Downtown Orlando Project Discussion

[IAmFloridaBorn]

10 minutes ago, Jernigan said:

Per GrowthSpotter, the Travellodge is under contract and set to be redeveloped as a larger hotel 

I would be excited, but larger could mean so little. Either way a redevelopment is good news.

[nite owℓ]

BTW, the city diner is also included in the Travelodge sale (thankfully). That whole corner is about to clean up quite a bit.

[popsiclebrandon]

Wow with the wedge and this that area is going to be a lot nicer.
Although it would be nice to see downtown have some sort of budget hotel, just a nicer one than we have now.

[codypet]

9 hours ago, Jernigan said:

Per GrowthSpotter, the Travellodge is under contract and set to be redeveloped as a larger hotel 

Watch the Historic Orlando people scream and throw a fit at the loss of another old Orlando building.

[spenser1058]

11 minutes ago, codypet said:

Watch the Historic Orlando people scream and throw a fit at the loss of another old Orlando building.

This Historic Orlando people is not screaming - hopefully, it will be a good fit. What the Travelodge had that I fear we might lose is a very user-friendly scale. Too often, the megaprojects we get today are overpowering and do little to encourage getting out and walking around.

[orlandouprise]

On ‎2‎/‎10‎/‎2018 at 5:55 PM, Boomer136 said:

As I compare Orlando to the cities I visit I believe Orlando is the poster child for the lack of synergy. Other areas use all their assets in support of each other. Vibrant downtowns have tourists and event attendees walking, eating and shopping in them. The fiefdoms that are set up, both private (ie: WDW and Universal working on keeping guests on their property the whole time) and governmental (ie; OC vs the City vs Lake Nona) mean all the nodes of Orlando are 30 minutes by car away from each other. It's not New Yorkers that keep Broadway alive. Chicago would NOT still be running if that were so. Orlando area is a bunch of islands.

...HITS NAIL ON THE HEAD!

[alex]

Purely speculative, but looking at the proposer's website, they have some decently urban projects:

Here are their current Florida hotels.

[JFW657]

43 minutes ago, spenser1058 said:

This Historic Orlando people is not screaming - hopefully, it will be a good fit. What the Travelodge had that I fear we might lose is a very user-friendly scale. Too often, the megaprojects we get today are overpowering and do little to encourage getting out and walking around.

Exactly. There is nothing architecturally significant about that building, it doesn't represent any  kind of rare example of any kind of desirable architectural style, and it's not really even that old in terms of what constitutes and old building. Probably built in the 60's, I'm guessing. 

Certainly, it's always a bit "sad" to see a familiar old landmark torn down, but this one is not something that's going to generate a lot tears being shed.

I hope that whatever goes in it's place, has a small, street facing diner/eatery with it's own entrance to replace the one that's there now.

[cwetteland]

On 2/10/2018 at 5:55 PM, Boomer136 said:

As I compare Orlando to the cities I visit I believe Orlando is the poster child for the lack of synergy. Other areas use all their assets in support of each other. Vibrant downtowns have tourists and event attendees walking, eating and shopping in them. The fiefdoms that are set up, both private (ie: WDW and Universal working on keeping guests on their property the whole time) and governmental (ie; OC vs the City vs Lake Nona) mean all the nodes of Orlando are 30 minutes by car away from each other. It's not New Yorkers that keep Broadway alive. Chicago would NOT still be running if that were so. Orlando area is a bunch of islands.

Comparing Orlando with New York and Chicago is Apples and Oranges.  New York (pop. 8,550,405) and Chicago  (pop,  2,720,546) are big draws because of their populations and everything that goes with that, big buildings, big museums, big venues.   Orlando (pop. 238,300)  is 10x smaller than Chicago and 20x smaller than NYC.  Our relatively tiny population has neither size nor history, and thus not the downtown attractions.  Even at that, our population would be significantly smaller, (Lakeland-like) and OIA would be Daytona-like if it weren't for the attractions.   That is what it is.  We are what we are.   Do people in Denver complain that the tourists arriving at DEN pass through the city and head for Aspen and Vail?   I doubt it.

The Statue of Liberty began construction in 1875, the same year Orlando became a town.

Another poster the other day lamented in shame that Orlando (the 69th city by population) didn't even make the Amazon Top 20.   Really?  Get some perspective.  It would have been great, but was always a long shot.

[popsiclebrandon]

Something brick there would be cool next to the brick church.

[JFW657]

7 minutes ago, popsiclebrandon said:

Something brick there would be cool next to the brick church.

Couldn't agree more.

Or at least something with some traditional overtones.

Looking at their website though, it doesn't look like they do traditional.

Or brick.

Edit: Oh wait, that one pic in alex's above post shows a bit of red brick. Promising, anyway.

Edited February 13, 2018 by JFW657

[Boomer136]

2 hours ago, cwetteland said:

Comparing Orlando with New York and Chicago is Apples and Oranges.  New York (pop. 8,550,405) and Chicago  (pop,  2,720,546) are big draws because of their populations and everything that goes with that, big buildings, big museums, big venues.   Orlando (pop. 238,300)  is 10x smaller than Chicago and 20x smaller than NYC.  Our relatively tiny population has neither size nor history, and thus not the downtown attractions.  Even at that, our population would be significantly smaller, (Lakeland-like) and OIA would be Daytona-like if it weren't for the attractions.   That is what it is.  We are what we are.   Do people in Denver complain that the tourists arriving at DEN pass through the city and head for Aspen and Vail?   I doubt it.

The Statue of Liberty began construction in 1875, the same year Orlando became a town.

Another poster the other day lamented in shame that Orlando (the 69th city by population) didn't even make the Amazon Top 20.   Really?  Get some perspective.  It would have been great, but was always a long shot.

I didn't mean to compare so much as to say even NYC doesn't rely upon it's large local population to keep things popping. And if they don't, how do we think Orlando can?

[uncreativeusername]

1 hour ago, Boomer136 said:

I didn't mean to compare so much as to say even NYC doesn't rely upon it's large local population to keep things popping. And if they don't, how do we think Orlando can?

Well, what are our priorities? The priority as I see it is for our city to become a better and better place to live, first. NYC didn't become what it is because of tourism - it became a tourist destination because of what it was. But it was a city for its people first, as have been the majority of great (even good) cities. Of course, there's a reverb effect here...the city becomes more desirable, more people/business move here, tax bases increase, the city has the resources to do even more to make the city more desirable, not to mention organic growth from the creativity of the growing population, so on and so forth. I do believe that the critical mass needs to be met by a local population first.  Tourists visit great cities, they don't make them.

I agree that there are definite synergy issues between the city, the county and other entities (although a lot of things have ended much better than I ever would have anticipated, DPAC being at the top of that list. Not to stray too far, but this is always an interesting subject to me - synergy vs. competition as a means for the greatest outcome). I also agree that the area needs to continue to make efforts to diversify the economy and raise the median income, as has been mentioned in other threads recently (I'm losing track of which elements of this recent conversation has been in which thread, and I realize I'm probably conflating numerous threads in my head right now...)

But the fact of the matter is this - Orlando is growing, and growing up, relatively healthfully (sprawl aside). 10 years ago, we didn't have DPAC, Amway, SunRail, Orlando City, UCF Downtown, and a thousand other things that aren't immediately coming to mind. Orlando's amenities were definitely anemic for a city of its size. Now the amenities are starting to match, and we're better poised for the next round of growth/maturity. Are there still many improvements to be made (i.e. is SunRail in its current form a disaster)? Of course. But I've been generally surprised at how lacking in nuance these recent debates have been. 

Edited February 13, 2018 by uncreativeusername

[AndyPok1]

3 hours ago, cwetteland said:

Comparing Orlando with New York and Chicago is Apples and Oranges.  New York (pop. 8,550,405) and Chicago  (pop,  2,720,546) are big draws because of their populations and everything that goes with that, big buildings, big museums, big venues.   Orlando (pop. 238,300)  is 10x smaller than Chicago and 20x smaller than NYC.  Our relatively tiny population has neither size nor history, and thus not the downtown attractions.  Even at that, our population would be significantly smaller, (Lakeland-like) and OIA would be Daytona-like if it weren't for the attractions.   That is what it is.  We are what we are.   Do people in Denver complain that the tourists arriving at DEN pass through the city and head for Aspen and Vail?   I doubt it.

The Statue of Liberty began construction in 1875, the same year Orlando became a town.

Another poster the other day lamented in shame that Orlando (the 69th city by population) didn't even make the Amazon Top 20.   Really?  Get some perspective.  It would have been great, but was always a long shot.

I despise using cities as population data.  The city of Columbus, OH annexed so much that it (and the suburban cities) basically takes up the entirety of Franklin County, so much so that they've largely gotten rid of county government. 

For comparison, there's roughly 900,000 people in Unincorporated Orange County compared to the 430,000 living in the cities with a majority being Orlando (240k).  Comparatively there's roughly 125,000 people in Unincorporated Franklin County compared to the 1 million living in the cities with a vast majority being Columbus (790k).  The fact that my neighbor a few blocks down who lives less than 3 miles from the CBD isn't part of the City of Orlando is a joke and is why any statistics that solely look at cities are faulty.

 

[alex]

17 hours ago, AndyPok1 said:

I despise using cities as population data.  The city of Columbus, OH annexed so much that it (and the suburban cities) basically takes up the entirety of Franklin County, so much so that they've largely gotten rid of county government. 

For comparison, there's roughly 900,000 people in Unincorporated Orange County compared to the 430,000 living in the cities with a majority being Orlando (240k).  Comparatively there's roughly 125,000 people in Unincorporated Franklin County compared to the 1 million living in the cities with a vast majority being Columbus (790k).  The fact that my neighbor a few blocks down who lives less than 3 miles from the CBD isn't part of the City of Orlando is a joke and is why any statistics that solely look at cities are faulty.

Yeah, but I don't want Orange County sprawl ruining the City of Orlando's and the City of Winter Park's decent walkscores... ;-)

[orlandoguy]

I despise using cities as population data.  The city of Columbus, OH annexed so much that it (and the suburban cities) basically takes up the entirety of Franklin County, so much so that they've largely gotten rid of county government. 
For comparison, there's roughly 900,000 people in Unincorporated Orange County compared to the 430,000 living in the cities with a majority being Orlando (240k).  Comparatively there's roughly 125,000 people in Unincorporated Franklin County compared to the 1 million living in the cities with a vast majority being Columbus (790k).
 

Isn't this the same way Jacksonville is set up, where the city is essentially the county, too?

[jrs2]

What's interesting to note, it that when using just city population, you can usually get a good correlation of how developed the urban core is.  Take Miami, Tampa, Jax, and ATL.  All of those downtowns are taller than Orlando and their populations are from 300k and up.  Similar situation when looking at Louisville, NOLA, Nashville, etc. 

Orlando is very young.  Orlando needed the building boom to not go bust over the past decade just to catch up to these places.  Now, all of these places have been doing urban renewal, including Denver, and these "cities" have become nice places to live, like downtown Orlando, but, they are all known for themes that have to do with the cities themselves, not a gigantic resort 20 miles away from the core.  

We need better marketers here, and not just for tourism.  We need business partners with the likes of Adventist Health, Martin Lockheed, Darden, CNL, Suntrust, AAA, EA Tiburon, UCF, Full Sail, etc., to help market the area to other companies.

[bqknight]

42 minutes ago, jrs2 said:

What's interesting to note, it that when using just city population, you can usually get a good correlation of how developed the urban core is.  Take Miami, Tampa, Jax, and ATL.  All of those downtowns are taller than Orlando and their populations are from 300k and up.  Similar situation when looking at Louisville, NOLA, Nashville, etc. 

Orlando is very young.  Orlando needed the building boom to not go bust over the past decade just to catch up to these places.  Now, all of these places have been doing urban renewal, including Denver, and these "cities" have become nice places to live, like downtown Orlando, but, they are all known for themes that have to do with the cities themselves, not a gigantic resort 20 miles away from the core.  

We need better marketers here, and not just for tourism.  We need business partners with the likes of Adventist Health, Martin Lockheed, Darden, CNL, Suntrust, AAA, EA Tiburon, UCF, Full Sail, etc., to help market the area to other companies.

UCF has gone ALL-IN on the Orlando front lately. Their marketing material always showcases Downtown Orlando and even the theme parks. The athletics department has even gone all-in with the "hometown team". This will obviously continue to increase as DT UCF is completed. 

[orange87]

Orlando Health to construct new office building in Downtown Orlando

https://www.bizjournals.com/orlando/news/2018/02/21/orlando-health-to-construct-new-office-building-in.html

[jrs2]

any word on the redo of the Bell? bldg at Orange & Amelia?

[spenser1058]

6 minutes ago, jrs2 said:

any word on the redo of the Bell? bldg at Orange & Amelia?

Not yet. We have to Reach Out and Touch Someone. (all our younger folks may now go, "huh?")

[codypet]

It looks like there's people constantly running in and outside of the building.

[I am Reality]

Austin was selected by Oracle - the world's 2nd largest software company - for a huge cloud-computing startup accelerator yesterday.  The project was sought after by dozens of cities. It will support cutting-edge, cloud-computing companies worldwide.

Oracle is also building a 600k sq ft campus in Austin.

That campus will employ 3,000 high-wage tech jobs. That does not include the startup accelerator, which may be located  elsewhere in Austin.

The company was attracted to Austin by the City's  "start-up ecosystem, universities and deep talent in cloud computing talent", as well as its "diversity of companies", according to the Austin American-Statesman.

Meanwhile, people in Austin are debating whether they even need Amazon HQ2.

To put Austin's success & "newness" in perspective:

Austin metro pop 1970 - 398,938

Orlando metro pop 1970 - 522,575

Austin metro pop 2017 - 2,056,405

Orlando metro pop 2017 - 2,387,138

 

[alex]

17 hours ago, orange87 said:

Orlando Health to construct new office building in Downtown Orlando

https://www.bizjournals.com/orlando/news/2018/02/21/orlando-health-to-construct-new-office-building-in.html

Looks like it's next to the Lake Lucerne development:

"Orlando Health is planning the second phase for its new downtown office building near the Orlando Regional Medical Center campus...Orlando Health is seeking to update the existing plans for the 4.88-acre site at 55 W. Gore St., according to documents filed with the city of Orlando on Feb. 20...Phase 2 entails replacing more of the surface parking with an office building of up to 60,000 square feet, as well as an additional 305 parking spaces in the garage."

This could help turn Gore into quite the urban corridor...hopefully with some street improvements like mid-block pedestrian crossings.

[HankStrong]

2 hours ago, I am Reality said:

Austin was selected by Oracle - the world's 2nd largest software company - for a huge cloud-computing startup accelerator yesterday.  The project was sought after by dozens of cities. It will support cutting-edge, cloud-computing companies worldwide.

Oracle is also building a 600k sq ft campus in Austin.

That campus will employ 3,000 high-wage tech jobs. That does not include the startup accelerator, which may be located  elsewhere in Austin.

The company was attracted to Austin by the City's  "start-up ecosystem, universities and deep talent in cloud computing talent", as well as its "diversity of companies", according to the Austin American-Statesman.

Meanwhile, people in Austin are debating whether they even need Amazon HQ2.

To put Austin's success & "newness" in perspective:

Austin metro pop 1970 - 398,938

Orlando metro pop 1970 - 522,575

Austin metro pop 2017 - 2,056,405

Orlando metro pop 2017 - 2,387,138

 

I wonder what the number of 7-11 stores looks like in comparison.  I bet we crush them!