Downtown Orlando Project Discussion

[alex 687]

15 minutes ago, codypet said:

Wow just like that historic church doesn't exist.

That was my first reaction, but then I saw the small rectangle south of where the church sits now. Maybe the idea is to move it?

The plan stretches over 10 acres and is supposed to include mixed-use buildings and affordable housing. Here's a 3D view from the article:

That said, the article makes it sound like the plan is very unlikely to succeed, with a dozen different land owners—one of them being the owners of 532 W Church St, where that restaurant is planned.

[Kaz 107]

Ideally this design would incorporate some of the historic buildings (like the greater refuge memorial church) rather than knock them down. 

[sunshine 626]

sounds like the Orlando Magic Complex....

[Jernigan 2652]

Is this Bob Snows project?

[popsiclebrandon 798]

Sounds like Bob trying to convince the city to take his bid on the Bags land. This project is as likely as our 100 story unicorn medical project.

[metal93 244]

9 hours ago, sunshine said:

Developer seeks help from city of Orlando for 10-acre redevelopment in Parramore

http://www.growthspotter.com/news/downtown-orlando-developments/gs-bob-snow-concept-plan-parramore-park-downtown-orlando-20180430-story.html#nt=oft03a-1la1

Incoming and unpopular rant, but:

I've never liked proposals like this. Absolutely no regard for the historic parts of Parramore or the character of the neighborhood. Most of the buildings along this stretch wouldn't be missed (except for the refuge church and the buildings flanking the west side of Parramore between Church and Jackson, the gas station of course should be torn down), but that's besides the point. The residents should be alarmed about this sort of thing. Houses, places of worship, and black businesses all getting cleared away and pushed further out in the name of gentrification. Instead of ploping down block-long buildings, a far more interesting proposal would be smaller buildings inserted into the gaps left by the existing buildings - some of which could be demolished and others renovated to a presentable state. It allows for a better streetscape of old and new buildings instead of blocks of similar looking new buildings built by the same developer.

I know there's a lot of talk about lack of park space, but I don't feel that putting park space in this location is appropriate. Church Street is supposed to be urban. The Amway Center arguably has plaza space on the corners of its block, the MEC will feature a plaza, next to the stadium and the temple there's going to be another plaza. Go a little east and you're in the future Bridge District park. Not sure what happened to that little park off the southeast corner of Church and Lee, the city just walled up the whole thing. It just seems over saturated to me to add yet another park space. Luckily, I don't see it happening. There would be too much pushback from Parramore residents.

[spenser1058 5353]

6 minutes ago, popsiclebrandon said:

Sounds like Bob trying to convince the city to take his bid on the Bags land. This project is as likely as our 100 story unicorn medical project.

Thank you. Bob Snow doing affordable housing? Not to mention Bob is the last person to have the diversity cred to navigate Parramore.

Sorry, but I'm really skeptical about this one.

[JFW657 4539]

1 hour ago, metal93 said:

Incoming and unpopular rant, but:

I've never liked proposals like this. 

....blocks of similar looking new buildings built by the same developer.

My thoughts exactly.

Agree 100%.

Wind up with Soviet era style blocks of nearly identical buildings.

[spenser1058 5353]

5 minutes ago, JFW657 said:

My thoughts exactly.

Agree 100%.

Wind up with Soviet era style blocks of nearly identical buildings.

Of course, with Russia hacking Facebook and the elections, that might be appropriate...*sigh*

[orange87 750]

33 minutes ago, spenser1058 said:

Of course, with Russia hacking Facebook and the elections, that might be appropriate...*sigh*

[orange87 750]

Has anybody heard anything new about Bags Inc. moving their HQ to Downtown Orlando near the Amway Center?

Edited May 2, 2018 by orange87

[sunshine 626]

I love this because it is actually creating an urban environment and focus on human scale. He actually want to buy land to create a park to create an urban environment. I hope he succeed.

Almost entire downtown Orlando buildings are almost identitcal to each other btw...and so are the creative village.

[AndyPok1 992]

15 hours ago, metal93 said:

Incoming and unpopular rant, but:

You misjudged your audience sir.

[dcluley98 3414]

About the only thing I like about that is the park promenade down from the Amway center plaza and proposed Under-I park. The rest is uninspired development that wipes away any semblance of the history of the area and drives out local residents and businesses. Would be better off redeveloping this area organically and trying to keep at least some semblance of the local history. 

[AndyPok1 992]

15 minutes ago, sunshine said:

I love this because it is actually creating an urban environment and focus on human scale. He actually want to buy land to create a park to create an urban environment. I hope he succeed.

What part of Church Street between Amway and the Soccer Stadium isn't already urban?

EDIT: I guess the church parking lot isn't.  But between the HD Supply building, the market, the barbershop, and the retail building, that's a busy urban corridor that needs infilled, not razed.

Edited May 2, 2018 by AndyPok1

[sunshine 626]

It is urban but it is not activated to create an activity center to compliment Soccer Stadium and Amway. We need place making. The urban park with rows of shops on both side will do it.

Organic growth can only do  so much without developer to enhance it. I encourage gentrification. Paramorre been sitting idle for decades, how do you organic grow it?

 

[AndyPok1 992]

Love gentrification.  Don't love gentrification when it involves tearing up a moderately safe historic community with lifetime residents.  The soccer stadium/church thing aside...

I didn't realize how much of that first block is owned by the city, and the second block owned by the supermarket owners

Starting at Division: Housing Authority, 532 W Church (new restaurant opening), City owned parking, Elk's Lodge, City owned parking, Historic Church
Starting at Terry: Sy's Supermarket owns basically the entire block except for the garage on the south side.  Orlando City owns everything but the church on the north side.

So ripe for infill.  I think it's clear the city is waiting for the right people to sell it off to.

[prahaboheme 1658]

Putting aside the obvious issues of gentrification and "urban renewal", I am surprised that so many are writing off Bob Snow as some mature wannabe developer.

He brought retail, restaurants, and renowned nightclubs to downtown Orlando when every other downtown in Florida struggled to even attract local residents let alone tourists.

I'd like to see more about his vision here before causally dismissing it.

[spenser1058 5353]

8 minutes ago, prahaboheme said:

Putting aside the obvious issues of gentrification and "urban renewal", I am surprised that so many are writing off Bob Snow as some mature wannabe developer.

He brought retail, restaurants, and renowned nightclubs to downtown Orlando when every other downtown in Florida struggled to even attract local residents let alone tourists.

I'd like to see more about his vision here before causally dismissing it.

Bob Snow's last effort in trying to resurrect the Cheyenne Saloon was half-hearted at best. Sure it happened during a severe lull on Church St., but compare it with Hamburger Mary's which survived and went on to thrive. This despite the local reputation of Cheyenne vs. Mary being brand new to the area.

I find it humorous the idea of Bob Snow going into affordable housing, especially in Parramore. Ever wonder why CSS went to great lengths to stay on one side of the tracks? His comments along the way about Mary's were also off-putting. Think about that.

Finally, all of Bob's efforts, even when successful, came to naught, be it Pensacola, CSS, Vegas or the resurrection of Cheyenne. The decision to sell CSS to sell an entertainment complex to a utility with no such background also indicated not much interest in the community (a complaint also heard when he abandoned Pensacola.)

All in all, we can thank Bob for what he did once upon a time but suggest he may not be the man for this new role.

If I'm wrong, I'll be happy to acknowledge my error.

 

[prahaboheme 1658]

17 minutes ago, spenser1058 said:

Bob Snow's last effort in trying to resurrect the Cheyenne Saloon was half-hearted at best. Sure it happened during a severe lull on Church St., but compare it with Hamburger Mary's which survived and went on to thrive. This despite the local reputation of Cheyenne vs. Mary being brand new to the area.

I find it humorous the idea of Bob Snow going into affordable housing, especially in Parramore. Ever wonder why CSS went to great lengths to stay on one side of the tracks? His comments along the way about Mary's were also off-putting. Think about that.

Finally, all of Bob's efforts, even when successful, came to naught, be it Pensacola, CSS, Vegas or the resurrection of Cheyenne. The decision to sell CSS to sell an entertainment complex to a utility with no such background also indicated not much interest in the community (a complaint also heard when he abandoned Pensacola.)

All in all, we can thank Bob for what he did once upon a time but suggest he may not be the man for this new role.

If I'm wrong, I'll be happy to acknowledge my error.

 

The late-failure of CSS is linked to Disney and Universal luring those tourists back onto their properties via the former downtown Disney / Pleasure Island build up and Citywalk.  In its heyday, CSS was definitely not a failure.

[sunshine 626]

The failure now is linked to current administration.

[spenser1058 5353]

That certainly played a significant part. However, we'll never know if an aggressive entrepreneur could have sought out alternatives? I-Drive folks were never locked on the Disney or USF campuses. The local population was exploding and additional marketing to locals may have helped (nickel beer nights stayed popular pretty much to the end.) The problem was that the Baltimore utility that was the last owner really wasn't equipped to try.

[Dale 2686]

23 minutes ago, sunshine said:

The failure now is linked to current administration.

Are you even allowed to say that ?

[I am Reality 196]

"Bob Snow had a great idea but couldn't afford to follow through."

- Rob Stillwell of Boyd Gaming, which bought the Snow-owned Main Street Station casino out of bankruptcy (Las Vegas Sun article)

Everyone is right to be skeptical of this undercapitalized project. 

[prahaboheme 1658]

1 hour ago, spenser1058 said:

That certainly played a significant part. However, we'll never know if an aggressive entrepreneur could have sought out alternatives? I-Drive folks were never locked on the Disney or USF campuses. The local population was exploding and additional marketing to locals may have helped (nickel beer nights stayed popular pretty much to the end.) The problem was that the Baltimore utility that was the last owner really wasn't equipped to try.

Well to be fair, an agressive "entrepreneur" did seek out alternatives (Lou Pearlman). We all know how that turned out.