Downtown Orlando Project Discussion

[spenser1058]

5 minutes ago, JFW657 said:

My thoughts exactly.

Agree 100%.

Wind up with Soviet era style blocks of nearly identical buildings.

Of course, with Russia hacking Facebook and the elections, that might be appropriate...*sigh*

[orange87]

33 minutes ago, spenser1058 said:

Of course, with Russia hacking Facebook and the elections, that might be appropriate...*sigh*

[orange87]

Has anybody heard anything new about Bags Inc. moving their HQ to Downtown Orlando near the Amway Center?

Edited May 2, 2018 by orange87

[sunshine]

I love this because it is actually creating an urban environment and focus on human scale. He actually want to buy land to create a park to create an urban environment. I hope he succeed.

Almost entire downtown Orlando buildings are almost identitcal to each other btw...and so are the creative village.

[AndyPok1]

15 hours ago, metal93 said:

Incoming and unpopular rant, but:

You misjudged your audience sir.

[dcluley98]

About the only thing I like about that is the park promenade down from the Amway center plaza and proposed Under-I park. The rest is uninspired development that wipes away any semblance of the history of the area and drives out local residents and businesses. Would be better off redeveloping this area organically and trying to keep at least some semblance of the local history. 

[AndyPok1]

15 minutes ago, sunshine said:

I love this because it is actually creating an urban environment and focus on human scale. He actually want to buy land to create a park to create an urban environment. I hope he succeed.

What part of Church Street between Amway and the Soccer Stadium isn't already urban?

EDIT: I guess the church parking lot isn't.  But between the HD Supply building, the market, the barbershop, and the retail building, that's a busy urban corridor that needs infilled, not razed.

Edited May 2, 2018 by AndyPok1

[sunshine]

It is urban but it is not activated to create an activity center to compliment Soccer Stadium and Amway. We need place making. The urban park with rows of shops on both side will do it.

Organic growth can only do  so much without developer to enhance it. I encourage gentrification. Paramorre been sitting idle for decades, how do you organic grow it?

 

[AndyPok1]

Love gentrification.  Don't love gentrification when it involves tearing up a moderately safe historic community with lifetime residents.  The soccer stadium/church thing aside...

I didn't realize how much of that first block is owned by the city, and the second block owned by the supermarket owners

Starting at Division: Housing Authority, 532 W Church (new restaurant opening), City owned parking, Elk's Lodge, City owned parking, Historic Church
Starting at Terry: Sy's Supermarket owns basically the entire block except for the garage on the south side.  Orlando City owns everything but the church on the north side.

So ripe for infill.  I think it's clear the city is waiting for the right people to sell it off to.

[prahaboheme]

Putting aside the obvious issues of gentrification and "urban renewal", I am surprised that so many are writing off Bob Snow as some mature wannabe developer.

He brought retail, restaurants, and renowned nightclubs to downtown Orlando when every other downtown in Florida struggled to even attract local residents let alone tourists.

I'd like to see more about his vision here before causally dismissing it.

[spenser1058]

8 minutes ago, prahaboheme said:

Putting aside the obvious issues of gentrification and "urban renewal", I am surprised that so many are writing off Bob Snow as some mature wannabe developer.

He brought retail, restaurants, and renowned nightclubs to downtown Orlando when every other downtown in Florida struggled to even attract local residents let alone tourists.

I'd like to see more about his vision here before causally dismissing it.

Bob Snow's last effort in trying to resurrect the Cheyenne Saloon was half-hearted at best. Sure it happened during a severe lull on Church St., but compare it with Hamburger Mary's which survived and went on to thrive. This despite the local reputation of Cheyenne vs. Mary being brand new to the area.

I find it humorous the idea of Bob Snow going into affordable housing, especially in Parramore. Ever wonder why CSS went to great lengths to stay on one side of the tracks? His comments along the way about Mary's were also off-putting. Think about that.

Finally, all of Bob's efforts, even when successful, came to naught, be it Pensacola, CSS, Vegas or the resurrection of Cheyenne. The decision to sell CSS to sell an entertainment complex to a utility with no such background also indicated not much interest in the community (a complaint also heard when he abandoned Pensacola.)

All in all, we can thank Bob for what he did once upon a time but suggest he may not be the man for this new role.

If I'm wrong, I'll be happy to acknowledge my error.

 

[prahaboheme]

17 minutes ago, spenser1058 said:

Bob Snow's last effort in trying to resurrect the Cheyenne Saloon was half-hearted at best. Sure it happened during a severe lull on Church St., but compare it with Hamburger Mary's which survived and went on to thrive. This despite the local reputation of Cheyenne vs. Mary being brand new to the area.

I find it humorous the idea of Bob Snow going into affordable housing, especially in Parramore. Ever wonder why CSS went to great lengths to stay on one side of the tracks? His comments along the way about Mary's were also off-putting. Think about that.

Finally, all of Bob's efforts, even when successful, came to naught, be it Pensacola, CSS, Vegas or the resurrection of Cheyenne. The decision to sell CSS to sell an entertainment complex to a utility with no such background also indicated not much interest in the community (a complaint also heard when he abandoned Pensacola.)

All in all, we can thank Bob for what he did once upon a time but suggest he may not be the man for this new role.

If I'm wrong, I'll be happy to acknowledge my error.

 

The late-failure of CSS is linked to Disney and Universal luring those tourists back onto their properties via the former downtown Disney / Pleasure Island build up and Citywalk.  In its heyday, CSS was definitely not a failure.

[sunshine]

The failure now is linked to current administration.

[spenser1058]

That certainly played a significant part. However, we'll never know if an aggressive entrepreneur could have sought out alternatives? I-Drive folks were never locked on the Disney or USF campuses. The local population was exploding and additional marketing to locals may have helped (nickel beer nights stayed popular pretty much to the end.) The problem was that the Baltimore utility that was the last owner really wasn't equipped to try.

[Dale]

23 minutes ago, sunshine said:

The failure now is linked to current administration.

Are you even allowed to say that ?

[I am Reality]

"Bob Snow had a great idea but couldn't afford to follow through."

- Rob Stillwell of Boyd Gaming, which bought the Snow-owned Main Street Station casino out of bankruptcy (Las Vegas Sun article)

Everyone is right to be skeptical of this undercapitalized project. 

[prahaboheme]

1 hour ago, spenser1058 said:

That certainly played a significant part. However, we'll never know if an aggressive entrepreneur could have sought out alternatives? I-Drive folks were never locked on the Disney or USF campuses. The local population was exploding and additional marketing to locals may have helped (nickel beer nights stayed popular pretty much to the end.) The problem was that the Baltimore utility that was the last owner really wasn't equipped to try.

Well to be fair, an agressive "entrepreneur" did seek out alternatives (Lou Pearlman). We all know how that turned out.

[spenser1058]

6 minutes ago, prahaboheme said:

Well to be fair, an agressive "entrepreneur" did seek out alternatives (Lou Pearlman). We all know how that turned out.

Good point. I was hoping for someone just a tad more competent, though.

The thing is, without delving in to why I think Bob's time has come and gone, at his peak he was a Barnumesque master of calling attention to Rosie's and later the entire CSS complex. 

At the end, when it was fighting an existential battle against huge corporations (plus the loss of the navy base where CSS was one of the few approved places for recruits to party), the complex at the hands of a utility had no background in treating the place any differently than a super sized Farrell's. 

Ironically, plenty of local bars sprung up along Orange Avenue and held their own against PI and City Walk by going aggressively local and making AndyPok proud.

Nevertheless, I'm almost 60 and Bob's a good bit older than I am. He already seemed past his prime in the attempt to bring back Cheyenne nearly a decade ago. I wonder if he has the energy to take on such a huge new project at this stage in his life.

[popsiclebrandon]

It isn't going to happen because Bob doesn't own the land needed to do this and the people that do are quoted as saying they already have other plans and aren't selling. So it isn't happening unless Bob comes up with crazy money to buy a lot of people out.

[HankStrong]

We can only hope that Andy drinks enough on the weekends to bring more bars to downtown.

 

YOU CAN DO IT!

[codypet]

I'm sure Andy and I have done more than our share in keeping the existing bars open.  Kickball is a hell of a drug.

[spenser1058]

2 hours ago, popsiclebrandon said:

It isn't going to happen because Bob doesn't own the land needed to do this and the people that do are quoted as saying they already have other plans and aren't selling. So it isn't happening unless Bob comes up with crazy money to buy a lot of people out.

Of course, without any land you CAN build a 40-story assisted living facility. Or maybe you have to be from Chicago to do that. Hmmmm...

Edited May 3, 2018 by spenser1058

[AndyPok1]

I do other things besides drink :sideeye:

[spenser1058]

38 minutes ago, AndyPok1 said:

I do other things besides drink :sideeye:

*plays flip cup with Andy and codypet for exercise*

[sunshine]

 

Look at that visor?