Downtown Orlando Project Discussion

[orange87]

I don't know if this has ever been discussed; but Downtown Orlando is listed by Niche as the best place for young professionals in Florida.

[AndyPok1]

Hard to disagree.

[Uncommon]

The top 4 places for young professionals in Florida are in Orlando and 5 out of the top 10.

[prahaboheme]

Niche.com rankings for Florida’s best neighborhoods skew overwhelmingly to Tampa and Orlando. Miami enters the list in the top 30 (mainly due to affordability factor — or lack of).

All the more reason to preserve what makes those neighborhoods in Orlando rank so highly on that list while the option is available.

[blt23]

On 12/1/2021 at 4:35 PM, prahaboheme said:

Niche.com rankings for Florida’s best neighborhoods skew overwhelmingly to Tampa and Orlando. Miami enters the list in the top 30 (mainly due to affordability factor — or lack of).

All the more reason to preserve what makes those neighborhoods in Orlando rank so highly on that list while the option is available.

What should we be doing to preserve the affordability of these neighborhoods?

[prahaboheme]

4 hours ago, blt23 said:

What should we be doing to preserve the affordability of these neighborhoods?

I’ll assume you knew what I was getting at by preserving the neighborhoods in Orlando that actually have value and make it have “a place” to go.

A lot of UPers just love the idea to bulldoze down history in the name of progress.  Sadly, they’re getting  what they wanted.

 

 

[popsiclebrandon]

15 hours ago, blt23 said:

What should we be doing to preserve the affordability of these neighborhoods?

Build more. Its really quite that simple. We have a huge housing supply issue and until we start building more and quick prices are going to continue to get more outrageous.

[nite owℓ]

1 hour ago, popsiclebrandon said:

Build more. Its really quite that simple. We have a huge housing supply issue and until we start building more and quick prices are going to continue to get more outrageous.

If only this would spur more redevelopment downtown... how long does it take for developers to catch on? I wonder if the rise in the cost of materials & supply chain are hampering progress. We still have quite a few unnecessary parking lots and vacant lots downtown that need to be built up to their best and highest use. I long for the days of the early 2000's when quality condos and apartments were being proposed/built left and right... downtown construction slowed to a trickle ever since the Recession.

BTW, @popsiclebrandon someone made an offhanded comment on NextDoor saying "The Yard ran out of money and cannot finish construction" . Have you heard anything about this or if there is a nugget of truth to it? Possibly referring to Phase III??

Edited December 3, 2021 by nite owℓ

[popsiclebrandon]

2 hours ago, nite owℓ said:

If only this would spur more redevelopment downtown... how long does it take for developers to catch on? I wonder if the rise in the cost of materials & supply chain are hampering progress. We still have quite a few unnecessary parking lots and vacant lots downtown that need to be built up to their best and highest use. I long for the days of the early 2000's when quality condos and apartments were being proposed/built left and right... downtown construction slowed to a trickle ever since the Recession.

BTW, @popsiclebrandon someone made an offhanded comment on NextDoor saying "The Yard ran out of money and cannot finish construction" . Have you heard anything about this or if there is a nugget of truth to it? Possibly referring to Phase III??

I know very little about how developers think/work but I do know a few lots are sitting empty or barely used because the current owners view their value at way more than what it really is.

 

As for The Yard I would say there is almost no way that is true. Its finished first of all and they are also buying more and more land around it to add more apts into future plans. I guess in theory their money guys could have all pulled out but the place is nearly full and probably generating solid returns already. I am a little surprised they haven't started on that little mini-project across Alden yet but could be a myriad of reasons for that.

[dcluley98]

Yard is not done. It is paused. The way the financing of developments work, they do ProForma for application of lending, but then would need to lease the intial phases for cash flow to make those numbers work, shore up the balance sheet after a bit of time, and have FCF to service. 

So it may "take a break" for a while as they work on achieving occupancy rates and projected cash flow, but I would suspect the next phases would start eventually.  "Running out of money" is standard for large scale phased development/construction projects. They do that in phases on purpose to progressively build the project. 

[nite owℓ]

On 12/3/2021 at 6:47 PM, dcluley98 said:

Yard is not done. It is paused. The way the financing of developments work, they do ProForma for application of lending, but then would need to lease the intial phases for cash flow to make those numbers work, shore up the balance sheet after a bit of time, and have FCF to service. 

So it may "take a break" for a while as they work on achieving occupancy rates and projected cash flow, but I would suspect the next phases would start eventually.  "Running out of money" is standard for large scale phased development/construction projects. They do that in phases on purpose to progressively build the project. 

Sometimes there is a grain of corrupted truth to rumors so I thought I'd ask for clarification. There are so many phases associated with this project that I've lost count lol... so are you saying Phase III is paused or is it some other component of the development?

Despite the demand for housing, developer financing seems to be a big obstacle getting in the way of cranking out more units. Just goes to show that it's not so easy to simply "build more" apartments/housing to solve the supply issue.

[AmIReal]

This is a fairly superficial overview of the topics covered today in Mayor Dyer's speech-

https://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/orange-county/os-ne-orange-state-of-downtown-orlando-20211214-lqwcxueyife4llvquosmgdzg54-story.html

Nothing earth shattering here, but this is interesting, "he revealed the city is in talks with Beep to develop a downtown route for its autonomous buses"... that would be a pretty big deal.

Also, he talked about how development has increased during Covid instead of a downturn... "Downtown Orlando historically sees the addition of one major office tower every 10 years, but two towers have just been completed and two more are ready to get started – one in Creative Village and one on Church Street"

He knocked the downtown bar heavy environment and lauded Mayor Demming for the sales tax proposal. Homelessness, affordable housing, road diet, pedestrian friendly, World Cup, yadda, yadda, yadda.

There was actually some decent info here and hopefully it will be better covered in coming days or I'll post the full comments when they're up.

[Uncommon]

8 hours ago, AmIReal said:

This is a fairly superficial overview of the topics covered today in Mayor Dyer's speech-

https://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/orange-county/os-ne-orange-state-of-downtown-orlando-20211214-lqwcxueyife4llvquosmgdzg54-story.html

Nothing earth shattering here, but this is interesting, "he revealed the city is in talks with Beep to develop a downtown route for its autonomous buses"... that would be a pretty big deal.

Also, he talked about how development has increased during Covid instead of a downturn... "Downtown Orlando historically sees the addition of one major office tower every 10 years, but two towers have just been completed and two more are ready to get started – one in Creative Village and one on Church Street"

He knocked the downtown bar heavy environment and lauded Mayor Demming for the sales tax proposal. Homelessness, affordable housing, road diet, pedestrian friendly, World Cup, yadda, yadda, yadda.

There was actually some decent info here and hopefully it will be better covered in coming days or I'll post the full comments when they're up.

He claims he would be surprised if Orlando didn’t receive win its World Cup bid. I call BS. 
 

Regarding Beep supposedly coming to downtown, it’s long overdue, since Tampa already has Beep operating in its CBD. Considering Beep is local and homegrown, I’m disheartened they didn’t choose downtown Orlando to pilot its technology sooner.

[JFW657]

So assuming this Beep thing uses the existing Lymmo route, I wonder if they'll get all new vehicles or if they'll just retrofit the existing ones.

[dcluley98]

They will use their smaller vehicles: 

https://ridebeep.com/location/hart-hillsborough-area-regional-transit/

[JFW657]

1 hour ago, dcluley98 said:

They will use their smaller vehicles: 

https://ridebeep.com/location/hart-hillsborough-area-regional-transit/

Yeah, after I posted that I figured they'd go with something very modern and futuristic/high tech looking.

Which IMO, is preferable.

I guess it also stands to reason that they'll get rid of Lymmo but use that existing route. 

Or does it? 

[orlandocity87]

22 minutes ago, JFW657 said:

I guess it also stands to reason that they'll get rid of Lymmo but use that existing route. 

Or does it? 

Boy, I hope not. I don't want to travel 3 mph or sit that close to people. 

[JFW657]

8 minutes ago, orlandocity87 said:

Boy, I hope not. I don't want to travel 3 mph or sit that close to people. 

Awwwwwww, c'mon.

What could possibly go wrong?????

 

[spenser1058]

“Aren’t you glad you use Dial? Don’t you wish everybody did?”

[elefants]

Creative City considering moving “Immerse” art event out of downtown

Quote

According to NeSmith, Creative City management has been having exploratory conversations with industry colleagues about the future of the festival, with one of the options being an “Olympic-style bid process” that could take the event to different communities in the region or beyond who are making investments in their downtowns and looking for more placemaking opportunities.

To sum it up:  They need more money and nothing is final. 

It would be a shame to lose it.   It is a great time and a real boost to Orlando's culture, imo.

[popsiclebrandon]

Leverage szn

[spenser1058]

This holiday season the Sentinel goes in-depth on downtown’s Kazanzas Christmas Star, the centerpiece of Orlando’s holiday decorations.It also reminds us how much of a difference one person can make - without Jack, it would have disappeared entirely decades ago.

https://www.orlandosentinel.com/features/central-florida-history/os-ne-greetings-from-jack-kazansas-orlando-christmas-star-20211217-5f5a275pxncblkhfioevj2q4ca-story.html

[AmIReal]

Everyone's favorite mayor discusses the state of the City, growth, roads, Sunrail, affordable housing, CV, tech, MEC (coming this year he says), etc

https://www.fox35orlando.com/video/1014996

[AmIReal]

I'm not sure the best place to put this post- so I chose here. Three of the older properties in the heart of the city have sold this week. The Tinker Building (was the OW building on Pine) is on the historic register and has sold to the Southern Group. 20 S. Orange (the Pourhouse) and 13 W Pine have both sold to Team Market (aka the Miwardi brothers) who have been on a buying spree of late- they plan to operate their HQ out of the latter building. The brothers have also made numerous (7) other purchases recently in downtown, Parramore and the Mills area within the past year. They seem to be abandoning projects in south Florida and Jax and putting the money in Orlando.

Both buyers are keen on protecting historic buildings.

https://www.bizjournals.com/orlando/news/2022/01/11/downtown-orlando-historic-tinker-building-sells.html?cx_testId=40&cx_testVariant=cx_11&cx_artPos=1#cxrecs_s

https://www.bizjournals.com/orlando/news/2022/01/11/team-market-group-buys-two-downtown-orlando-build.html

 

[bqknight]

1 hour ago, AmIReal said:

I'm not sure the best place to put this post- so I chose here. Three of the older properties in the heart of the city have sold this week. The Tinker Building (was the OW building on Pine) is on the historic register and has sold to the Southern Group. 20 S. Orange (the Pourhouse) and 13 W Pine have both sold to Team Market (aka the Miwardi brothers) who have been on a buying spree of late- they plan to operate their HQ out of the latter building. The brothers have also made numerous (7) other purchases recently in downtown, Parramore and the Mills area within the past year. They seem to be abandoning projects in south Florida and Jax and putting the money in Orlando.

Both buyers are keen on protecting historic buildings.

https://www.bizjournals.com/orlando/news/2022/01/11/downtown-orlando-historic-tinker-building-sells.html?cx_testId=40&cx_testVariant=cx_11&cx_artPos=1#cxrecs_s

https://www.bizjournals.com/orlando/news/2022/01/11/team-market-group-buys-two-downtown-orlando-build.html

 

Looking forward to seeing what else TMG puts out there. They are one of the only ones downtown who seem to do a good job with their concepts. Mather's, Wellborn, Robinson, etc - all very welcome additions to Orlando. Might be why they are investing so much here - these types of establishments are more common in SoFla, but there are next to none outside what they own in Downtown Orlando.