-paying jobs (non-personal-injury law, finance, investment banking, engineering, etc). Those are the jobs filling their skyscrapers and Orlando has very few of them. Construction is a function of demand. If the jobs support more construction, new buildings will be financed. Again, you can't possibly argue with that.

If you have lived or visited elsewhere, you know that every city thinks it is "special". Every city thinks it is the coolest, or has the best nightlife, or has the trendiest restaurants, or is the most vibrant.  

I can tell you with certainty that Lake Eola is not a world-class park. It is a pretty-basic lake surrounded by 30 of grass on each side. Every city has a lake, or a river or beach or shoreline.  You are mistaken if you think people are drawn to it. My argument is build something truly impressive to draw people.

Here's the thing. We aren't NYC, Chicago or even Atlanta,  not even close. I don't think anyone on this board thinks we are. It's a board about discussing projects in Orlando, including skyscrapers and high-rises. 

I have lived elsewhere and I didn't think it was special at all, that's why I moved. I know Orlando doesn't have the best nightlife, restaurants or parks but (at least now) it's quite a vibrant, growing, young city and that's why I think it's so special. 

As long as the theme parks are here, there's always going to be those low paying jobs. It's not a skilled industry and the pay is never going to be great. As they are so large, there's always going to be a skew towards those low paying jobs, as people regardless of skills and education are always going to need work. 

[JFW657]

22 minutes ago, I am Reality said:

You must have missed my reference to public space - Lake Eola. I was making that Orlando can better leverage the tens of millions of visitors to draw people downtown. 

I am very well aware of privately-financed commercial real estate.  If there is demand, it will be built. Period. Developers do not build for no reason.  There is no demand here in Orlando (or else more projects would be built). Even the new 26-story building going up downtown is  mostly parking. 

Point taken. 

But the way you worded the comment, it sounded like you expected the city to initiate, finance and oversee  construction of a new downtown area. 

All that aside, even doing what you propose to Lake Eola Park would be very difficult, if not impossible, due to the fact that the lake occupies the vast majority of the park. There's just not much land left to do anything with.

Me, I'd be happy if they built a short stone wall around the perimeter. 

But then, everyone already knows that I'm obsessed with that idea to the point of beating it to death.

[dcluley98]

1 hour ago, I am Reality said:

It's funny how everyone is obsessed with height. Seriously, does that really vindicate Orlando as a major city? What Orlando needs is good-paying professional jobs. The rest will take care of itself. There is no reason to even visit downtown right now. Also, downtown has done nothing to attract the 6o+ million visitors to Orlando each year.  Lake Eola is a below-average city park with no appeal whatsoever.  I suggest building a true landmark downtown (something like the solar forest in Singapore). It would not be cheap, but would attract millions of people downtown and create a high-tech/innovative environment for the local economy. It's time to move away from minimum-wage jobs here.

While I agree with you about jobs and large corporate presence that is needed, I wholeheartedly disagree that "Downtown has done nothing to attract the 60+ million visitors to Orlando each year." Case in point:

Dr. Phillips Performing Arts Center
Amway Center (and hosting NBA All-star game)
Citrus Bowl Renovation (and hosting Pro-bowl)
Orlando City Soccer Club and Stadium
I-4 Ultimate to get people here easily and have a park under it
UCF Downtown Campus and beginning of Creative Village
Numerous new hotels

There are also talks by Orlando Museum of Art to relocate downtown. 

Orlando IS trying to bring people into downtown. It's a process, and it is slowly progressing, but progressing in the right direction. 

[I am Reality]

10 minutes ago, bqknight said:

Here's the thing. We aren't NYC, Chicago or even Atlanta,  not even close. I don't think anyone on this board thinks we are. It's a board about discussing projects in Orlando, including skyscrapers and high-rises. 

I have lived elsewhere and I didn't think it was special at all, that's why I moved. I know Orlando doesn't have the best nightlife, restaurants or parks but (at least now) it's quite a vibrant, growing, young city and that's why I think it's so special. 

As long as the theme parks are here, there's always going to be those low paying jobs. It's not a skilled industry and the pay is never going to be great. As they are so large, there's always going to be a skew towards those low paying jobs, as people regardless of skills and education are always going to need work. 

Austin

Portland

Pittsburg 

Charlotte 

San Antonio

Denver

San Jose

Raliegh/Durham

Salt Lake City

These are similarly/sized cities or, in some cases, much smaller.

All have plentiful high/wage jobs.

All have great standards of living.

if the Orlando economy is broken, we can fix it.  It takes political will.

Vibrancy is not manufacturred with tall buildings and traffic. If takes expendable income.

 

 

[JFW657]

9 minutes ago, bqknight said:

Here's the thing. We aren't NYC, Chicago or even Atlanta,  not even close. I don't think anyone on this board thinks we are. It's a board about discussing projects in Orlando, including skyscrapers and high-rises. 

I have lived elsewhere and I didn't think it was special at all, that's why I moved. I know Orlando doesn't have the best nightlife, restaurants or parks but (at least now) it's quite a vibrant, growing, young city and that's why I think it's so special. 

As long as the theme parks are here, there's always going to be those low paying jobs. It's not a skilled industry and the pay is never going to be great. As they are so large, there's always going to be a skew towards those low paying jobs, as people regardless of skills and education are always going to need work. 

Mr Reality did kind of misrepresent the prevailing mindset here at UP Orlando. 

Yes, we want to see more impressive looking (taller and sleeker) buildings go up in our currently less than impressive looking downtown.

So what?

Does he expect us to, or would he be happier if, we DIDN'T discuss high rise buildings in a discussion forum whose sole purpose is THE DISCUSSION OF HIGH RISE BUILDINGS?

Hel - LO???

Why else would we be here in the first place, if not for the fact that WE LIKE TALL BUILDINGS AND WE LIKE TALKING ABOUT THEM AND WE'D LIKE TO SEE MORE OF THEM HERE IN ORLANDO? 

If we seem obsessed with height, it's possible we have a Napoleon Complex vis-a-vis our downtown. 

[I am Reality]

14 minutes ago, dcluley98 said:

While I agree with you about jobs and large corporate presence that is needed, I wholeheartedly disagree that "Downtown has done nothing to attract the 60+ million visitors to Orlando each year." Case in point:

Dr. Phillips Performing Arts Center
Amway Center (and hosting NBA All-star game)
Citrus Bowl Renovation (and hosting Pro-bowl)
Orlando City Soccer Club and Stadium
I-4 Ultimate to get people here easily and have a park under it
UCF Downtown Campus and beginning of Creative Village
Numerous new hotels

There are also talks by Orlando Museum of Art to relocate downtown. 

Orlando IS trying to bring people into downtown. It's a process, and it is slowly progressing, but progressing in the right direction. 

I agree they are impressive facilities. But every city has a stadiums/arenas and performing arts centers. Creative Village is probably the best thing to happen downtown (assuming the students don't simply commute in & out).

[bqknight]

11 minutes ago, I am Reality said:

Austin

Portland

Pittsburg 

Charlotte 

San Antonio

Denver

San Jose

Raliegh/Durham

Salt Lake City

These are similarly/sized cities or, in some cases, much smaller.

All have plentiful high/wage jobs.

All have great standards of living.

if the Orlando economy is broken, we can fix it.  It takes political will.

Vibrancy is not manufacturred with tall buildings and traffic. If takes expendable income.

 

 

I'm just not sure I agree with you here or about what you said about facilities. 

You're focus seems to be on the theme parks and low paying jobs .- which makes me believe you or people you know are part of that. The Orlando core, the city that DOES have life, does have vibrancy and very much does have culture is filled with people mostly in those higher paying jobs. Like I said, I get that there is a large amount of low paying jobs that probably does inhibit the Downtown Core from growing faster but that core that does exist is quite a good place to live. 

[I am Reality]

Nope, I am a professional (an attorney).  And I go to those places you are referring to.  It is a tiny and unimpressive scene compared to other smilarly-sized city. 

I know Orlando can do better economically. That is what I am arguing for. We can stop dumping billions into a convention-center that only reinforces the low-wage economy. There are a number of smaller tech & financial-tech ("Fintech") firms that should be given financial support/tax breaks to grow.  Like I proposed above, we can build a statement monument (like the solar forest in Singapore) that both draws people downtown AND fosters an innovative environment.  High-tech businesses that may be willing to relocate want high-density development & light rail (a big expense, I know.  But SunRail uses technology from 1910. Can it possibly be less impressive?)  There are a number of things that can be done to grow the economy the RIGHT way.

[popsiclebrandon]

Pittsburgh has like 4k people living in its downtown. The downtown department stores and everything there are gone. They do have some new restaurants there and one small area there has a bit of nightlife but that is not a city to model our downtown after. And they have many large buildings.