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Downtown Orlando Project Discussion


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21 hours ago, smileguy said:
On Monday, October 18, Orlando Mayor Buddy Dyer will join District 5 City Commissioner Regina I. Hill and members of the Orlando Downtown Development Board, Dr. Phillips Center, Dr. Phillips Charites, and Ascend Studios to break ground on Art², a new .28 acre park located on the corner of Orange Avenue and Robinson Street in downtown Orlando. 
 
Amenities at the park will include two-story container structure with café, art gallery, stage, seating, space for two food trucksgreen space for scheduled activities, and more. Anticipated to open in Spring 2022, this new park will help further meet the vision set forth in the DTOutlook plan by the community to ensure downtown Orlando remains “An Awesome Outdoor City.” 

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Go Buu - ddy!!!  Go Buu - ddy!!!  

Go Buu  ddy!!!  Go Buu - ddy!!!

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3 hours ago, AmIReal said:

Yet you still shop at Publix...

But a lot less now than I used to (thanks, Target!) Sadly, no organization or company, like no person, is perfect. It’s like the decision to remain friends or not when someone does you wrong.

If Publix left downtown Orlando tomorrow, there’s a lot about them I’d miss and their part of the fabric in the development of Central Florida (since the chain is likely too large to be sold to anyone but a PEF, that makes their possible demise likely even worse).

If the DeVos family sold the franchise tomorrow, would we miss them and their ineptitude? I certainly wouldn’t. The new owners might even share the values of the city, which would be a major improvement. The Magic had a great owner in Bill duPont. One day, maybe we’ll have that again.

Until then , the name on the Arena remains an outfit that goes to incredible lengths not to tell you who they are when they try to recruit you into the scheme that made the family billionaires. Mr. George and Publix never had to hide their business.

Edited by spenser1058
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On 10/17/2021 at 12:06 PM, AmIReal said:

Yet you still shop at Publix...

I've always enjoyed teasing spenser about his love/hate affair w/Publix. I felt the same way about Chick Fil A for a long time...  but they eventually reeled in some of their rhetoric and at the end of the day if you dig deep enough no company is perfect... just comes down to how much problematic behavior you can stomach before you lose your "appetite" again lol.

Publii.thumb.jpg.fd925d78d6dc48f57badb84809ccf2f1.jpg

Edited by nite owℓ
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5 hours ago, spenser1058 said:

But a lot less now than I used to (thanks, Target!) Sadly, no organization or company, like no person, is perfect. It’s like the decision to remain friends or not when someone does you wrong.

If Publix left downtown Orlando tomorrow, there’s a lot about them I’d miss and their part of the fabric in the development of Central Florida (since the chain is likely too large to be sold to anyone but a PEF, that makes their possible demise likely even worse).

If the DeVos family sold the franchise tomorrow, would we miss them and their ineptitude? I certainly wouldn’t. The new owners might even share the values of the city, which would be a major improvement. The Magic had a great owner in Bill duPont. One day, maybe we’ll have that again.

Until then , the name on the Arena remains an outfit that goes to incredible lengths not to tell you who they are when they try to recruit you into the scheme that made the family billionaires. Mr. George and Publix never had to hide their business.

I think my point is, as @nite owℓpoints out above, no company will likely tick all your boxes, but you try to do your best where you can. I'm just always surprised you take such glee in pumping up and promoting Publix.

Btw, the Magic 1st season began Nov. '89 and Dupont was the owner. DeVos bought them in Sept. '91. In his 2 years of ownership, I don't think Dupont left much imprint on the team or the city (other than the BOA building), but the Hewitt's, and to a lesser extent, Pat Williams left a sizable fingerprint on the community.

Also, Mr. George is dead. However, https://www.sun-sentinel.com/news/fl-ne-publix-heiress-jan6-rally-20211016-xi3ipicqbja6bbm34n7iobojaa-story.html

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10 minutes ago, codypet said:

No why'd you have to go and bring the Magic into this?  I'm hurting enough with UCF's record this year.

At least Terry and Gus seem to like public education and aren’t trying to sign everyone up for an unnamed (yet outstanding!) multilevel marketing opportunity…(and as rough as things are, UCF still has a decent shot at 8-4 this year instead of 21-51).

Edited by spenser1058
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Lots of updates on problems from the old Parliament House and the new version downtown (it’s probably best not to hold your breath on that…)


Ex-Parliament House manager faces trial over unpaid sales tax
https://www.orlandosentinel.com/entertainment/arts-and-theater/os-prem-et-parliament-house-taxes-trial-20211019-wr5sdz7pxjfyphe6c7c4oq65o4-story.html

From Matt Palm at the Sentinel 

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3 hours ago, spenser1058 said:

Lots of updates on problems from the old Parliament House and the new version downtown (it’s probably best not to hold your breath on that…)


Ex-Parliament House manager faces trial over unpaid sales tax
https://www.orlandosentinel.com/entertainment/arts-and-theater/os-prem-et-parliament-house-taxes-trial-20211019-wr5sdz7pxjfyphe6c7c4oq65o4-story.html

From Matt Palm at the Sentinel 

I'd be lying if I said I was shocked....but what makes you think the new version won't end up coming to fruition? Just a hunch?

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17 minutes ago, bqknight said:

I'd be lying if I said I was shocked....but what makes you think the new version won't end up coming to fruition? Just a hunch?

It certainly could happen but the Granatsteins have tended to make a mess of anything they’ve been involved with, not only here but elsewhere.

It’s also just getting harder to do gay bars in this day and age. As we’ve mainstreamed over the years, the bars have become less successful , not unlike Sweet Auburn in Atlanta and Parramore have for the Black community because it’s harder to keep the same critical mass.

When you’re welcome most everywhere, (legally at first and then culturally as society hopefully progresses) it changes the calculus.

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IMO the new location for P-House in CityArts factory sucks... I think Church Street Station (the actual old railroad station) would've been a better fit. One of the reasons why P-House was so fun is because it had so many facets: swimming pool/outdoor areas, concert area, the little beach on the lake, drag queen theater, dance floor, pool table bar, bear bar, etc. Throwing P-House into a boring building is not the same. At least Church Street Station could offer a few different ambiances in all of the outdoor spaces and nooks and crannies to give each area it's own separate vibe. That said, I don't know if the younger generation holds the same fondness for Parliament House so maybe it was just time for it to fade away or try to bring it back, dust it off and make it new again.

Edited by nite owℓ
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Don’t believe me that Buddy and Mr. Chatmon’s downtown is a failure, believe City Commissioner Jim Gray:

“On the dais, Gray has been an outspoken critic of downtown Orlando, particularly its lack of fine dining and retail, and abundance of bars and taprooms. In an interview, Gray said he’s suggested the city hire consultants to help craft a plan to diversify downtown, such as plans to improve access to parking or offering reduced or free rent. “We’ve built a beautiful arena and we’ve built a beautiful arts center. Tell me how many new businesses have opened and stayed open around those venues,” he said. “What’s happening now is [patrons] drive in from suburbia, they go to the show, they get into their car and go back home. “Bottom line is we’re pouring way too much alcohol downtown ... we’re just out of proportion.”

From The Sentinel 

Of course, the Buddy/Thomas apologists will just keep telling us that downtown keeps getting better every year!

Even the real estate industrial complex knows the truth - Jim Gray is the Managing Director of CBRE’s Orlando Office…

Edited by spenser1058
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5 hours ago, spenser1058 said:

Don’t believe me that Buddy and Mr. Chatmon’s downtown is a failure, believe City Commissioner Jim Gray:

Why?

Why should we believe him? 

How do we know he isn't just another self interested agenda pusher? 

And where does it actually say in the article you referenced that he called DTO under Buddy Dyer "a failure"?   

The following quote is from the same article you referenced, but it was reprinted in Yahoo News, ergo no paywall.

Sunshine Grund and Bill Moore, Gray's opponents in the upcoming election, made some interesting comments about Gray...

Quote

 

She  (Grund) criticized Gray for being funded by developers, suggesting he’s too cozy with the industry.

“Our best interests are not always being represented,” she said.

(Bill) Moore also dinged the incumbent for not voting on some agenda items due to conflicts of interest. Gray has abstained from voting when clients are represented by the commercial real estate firm CBRE, where he works as the managing director of the Orlando office.

“When you start conflicting out, you’re not only not representing District 1, you’re not representing the city,” Moore said. “I think he needs to step down.”

https://news.yahoo.com/jim-gray-draws-2-challengers-183100153.html

 

So... tell me again why I should believe his supposed condemnation of Buddy Dyer. 

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5 hours ago, JFW657 said:

Why?

Why should we believe him? 

How do we know he isn't just another self interested agenda pusher? 

And where does it actually say in the article you referenced that he called DTO under Buddy Dyer "a failure"?   

The following quote is from the same article you referenced, but it was reprinted in Yahoo News, ergo no paywall.

Sunshine Grund and Bill Moore, Gray's opponents in the upcoming election, made some interesting comments about Gray...

So... tell me again why I should believe his supposed condemnation of Buddy Dyer. 

Those of us on the outside recognize what a mess it is and now even those on the inside recognize it as well. But keep on believing - any year now it’ll get better. We’re on our way to being John Land’s Apopka!

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15 hours ago, spenser1058 said:

“What’s happening now is [patrons] drive in from suburbia, they go to the show, they get into their car and go back home.”

It’s amazing that we can have this realization and not want to pair it with investing in SunRail.  

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5 hours ago, spenser1058 said:

Those of us on the outside recognize what a mess it is and now even those on the inside recognize it as well. But keep on believing - any year now it’ll get better. We’re on our way to being John Land’s Apopka!

Just as in life... it is what it is.

If there was a big enough demand for all the things you blame your arch nemesis Buddy The Barbarian  for not being in DTO, those things would be there. 

But you go ahead and hold up as your paragon of truth and virtue, some far right, Republican real estate industry shill who takes sides with supporters of The Confederacy...

https://www.orlandosentinel.com/politics/os-jim-gray-mailer-tom-keen-orlando-20171013-story.html  

 

Quote

Orlando city Commissioner Jim Gray accused an opponent of "race baiting" in response to a mailer attacking his position on removing a Confederate memorial from Lake Eola Park.

The mailer called Gray a "Right-Wing Commissioner of the Past" and quoted him saying of the Confederacy, "It wasn't to me about slavery as much as it was North aggression to take our farmland."

 

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11 minutes ago, JFW657 said:

Just as in life... it is what it is.

If there was a big enough demand for all the things you blame your arch nemesis Buddy The Barbarian  for not being in DTO, those things would be there. 

But you go ahead and hold up as your paragon of truth and virtue, some far right, Republican real estate industry shill who takes sides with supporters of The Confederacy...

https://www.orlandosentinel.com/politics/os-jim-gray-mailer-tom-keen-orlando-20171013-story.html  

 

 

No one better than I knows about the real estate industry’s hold over this town. And you’re always trying to accuse me of being some wild-eyed socialist so which is it?

I thought it was worthwhile the left believes downtown is a mess and here’s the right saying it. Not to mention the city’s newspaper of record has observed local government is in a rut. Also, that shows the insiders believe we have a problem and also the outsiders.

But I know you believe St. Buddy is incapable of error and we have a splendid downtown with lots of retail and plenty of dining options. So you just keep on believing that and see how it goes.

For folks who wonder why it doesn’t seem to be working, some of us are finally speaking up.

 

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18 hours ago, spenser1058 said:

Don’t believe me that Buddy and Mr. Chatmon’s downtown is a failure, believe City Commissioner Jim Gray:

“On the dais, Gray has been an outspoken critic of downtown Orlando, particularly its lack of fine dining and retail, and abundance of bars and taprooms. In an interview, Gray said he’s suggested the city hire consultants to help craft a plan to diversify downtown, such as plans to improve access to parking or offering reduced or free rent. “We’ve built a beautiful arena and we’ve built a beautiful arts center. Tell me how many new businesses have opened and stayed open around those venues,” he said. “What’s happening now is [patrons] drive in from suburbia, they go to the show, they get into their car and go back home. “Bottom line is we’re pouring way too much alcohol downtown ... we’re just out of proportion.”

From The Sentinel 

Of course, the Buddy/Thomas apologists will just keep telling us that downtown keeps getting better every year!

Even the real estate industrial complex knows the truth - Jim Gray is the Managing Director of CBRE’s Orlando Office…

The “beautiful arts center” lives in isolation from the rest of downtown, by design it seems. 
 

A few issues come to mind:

a) the original vision was never realized entirely by bringing development to the adjacent DPAC commons parcels. Hotel, restaurant, retail was envisioned and the city did not follow through with it. 
 

b) the center is surrounding by pedestrian unfriendly one-way streets on all 4 sides, creating a physical barrier between it and the rest of downtown.

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