Downtown Orlando Project Discussion

[JFW657]

2 hours ago, spenser1058 said:

Being thoughtful about preserving the best parts of a city gives you a Savannah. Taking the laissez faire approach gives you Casselberry.

Orlando has plenty of space downtown for high rises without destroying the structures that connect us with our history.

In fact, there is space on the east side of Lake Eola to do just that. Personally, I’d rather keep the EO Inn and buy the two lots available to extend the park to Summerlin, but I know that will never happen with this administration.

The truth is that Buddy has been mayor for so long that people just assume the areas he has chosen to ignore can’t be touched due to some holy writ. That’s definitely not the case.

The reason the mayor of Orlando has long called the shots on what happens in Central Florida even though the city is relatively small is because of the power granted by a strong mayor form of government. 

An awful lot can happen if the occupant of the office chooses to address a given issue. The venues happened and Parramore as a neighborhood got ignored because that’s what Buddy wanted to happen.

By the same token, Orlando’s intown neighborhoods were preserved (a rarity among Sun Belt cities) and downtown revitalization happened because Mayor Bill made it a priority.

Baldwin Park became what it did and didn’t simply lie fallow like so many former military bases because of Mayor Glenda (along with Bill behind the scenes back in commercial lawyer mode).

We can have the downtown we want. Our mayors starting with Carl Langford have all burned out sometime in their third terms. We currently see the process repeating itself.

I don't see Buddy as the evil, heartless villain who cares not a whit about our history or historic structures that you portray him to be. Occasionally, in certain instances, things have to be weighed against one another and difficult choices made. Of course, in the case of the Woolworth and McCrory block, the correct decision was pretty obvious and he made it.

As we all know (ad nauseum I guess), I personally am glad Dyer allowed those two old derelict buildings to be knocked down. Desperate measures were required because if they hadn't been demo'd, they'd likely still be standing there today, housing a tattoo parlor and a vape shop or something, while wasting an extremely valuable parcel of downtown real estate, not generating squat in terms of property and business tax revenue and worse yet, they'd still be giving everyone who passed by there, the (accurate) impression that Orlando was a bush-league city that couldn't even get a decent or semi impressive looking high-rise complex built on the most high-profile intersection in downtown.

And Orlando still wouldn't be Savannah.

The idea that Dyer would've been able to coerce or cajole any serious developer into incorporating those tatty little facades into their designs, is just wishful thinking

I'm all on board 110% for historic preservation when it involves buildings that merit preservation. The southwest corner of Eola Park being a case in point. I'm all for creating more park space around the metro area too. Where it's feasible. But let's face it, some ideas just push the limits a bit too far. Destroying that quaint brick paved section of Eola Drive just to replace it with more grass, is a bit extreme IMHO.

[spenser1058]

Have you missed the block of E. Washington and N. Osceola since they became part of the park?

 I’m OK with leaving Eola Dr. open if that gets us the additional parcels.

Probably because I live on it and have to deal with it several times a day (don’t get me started on yahoos in Suburbans trying to parallel park and blocking traffic for 20 minutes), quaint is not the term I’d use.

Edited October 13, 2019 by spenser1058

[spenser1058]

The other thing is, to take Jaymont and Colonial Plaza as just two examples, the City gave incentives for the construction of both.

Accordingly, we were perfectly in our rights to work toward something besides bland, cookie-cutter nothingness on both.

Instead, we just caved. Each day, our lived environment as a result looks more like I-Drive or Maitland Center. We can do better.

Edited October 13, 2019 by spenser1058

[JFW657]

1 hour ago, spenser1058 said:

Have you missed the block of E. Washington and N. Osceola since they became part of the park?

 I’m OK with leaving Eola Dr. open if that gets us the additional parcels.

Probably because I live on it and have to deal with it several times a day (don’t get me started on yahoos in Suburbans trying to parallel park and blocking traffic for 20 minutes), quaint is not the term I’d use.

Well then, they could institute a compact car only parking policy on Eola Dr. if people in large SUVs is really that bad of a problem. I don't see how knocking down a row of attractive, tax revenue-producing buildings (after first having to purchase them, likely through eminent domain), then tearing up a nice street with revenue producing meters, just to provide more grassy space for hipsters to play Frisbee, is going to help parking in the area or help the city financially.

I admit I don't go down there much anymore, but just because some jerks who feel the need to drive vehicles that resemble tanks occasionally use Eola Drive, does not IMO destroy the overall picturesque look and feel of the area.

I just think the area around the park would be losing something that adds to its appeal and that loss would be more than any gain achieved by expanding the park to Summerlin.

Just differing opinions I guess.

1 hour ago, spenser1058 said:

The other thing is, to take Jaymont and Colonial Plaza as just two examples, the City gave incentives for the construction of both.

Accordingly, we were perfectly in our rights to work toward something besides bland, cookie-cutter nothingness on both.

Instead, we just caved. Each day, our lived environment as a result looks more like I-Drive or Maitland Center. We can do better.

They can only force developers into so much before they just leave the table and go somewhere else. The original Jaymont tower proposal back in the 80's is proof of that. Tall, sleek, beautiful high rise proposed for the block, all ready to start construction upon final approval, then these rubes think they can force the developer to incorporate those two old 1940's era facades into their ultra-modern design concept. And we know what the response to that was, don't we? Something involving a few middle fingers in a few faces, I believe.

If a developer who is willing to put up a large project has only so much capital to work with, and the city pushes too hard with their demands for better and better, they run the real risk of killing the project and there's not usually another bigger and wealthier developer lined up to step in and fill the void. Then we end up with another Pizzutti block.  Three decades and counting, a large empty dirt lot has sat smack-dab in the middle of downtown. And we're supposed to get picky with our demands again?

Sticking to one's guns sounds good and all, but eventually you just end up sitting there by yourself with nothing but your guns.

[spenser1058]

8 minutes ago, JFW657 said:

Well then, they could institute a compact car only parking policy on Eola Dr. if people in large SUVs is really that bad of a problem. I don't see how knocking down a row of attractive, tax revenue-producing buildings (after first having to purchase them, likely through eminent domain), then tearing up a nice street with revenue producing meters, just to provide more grassy space for hipsters to play Frisbee, is going to help parking in the area or help the city financially.

I admit I don't go down there much anymore, but just because some jerks who feel the need to drive vehicles that resemble tanks occasionally use Eola Drive, does not IMO destroy the overall picturesque look and feel of the area.

I just think the area around the park would be losing something that adds to its appeal and that loss would be more than any gain achieved by expanding the park to Summerlin.

Just differing opinions I guess.

They can only force developers into so much before they just leave the table and go somewhere else. The original Jaymont tower proposal back in the 80's is proof of that. Tall, sleek, beautiful high rise proposed for the block, all ready to start construction upon final approval, then these rubes think they can force the developer to incorporate those two old 1940's era facades into their ultra-modern design concept. And we know what the response to that was, don't we? Something involving a few middle fingers in a few faces, I believe.

If a developer who is willing to put up a large project has only so much capital to work with, and the city pushes too hard with their demands for better and better, they run the real risk of killing the project and there's not usually another bigger and wealthier developer lined up to step in and fill the void. Then we end up with another Pizzutti block.  Three decades and counting, a large empty dirt lot has sat smack-dab in the middle of downtown. And we're supposed to get picky with our demands again?

Sticking to one's guns sounds good and all, but eventually you just end up sitting there by yourself with nothing but your guns.

I don’t want to take out any of the buildings on Eola Drive (at least any time soon). I’m talking about just buying the two empty lots.

Every building on that stretch currently has access via Summerlin, Washington or Robinson so if you closed Eola Drive they would all still have access.

As it is, Eola Drive is already closed a quarter of the year or more anyway due to special events (example, for PRIDE).

Edited October 13, 2019 by spenser1058

[popsiclebrandon]

I would be highly in favor of closing and ripping up Eola Dr to expand the park. The only real question would be how to handle big events that use that road for staging but I'm sure there is an easy solution, probably just use Washington.

[AmIReal]

I lost track of what we were discussing here. If it is the Ladies Club buying part of the 3 properties beside them and the City buying the rest to add to the park, then good for them. 

If it was about tearing down the 7-11 building, City Centre and the Lubbe house, then that has already been decided. The City approved that demo and the rights to build (I think) 24 stories back in the summer of '15.  I assume those entitlements still exist.

I do know the Rosalind Club is very adamant about not building next to them, but the above plan was approved even with their vocal opposition. The only way that would likely change is if the Club bought the property. Which, per Brandon's rumor, may be the plan.

[spenser1058]

United Trophy restoration on N. Orange - I’m looking forward to this one:

https://www.thedailycity.com/post/united-trophy-awards-building

From Daily City

[popsiclebrandon]

44 minutes ago, spenser1058 said:

United Trophy restoration on N. Orange - I’m looking forward to this one:

https://www.thedailycity.com/post/united-trophy-awards-building

From Daily City

Looks the same so far but I love what Garber is doing and hope this one turns out great.

[HankStrong]

On ‎10‎/‎12‎/‎2019 at 1:17 PM, spenser1058 said:

I’ll lay down in front of Buddy’s Bulldozers before they take out the Rosalind Club.

If you get tired or need to pop off to the pub, just convince Mr. Prosser to take your place. 

[codypet]

1 hour ago, popsiclebrandon said:

Looks the same so far but I love what Garber is doing and hope this one turns out great.

The old awning collapsed so I'm glad the call it to pretty much put back what was there.  Venue 578 is looking like its wrapping up next door.  Any news on the Bellsouth Building?

Edited October 14, 2019 by codypet

[JFW657]

4 hours ago, spenser1058 said:

United Trophy restoration on N. Orange - I’m looking forward to this one:

https://www.thedailycity.com/post/united-trophy-awards-building

From Daily City

Same here.

I'm tired of being awarded trophies that came from such a shabby, run down building.

Finally, I'll be able to display my trophies with pride.

Too bad I have no trophy wife to display alongside them...  

[AmIReal]

Is there a DXV in Parramore topic yet? If not, we may need one. They got rezoning approval from  Municipal Planning today along with CSP2&3 and the Lennar Homes resort on Idrive.

"The MPB approved Hirschfeld’s rezoning request for the tower, which will include ground-floor retail uses, a valet-served parking garage..."

"The construction schedule would rely on pre-leasing of a significant portion of the commercial office space, Hirschfeld told GrowthSpotter."

https://www.growthspotter.com/news/downtown-orlando-developments/gs-news-planning-board-20191015-2ezjk2mmajcrrlnbr7xqscz2uy-story.html

[Jernigan]

5 hours ago, AmIReal said:

Is there a DXV in Parramore topic yet?

 

Take your pick:

https://www.urbanplanet.org/forums/topic/119417-dxv-central-17-story-officeresidential-proposed/

https://www.urbanplanet.org/forums/topic/119326-central-division-mixed-use-17-story-multifamofficeretail-proposed/

 

[orlandouprise]

So the Beacham theater is getting renovated. I am really excited for this. Long overdue. I just wish it was restored completely to its original façade and signage. Its similar but not as grand. Wish we would get the original signage that resemble more the Fox theater or Chicago theater. It also is a little too art deco for my liking and the main awning structure is going away.  Lastly I hate stucco. They are re-stuccoing instead of stripping it down to the brick.

Oh well...All in all though a nice upgrade.

Edited October 22, 2019 by orlandouprise

[spenser1058]

*Remembers seeing “2001: A Space Odyssey” there  back in the Dark Ages*

[AmIReal]

1 hour ago, orlandouprise said:

So the Beacham theater is getting renovated. I am really excited for this. Long overdue. I just wish it was restored completely to its original façade and signage. Its similar but not as grand. Wish we would get the original signage that resemble more the Fox theater or Chicago theater. It also is a little too art deco for my liking and the main awning structure is going away.  Lastly I hate stucco. They are re-stuccoing instead of stripping it down to the brick.

Oh well...All in all though a nice upgrade.

https://www.growthspotter.com/news/downtown-orlando-developments/gs-news-beacham-renovation-downtown-orlando-20191021-tzb2rqwvwfd2fh3hno7sxubop4-story.html

"Beacham Theater and adjacent establishments are working together to renovate... Historic Preservation Board unanimously approved initial plans to alter the facade of the Beacham Theater and the first two contiguous bays to its north... Certain elements such as the sign at the top center of the structure, that once projected over the canopy, are going to be brought back to resemble the original architecture.

Lots of details in the article.

[JFW657]

2 hours ago, spenser1058 said:

*Remembers seeing “2001: A Space Odyssey” there  back in the Dark Ages*

For a couple of months or so back around  the summer of 1982, it was the home of something called Laser World. A couple of guys who had previously done special effects in Hollywood were behind it. They had a large screen across the stage upon which they projected filmed visual effects, then did a laser light show against the film, all of it set to music. At some point, live costumed dancers came out and did a thing.

It was actually very cool and well worth the few bucks admission charge, but at the time, downtown Orlando was a real ghost town at night, especially around Central and Orange, because that corner was a construction site with the Wells Fargo (Atlantic Bank back then) tower going up. Therefore, the attendance wasn't what it would have been years later.

I think I heard they moved out to I-Drive.

[HankStrong]

Rock & Roll Beach Club!

[orlandouprise]

Can you post the other photo showing the original signage.

[codypet]

10 hours ago, AmIReal said:

https://www.growthspotter.com/news/downtown-orlando-developments/gs-news-beacham-renovation-downtown-orlando-20191021-tzb2rqwvwfd2fh3hno7sxubop4-story.html

"Beacham Theater and adjacent establishments are working together to renovate... Historic Preservation Board unanimously approved initial plans to alter the facade of the Beacham Theater and the first two contiguous bays to its north... Certain elements such as the sign at the top center of the structure, that once projected over the canopy, are going to be brought back to resemble the original architecture.

Lots of details in the article.

Wow!  That's gonna be cool.  Especially when they go around the corner with it and update the facades of planet pizza and the Patio.   Come on Ibar you can to it too!

[orlandouprise]

wish they would put the original windows in on the 2nd floor back in, restore the original canopy and restore the original signage. This new sign is a lot smaller and less grand.

Also, what is it with this city and its love affair with stucco? They slap that crap all over historic buildings. SMH

[JFW657]

2 hours ago, orlandouprise said:

wish they would put the original windows in on the 2nd floor back in, restore the original canopy and restore the original signage. This new sign is a lot smaller and less grand.

Also, what is it with this city and its love affair with stucco? They slap that crap all over historic buildings. SMH

That and the bleached out white paint!!!!

Couldn't afford to add a little beige or tan????

I HATE WHITE BUILDINGS!!!!

[spenser1058]

Personally, I prefer the marquee from the ‘50’s and ‘60’s as The Beacham has always had an unexceptional exterior compared to movie palaces like The Tampa, The FOX in Atlanta or Birmingham’s Alabama Theater (and, of course the Mighty Wurlitzer!)

Of course, Orlando wasn’t all that big in those days so The Beacham often punched above its weight. Ironically, the Colony Theater on Park Ave in WP (today’s Pottery Barn) had a more imposing facade.

More importantly, someone is finally sprucing up the core so I’ll take it.

1 hour ago, JFW657 said:

That and the bleached out white paint!!!!

Couldn't afford to add a little beige or tan????

I HATE WHITE BUILDINGS!!!!

It’s probably best you never wanted to join the Tea Party, JFW...

Edited October 22, 2019 by spenser1058

[popsiclebrandon]

Got the story sort of right I guess.

 

https://bungalower.com/2019/10/22/volunteers-raising-funds-to-buy-eola-7-eleven-building/