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2 minutes ago, spenser1058 said:

It’s interesting to ponder that as first-tier cities like BOS, SEA and SFO have been dismantling towering highways that cut through their downtowns, we’re going in the other direction.

I don't know. I kind of think the extremely complex looking highway looks pretty cool. Underground highways seem like a much better use of space, but you'd lose the views of downtown when you're driving. Also, isn't it way more expensive to have everything underground?

2 minutes ago, Jerry95 said:

To be fair, they’re burying them. The traffic is still there. But man, what a barrier between Paramore Oaks and the CBD

And the gentrification of Paramore continues.

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I think Lake Eola Park is one of the best urban parks in the country.  Today.  Haven't been to Orlando in 10 years or more and there is a lot more life downtown and around this park.  Great to see an

My friend grabbed some shots of downtown while flying into ORL. This one really shows how the I-4/408 interchange is coming along.  Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk

That was in the latest ARB report as well: http://www.cityoforlando.net/city-planning/wp-content/uploads/sites/27/2018/03/ARB2017-10009reportMarch2018.pdf Here is the new rendering:  A

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8 minutes ago, orange87 said:

I don't know. I kind of think the extremely complex looking highway looks pretty cool. Underground highways seem like a much better use of space, but you'd lose the views of downtown when you're driving. Also, isn't it way more expensive to have everything underground?

And the gentrification of Paramore continues.

Building underground would be more expensive, although even small cities like Mobile have done it in the past (no doubt with the feds probably paying 90% of the cost).

As to the gentrification of Parramore, building big complexes like that are done more to enrich land bankers and developers than to improve the community, which Jane Jacobs pointed out way back in the ‘60’s. Which, of course, is why as a community Parramore is no better off today than it was in 2003. But I’m sure after another 18 years, Buddy will have everything all fixed up!

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10 minutes ago, prahaboheme said:

The  difference is that Orlando doesn't have now, and likely ever will, a Tip O'Neill and Ted Kennedy to pull off a "big dig."

But we had Bill McCollum, who saved our Navy Base! Oh wait...

We did, of course, have Bill Clinton, who tried his darndest to give us light rail, but the Republicans on the county commission simply weren’t having it. Oh well, Charlotte certainly made good use of those hundreds of millions of dollars.

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16 hours ago, orange87 said:

I don't know. I kind of think the extremely complex looking highway looks pretty cool. Underground highways seem like a much better use of space, but you'd lose the views of downtown when you're driving. Also, isn't it way more expensive to have everything underground?

And the gentrification of Paramore continues.

Parramore Oaks is affordable housing. 

There is no gentrification in Parramore. 

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1 hour ago, AndyPok1 said:

Also, the teardown of the old 408 trumpet feeder ramps is arguably more important than direct "barrier" to the CBD.  Parramore and Westmoreland are good "major neighborhood" streets.  Similar to Delaney in SoDo.  And they lead you right to Church St. ... Once Under I is built, it'd be an enjoyable walk.

Agreed.

https://www.wftv.com/news/orlando-construction-project-aims-reconnect-divided-parramore-community/NWY4EEJNF5F2LI5DTNFT6LIKWM/

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A good amount of that barrier will be gone once that trumpet is out of the way.  This is one of the few areas where the new I4 will be an east-west improvement in IMO.  College Park and between Gore and Kaley were huge missed opportunities, but that's a different discussion.

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Building underground freeways in Florida is not really all that feasible given the water table we have. It is already very costly to build underground. Add to that the need for  waterproofing and maintenance of waterproofing and it only increases the cost further. 

As many have pointed out, this is NOT how that interchange will look at all when completed. The plan is for Terry Avenue to become the Main N/S through street for Parramore, Callahan, and Creative Village, eventually connecting all the way from Colonial Drive to the I-4 Westbound ramp.  This portion of the job is a vast improvement of what was there before for Griffin Park and Callahan and it will be much better overall for the connectivity of Parramore to both Downtown via the under-eye and Creative Village. 

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I don’t think many folks, and certainly not me, would imagine going underground as feasible.

What we should have thought about instead (and it’s far late to do it now) was restoring I-4 to its original proposed route along the John Young Parkway corridor.

We would have had an opportunity to restore the integrity of the community. Maybe we’ll get it right next time when Buddy retires in about 50 years and our flying taxis no longer require a roadway...

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51 minutes ago, spenser1058 said:

I don’t think many folks, and certainly not me, would imagine going underground as feasible.

What we should have thought about instead (and it’s far late to do it now) was restoring I-4 to its original proposed route along the John Young Parkway corridor.

We would have had an opportunity to restore the integrity of the community. Maybe we’ll get it right next time when Buddy retires in about 50 years and our flying taxis no longer require a roadway...

and what other neighborhoods would that have split and would the end result be better? Also, since given the current administration is having to work beyond the short sided/ bad decisions of past administrations, do you think the added financial burden to follow your path/ idea would have been worth it? Did you take into account this was not a project funded by the City or under the direction of the Mayor?  Was this just another pathetic and absurdly shallow attempt to somehow lay blame on Mayor Dyer? 

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11 minutes ago, dcluley98 said:

I mean, that's pretty bad. 

Especially for that area. 

I would hope they make them do something that is very visably nice on the vistas coming into the city center along I-4 and the 408. 

I dunno.

I don't think it looks awesome or amazing, but I don't think it's hideous either.

I've seen worse designs.

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22 hours ago, AmIReal said:

and what other neighborhoods would that have split and would the end result be better? Also, since given the current administration is having to work beyond the short sided/ bad decisions of past administrations, do you think the added financial burden to follow your path/ idea would have been worth it? Did you take into account this was not a project funded by the City or under the direction of the Mayor?  Was this just another pathetic and absurdly shallow attempt to somehow lay blame on Mayor Dyer? 

It’s amazing how you assume I was blaming Buddy on this one. My comment was simply his mayor-for-life status and the fact he ran on being judged on fixing Parramore and , after 18 years, it still ain’t fixed. He also ran on building a performing arts center. He never mentioned that after 18 years in office it’s still not complete (and only because he bumped his billionaire buddies ahead in line on a process they were never supposed to be a part of ( and gave them a sweetheart deal with no competition on an entertainment they have completely dropped the ball on). But as we always say with St. Buddy, he’ll fix it in the second 18 years, right?

Interesting that you assumed. I was blaming him - perhaps there’s some truth in my complaint, right? It’s also interesting you think after EIGHTEEN YEARS it’s appropriate to blame previous administrations for things Buddy doesn’t get right. 

Nevertheless, you’re also wrong that the city had no input on I-4 Ultimate. They absolutely did. Mayor Glenda got input on that one and didn’t think outside the box as I suggested. As I also said, it’s too late now. She didn’t push back on FDOT at the time because her primary concern then was they were talking about double-decking the highway. Thank goodness we derailed that.

Bottom line: Parramore ain’t fixed, Church St and downtown is a retail desert and we’re still waiting after EIGHTEEN years for the performing arts center to be completed. But hey, Buddy made sure we had a lousy basketball team owned by a family whose values don’t represent the citizens at all. Do you suppose after 25, 30, 40 years it will be appropriate to say the man in charge didn’t take care of business? Meanwhile, other cities in Florida that were way behind us have jumped ahead. It’s OK, though, because Buddy is Practically Perfect In Every Way!

 


 

 

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1 hour ago, spenser1058 said:

It’s amazing how you assume I was blaming Buddy on this one. My comment was simply his mayor-for-life status and the fact he ran on being judged on fixing Parramore and , after 18 years, it still ain’t fixed. He also ran on building a performing arts center. He never mentioned that after 18 years in office it’s still not complete (and only because he bumped his billionaire buddies ahead in line on a process they were never supposed to be a part of ( and gave them a sweetheart deal with no competition on an entertainment they have completely dropped the ball on). But as we always say with St. Buddy, he’ll fix it in the second 18 years, right?

Interesting that you assumed. I was blaming him - perhaps there’s some truth in my complaint, right? It’s also interesting you think after EIGHTEEN YEARS it’s appropriate to blame previous administrations for things Buddy doesn’t get right. 

Nevertheless, you’re also wrong that the city had no input on I-4 Ultimate. They absolutely did. Mayor Glenda got input on that one and didn’t think outside the box as I suggested. As I also said, it’s too late now. She didn’t push back on FDOT at the time because her primary concern then was they were talking about double-decking the highway. Thank goodness we derailed that.

Bottom line: Parramore ain’t fixed, Church St and downtown is a retail desert and we’re still waiting after EIGHTEEN years for the performing arts center to be completed. But hey, Buddy made sure we had a lousy basketball team owned by a family whose values don’t represent the citizens at all. Do you suppose after 25, 30, 40 years it will be appropriate to say the man in charge didn’t take care of business? Meanwhile, other cities in Florida that were way behind us have jumped ahead. It’s OK, though, because Buddy is Practically Perfect In Every Way!

 


 

 

Of course you are correct. I somehow misunderstood your constant and consistent use of mis-information in all matters related to the Mayor to infer that you were laying blame on the Mayor in this instance also. However, your answer made it very clear that was not your intention. You are clearly a person who sticks to the facts and honestly presents things in truthful context, so I retract my previous statement.

Re: the I4 project, yes, Mayor Hood dropped the ball. Fortunately, the current administration has included the under I4 project to make it more palatable.

1 hour ago, spenser1058 said:

because Buddy is Practically Perfect In Every Way!

Well, you said it. I'm not sure I agree, but since you said it, it must be so.

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3 hours ago, JFW657 said:

Doesn't look that bad.

Not for the area around South St and Rosalind anyway. 

Once it gets Orlando'd and all the trim is removed and it gets shortened to six stories, then it will both ugly and boring.

I'm usually not one to call for the shortening of buildings, but I think 6 stories would be far more appropriate there.  I'd be fine with the trim removed since it looks like an afterthought.  A brick facade would work very well there.

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1 hour ago, elefants said:

I'm usually not one to call for the shortening of buildings, but I think 6 stories would be far more appropriate there.  I'd be fine with the trim removed since it looks like an afterthought.  A brick facade would work very well there.

Brick is always preferable to just about anything else, but I don't hate this design.

I think that without the trim it becomes just another drab, featureless box.

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The sign at the Parliament sign will be saved. “The City of Orlando is working on saving the sign,” city spokeswoman Samantha Holstein wrote in an email. “Staff has been in conversations with the property owner and working on coordinating the removal and storage for the safe keeping of the sign at this time.” "The Orange County Regional History Center will be involved in planning the future of the sign, said chief curator Pamela Schwartz."

https://www.orlandosentinel.com/entertainment/arts-and-theater/os-et-parliament-house-demolished-sign-saved-20201115-huw7ztvr2zcejpfhj2wbztuqey-story.html

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