Downtown Orlando Project Discussion

[prahaboheme]

12 minutes ago, AmIReal said:

Count me as "not surprised" that a 70-ish, white man with right leaning political views, who  lives in a mini mansion in an exclusive  neighborhood would not be comfortable in our downtown or with the people that go there. My guess is he would feel this way about most downtowns. Further, I suspect most people of his profile would also feel the same. There is nothing shocking or revelatory here. I'm also not a big fan of many of the bars downtown, but I don't confine my view of downtown to 3 blocks along Orange or a block of Church. Btw, Nona doesn't have any restaurants that compare to The Monroe, Reyes or The Boheme. He may prefer the patrons at restaurants in other areas, but the restaurants are certainly no better.

 

If you have a downtown full of Taco Bells and cheap beer joints then you likely have a lower end (economically speaking) of downtowners. 

 

That would have been a fine location and maybe even the Magic S&E property, but I think the location they chose was the best choice... just my opinion.

Agreed - I think the current location is absolutely fine for the arts center. 

[JFW657]

10 minutes ago, AmIReal said:

Count me as "not surprised" that a 70-ish, white man with right leaning political views, who  lives in a mini mansion in an exclusive  neighborhood would not be comfortable in our downtown or with the people that go there. My guess is he would feel this way about most downtowns. Further, I suspect most people of his profile would also feel the same. There is nothing shocking or revelatory here. I'm also not a big fan of many of the bars downtown, but I don't confine my view of downtown to 3 blocks along Orange or a block of Church. Btw, Nona doesn't have any restaurants that compare to The Monroe, Reyes or The Boheme. He may prefer the patrons at restaurants in other areas, but the restaurants are certainly no better.

 

If you have a downtown full of Taco Bells and cheap beer joints then you likely have a lower end (economically speaking) of downtowners. 

 

That would have been a fine location and maybe even the Magic S&E property, but I think the location they chose was the best choice... just my opinion.

And that type of resident is what DTO might have an overabundance of, which might be the reason why we have a dearth of retail and higher end entertainment. 

I think that as more large residenbtial projects like Society and whatever that thing over on Church St is going to be called go up, the amount of retail etc., will increase along with them.

Seems like a reasonable assumption to make without all the blame, finger pointing and second guessing that goes on around here. 

[JFW657]

54 minutes ago, prahaboheme said:

You seem to have misunderstood the stated remark and unfortunately, leading to your unnecessary rhetorical ramble.

That being said, when did this administration shy away from bulldozing anything?  To entertain you, I’d have placed the arts center at Church / Orange where Buddy was more than willing to tear down buildings.

And I supoose you're certain that everything else was in place, too?

That the Orange / Church  property was available at just the right time?

The price was within the land budget limits?

And that the size iof the parcel was even large enough to build what they wanted to build to begin with?

Which BTW, if you'll please direct your attention to the Google Maps screenshot below for comparison purposes....

... you'll see that the Orange / Church parcel you're talking is nowhere near large enough to accomodate the building that exists now.

That woud have necessitated buying the land which the Downtown Baptist Church occupies and it still would not have been as big as the DPAC parcel.

And that is assuming the Baptist Church would have even been willing to sell.

Second guessing and backseat driving is always easy when one is not the one steering the ship. 

[prahaboheme]

20 minutes ago, JFW657 said:

And I supoose you're certain that everything else was in place, too?

That the Orange / Church  property was available at just the right time?

The price was within the land budget limits?

And that the size iof the parcel was even large enough to build what they wanted to build to begin with?

Which BTW, if you'll please direct your attention to the Google Maps screenshot below for comparison purposes....

... you'll see that the Orange / Church parcel you're talking is nowhere near large enough to accomodate the building that exists now.

That woud have necessitated buying the land which the Downtown Baptist Church occupies and it still would not have been as big as the DPAC parcel.

And that is assuming the Baptist Church would have even been willing to sell.

Second guessing and backseat driving is always easy when one is not the one steering the ship. 

Again, you’re extending a lot of energy to make a point when you didn’t understand the initial statement, which you never addressed, countered foolishly, and double down on.

[JFW657]

20 minutes ago, prahaboheme said:

Again, you’re extending a lot of energy to make a point when you didn’t understand the initial statement, which you never addressed, countered foolishly, and double down on.

Explain.

[prahaboheme]

29 minutes ago, JFW657 said:

Explain.

Nah. It’s up there.

[JFW657]

42 minutes ago, prahaboheme said:

Nah. It’s up there.

IOW, you can't explain what I supposedly misunderstood because there was nothing to misunderstand.

Your remarks were simple and straightforward and I addressed each one.

You claimed...

The DPAC is isolated from the rest of DTO.

It's the city's (Buddy Dyer's) fault that no hotel, restaurant or retail was built there as originally planned.

Because the city didin't close the surrounding streets to all vehicle traffic (as you seem to think every street in DTO should be) people cannot get there by foot because waiting for traffic to stop at a light before crossing a street is just too much for people to handle. 

What did I not understand about any of that?

[Uncommon]

2 hours ago, JFW657 said:

And I supoose you're certain that everything else was in place, too?

That the Orange / Church  property was available at just the right time?

The price was within the land budget limits?

And that the size iof the parcel was even large enough to build what they wanted to build to begin with?

Which BTW, if you'll please direct your attention to the Google Maps screenshot below for comparison purposes....

... you'll see that the Orange / Church parcel you're talking is nowhere near large enough to accomodate the building that exists now.

That woud have necessitated buying the land which the Downtown Baptist Church occupies and it still would not have been as big as the DPAC parcel.

And that is assuming the Baptist Church would have even been willing to sell.

Second guessing and backseat driving is always easy when one is not the one steering the ship. 

I honestly wouldn’t bother with prahaboheme or posters of that ilk. There are far too many that are the very embodiment of out-of-touch, Karen-esque, insufferable complainers that frankly aren’t worth the keystrokes.

[prahaboheme]

12 hours ago, JFW657 said:

IOW, you can't explain what I supposedly misunderstood because there was nothing to misunderstand.

Your remarks were simple and straightforward and I addressed each one.

You claimed...

The DPAC is isolated from the rest of DTO.

It's the city's (Buddy Dyer's) fault that no hotel, restaurant or retail was built there as originally planned.

Because the city didin't close the surrounding streets to all vehicle traffic (as you seem to think every street in DTO should be) people cannot get there by foot because waiting for traffic to stop at a light before crossing a street is just too much for people to handle. 

What did I not understand about any of that?

You did not “address” anything. You posed a lot of rhetorical questions. Then you made exaggerated claims based on those same questions which was unrelated to the discussion.

There is nothing to discuss here and so I’m not doing a point-for-point takedown of you. Waste of time.

[JFW657]

1 hour ago, prahaboheme said:

You did not “address” anything. You posed a lot of rhetorical questions. Then you made exaggerated claims based on those same questions which was unrelated to the discussion.

There is nothing to discuss here and so I’m not doing a point-for-point takedown of you. Waste of time.

What is rhetorical about asking what alternate site you would have built the DPAC on, had the decision been yours to make?

That is as straightforward of a question as can be asked, as was every other question I posed to you, all of which were very specific in nature.

You couldn't answer any of them, so now all you're doing here is basically "pulling a Trump". 

Refusing to admit reality based on your assumption that all you have to do is float a false narrative and people will buy it just because you said it.

What you seem to be ignoring or refusing to acknowledge to yourself, is that everyone here can read.  

 

[popsiclebrandon]

One of the biggest gatekeepers in the city bemoaning that he and his ilk didn't lease spaces to things he liked is such a hilariously useless take.

[spenser1058]

It’s just a part of the dysfunction surrounding city government. Sadly, it’s not unusual when the same people stay in power too long - their blind spots just grow and grow.

[spenser1058]

Mad Cow Theatre may be on the way out from its city-owned Church Street location due to required payments being behind.

If not resolved, Orlando Fringe may move in with a new project:

https://www.orlandosentinel.com/entertainment/arts-and-theater/os-prem-et-mad-cow-theatre-orlando-default-notice-20211101-olencbtoyzbdtbot4qxa2bg6wy-story.html

From The Sentinel 

[spenser1058]

An update on the closure at Cleo’s and the entire building at 11 S. Court Ave:

https://bungalower.com/2021/11/02/ask-bungalower-did-cleos-close/

From Bungalower 

 

[bqknight]

5 hours ago, spenser1058 said:

An update on the closure at Cleo’s and the entire building at 11 S. Court Ave:

https://bungalower.com/2021/11/02/ask-bungalower-did-cleos-close/

From Bungalower 

 

I'm a fan of what TMG does, so looking forward to it. 

[spenser1058]

Mad Cow is out on Church St. Here comes the Fringe! (This is separate from the annual Fringe event at Loch Haven.)

https://bungalower.com/2021/11/03/city-terminates-mad-cow-theatres-lease/

From Bungalower 

[spenser1058]

One of Orlando’s best-loved traditions continues Sunday at 7:30 am when the Jack Kazanzas star will once again hang above the intersection of Orange and Central.

Back in the ‘50’s when Ivey’s and Dickson and Ives were the local version of Manhattan’s Macy’s and Gimbels, the two retailers got together to get residents in the Christmas mood. Ho! Ho! Ho!

https://archive.org/details/Jack_Kazanzas_Star_-_Orlando_s_Christmas_Star

Meanwhile, another big Orlando holiday tradition begins tomorrow at 5:45pm when OUC welcomes the season with the huge sign atop the Cheney Power Station on Lake Ivanhoe. Don’t miss it! 
 

Edited November 18, 2021 by spenser1058

[elefants]

15 hours ago, spenser1058 said:

Meanwhile, another big Orlando holiday tradition begins tomorrow at 5:45pm when OUC welcomes the season with the huge sign atop the Cheney Power Station on Lake Ivanhoe. Don’t miss it! 
 

Hopefully whoever ends up buying that place continues the tradition.  I'd hate for this to be the last year.

[spenser1058]

A busking pilot is FINALLY coming to downtown. Bringing street musicians and artists to do their thing outdoors is sorely needed to increase activity downtown, particularly in the core. It’s long overdue but a welcome addition:

https://bungalower.com/2021/11/17/downtown-arts-district-launches-busking-program/

From The Bungalower 
 

[JFW657]

Probably still need a permit I'm guessing. 

[spenser1058]

Just now, JFW657 said:

Probably still need a permit I'm guessing. 

It sounds like, but at least this time around they’re allowing tipping. I remember a trial back in Mayor Glenda’s time where that was considered horrendous. Small steps, I guess.

 

 

 

 

[RedStar25]

23 hours ago, elefants said:

Hopefully whoever ends up buying that place continues the tradition.  I'd hate for this to be the last year.

I believe Lake Highland is interested in it. 

[RedStar25]

I should say, I know its been discussed as a new performing arts center. 

[popsiclebrandon]

Apparently Sausage Shack guys are instead opening something called Dulce. Says they are hiring bartenders so I'm puzzled by the plan with it.

[spenser1058]

3 minutes ago, popsiclebrandon said:

Apparently Sausage Shack guys are instead opening something called Dulce. Says they are hiring bartenders so I'm puzzled by the plan with it.

But I wanted a sausage!