Downtown Orlando Project Discussion

[JFW657]

3 minutes ago, IAmFloridaBorn said:

 

?

I guess it's certainly possible they could put up a building there but it seems like an odd spot. 

[Jernigan]

Just for kicks…

I think it would be rad to build up over the library for a taller senior housing tower with direct resident elevator access to the library.  Could lead to some amazing programming for the residents and would be even cooler if there was a model where the residential business could help subsidize the library 

[dcluley98]

Like I said, it was an odd proposal!  hahaha. That's what I meant before that it seems odd they would put a building there rather than myriad adjacent blank street lots. Confused me at first too. Like are they really going to do that or add on to the existing building or garage. Doesn't make sense to add on to existing structures that were not built/engineered for that, so I am assuming it is a tall/skinny building on that little lot in between. 

[smileguy]

On 5/20/2022 at 8:43 PM, dcluley98 said:

Like I said, it was an odd proposal!  hahaha. That's what I meant before that it seems odd they would put a building there rather than myriad adjacent blank street lots. Confused me at first too. Like are they really going to do that or add on to the existing building or garage. Doesn't make sense to add on to existing structures that were not built/engineered for that, so I am assuming it is a tall/skinny building on that little lot in between. 

The second floor retail use makes sense if they need to maintain access from the office tower to the garages. 

[dcluley98]

I think second - 4th floor is lobby/amenities space like clubhouse/meeting rooms and fitness center, etc. 

[JFW657]

On 5/20/2022 at 8:43 PM, dcluley98 said:

Like I said, it was an odd proposal!  hahaha. That's what I meant before that it seems odd they would put a building there rather than myriad adjacent blank street lots. Confused me at first too. Like are they really going to do that or add on to the existing building or garage. Doesn't make sense to add on to existing structures that were not built/engineered for that, so I am assuming it is a tall/skinny building on that little lot in between. 

How much of a possibility exists of them building a tower on top of the existing parking garage which is also on their property?

If it's possible from an engineering standpoint, that would make more sense in terms of location.

OR..... might they possibly just demo the garage altogether, then build from scratch on that spot?

Jamming another tower right in there next to the existing one on Central, just seems  too counterintuitive. Especially given that the diagonal positioning of the current tower would make them look like they were almost touching. 

It would have to be a reeeaaaalllly skinny building.  

[spenser1058]

It’s intriguing that developers are going to such lengths to build in difficult situations when the area most in need of construction, the endless sea of asphalt parking lots adjoining I4 on the east, continues to lie fallow.

[JFW657]

20 minutes ago, spenser1058 said:

It’s intriguing that developers are going to such lengths to build in difficult situations when the area most in need of construction, the endless sea of asphalt parking lots adjoining I4 on the east, continues to lie fallow.

In this particular instance, because those who MIGHT be looking to build here already own the land, it's not difficult to understand at all.

I don't think their main focus here is to foster the most efficient use of DTO real state with regards to creating a visually appealing, well balanced building layout.

They are in business to make money. 

Utilizing property they already own, without having to fork out millons for property they don't already own, seems to be the most logical way to achieve that end.

That having been said, re: my earlier suggestion that maybe they are or could consider building a tower where the garage is now, I'm thinking something along the lines of:

Seems like a logical location to me, but that's JMHO. 

[spenser1058]

9 minutes ago, JFW657 said:

In this particular instance, because those who MIGHT be looking to build here already own the land, it's not difficult to understand at all.

I don't think their main focus here is to foster the most efficient use of DTO real state with regards to creating a visually appealing, well balanced building layout.

They are in business to make money. 

Utilizing property they already own, without having to fork out millons for property they don't already own, seems to be the most logical way to achieve that end.

That having been said, re: my earlier suggestion that maybe they are or could consider building a tower where the garage is now, I'm thinking something along the lines of:

Seems like a logical location to me, but that's JMHO. 

Maybe it’s not, but it just seems that building on an empty lot is less expensive than having to work around existing structures.

As to what would be best for downtown, that’s what the mayor’s bully pulpit is supposed to be for. You mentioned how 20 N Orange is diagonal on the lot - that happened because a previous mayor thought it would be more visually appealing and provide more pedestrian space. He convinced the developer to go with that. 

It’s not that a mayor can’t have a voice in such things (especially in the strong-mayor form of government Orlando has), it’s just that it’s a voice that’s been oddly silent for 20 years.
 

[codypet]

I would say its more visually unique, but does it really provide more ped space?  I feel like that's more a product of the building being set back from the road further than the rest of the buildings on the street.

The diagonal is actually why I was kind of bummed thinking it was this lot because it'd lose its view from I-4.  But if its oriented the same way JFW posted, then it'd be pretty cool.  I like the idea of infilling the heck out of these lots.  

[spenser1058]

44 minutes ago, codypet said:

I would say its more visually unique, but does it really provide more ped space?  I feel like that's more a product of the building being set back from the road further than the rest of the buildings on the street.

The diagonal is actually why I was kind of bummed thinking it was this lot because it'd lose its view from I-4.  But if its oriented the same way JFW posted, then it'd be pretty cool.  I like the idea of infilling the heck out of these lots.  

As I recall, the original plan was for it to be square right up against the street.  It seems putting it on the diagonal required pushing it back. It was of course forty years ago and there wasn’t much of anything competing for the space at the time.

That same discussion with the developer was what led to the pedestrian plaza at CNA2 (is that Seacoast Bank these days?) and the park space at Sun Bank Center.

It’s amazing what a politician can do simply by speaking up - in fact, it’s a major part of a full-time strong mayor’s job. We are paying a chief administrative officer to push paper, the mayor should be the visionary. Otherwise, let’s save the $220,000/year that’s being put to no good use.

Edited May 23, 2022 by spenser1058

[jrs2]

On 5/20/2022 at 7:35 PM, dcluley98 said:

I meant the outline that JFW drew. That is the property, but the outline in yellow is wrong. 

well, this would be a good "tie-in" residential project, to tie in the closest residential to the south (Solaire & 55W) to the next closest residential to the east (Aspire) and then to the north (um, that new 12 story building near Robinson).  Jefferson Street Garage was supposed to be, or was supposed to be just to the east of Cam Kuhn's follow up to The Plaza (with that bowling alley inside it).  The problem is that he ventured into Jax with that office-condo conversion project that I think set him back and then...bust...  So, this proposal would be good to help "vitalize" that corridor to the west of the corner bars and Planet Pizza a little bit more than ten years post what could've been near there... and of course the Dolive reimagined tower that never happened...

[AmIReal]

3 hours ago, spenser1058 said:

As I recall, the original plan was for it to be square right up against the street.  It seems putting it on the diagonal required pushing it back. It was of course forty years ago and there wasn’t much of anything competing for the space at the time.

That same discussion with the developer was what led to the pedestrian plaza at CNA2 (is that Seacoast Bank these days?) and the park space at Sun Bank Center.

It’s amazing what a politician can do simply by speaking up - in fact, it’s a major part of a full-time strong mayor’s job. We are paying a chief administrative officer to push paper, the mayor should be the visionary. Otherwise, let’s save the $220,000/year that’s being put to no good use.

Seriously, I hope our executive officer is not spending a lot of time thinking through the angle of buildings. If he is, he is in the wrong job. You and I define "vision" much differently.

[IAmFloridaBorn]

4 hours ago, codypet said:

I would say its more visually unique, but does it really provide more ped space?  I feel like that's more a product of the building being set back from the road further than the rest of the buildings on the street.

The diagonal is actually why I was kind of bummed thinking it was this lot because it'd lose its view from I-4.  But if its oriented the same way JFW posted, then it'd be pretty cool.  I like the idea of infilling the heck out of these lots.  

I love that angled building. One if my favorite buildings in downtown Orlando with the black windows since most other buildings are blueish. 

But if this new building has legs, what do you mean lose it's view from I4? It'll only be 22 stories which isn't that tall. 

[codypet]

20 N Orange is 16 stories tall if I recall correctly.  A 22 story building occupying the whole lot shown would block its view from I4.

[IAmFloridaBorn]

Anyone have information on these two projects? 

 

[Tim3167]

I think that second rendering is just Zoi.

[Jernigan]

The first one is a proposal for the parcels just south of Sky House.  

The Signsture is just behind DPAC

[IAmFloridaBorn]

21 minutes ago, Jernigan said:

The first one is a proposal for the parcels just south of Sky House.  

The Signsture is just behind D

 

46 minutes ago, Tim3167 said:

I think that second rendering is just Zoi.

I figured as much but the info under didn't match.  Jernigan said it's a proposal behind Performing Arts Center. This one is new to me. 

21 minutes ago, Jernigan said:

The first one is a proposal for the parcels just south of Sky House.  

The Signsture is just behind DPAC

I remember that first one now. It changed height and functions a few times. 

Edited May 24, 2022 by IAmFloridaBorn

[RedStar25]

On 5/2/2022 at 4:25 PM, nite owℓ said:

Taken 5/2/22 around 4PM:

Like I predicted, this is currently a massive eyesore for downtown. The side of the old Masonic Lodge looks horrible and the Rosalind Club put up a fence and a green barrier. This is not an expansion of Lake Eola. This was a huge mistake. Unless the ultimate goal is to tear everything down on that corner and redevelop it or make all of it a part of the park. 

[JFW657]

57 minutes ago, RedStar25 said:

Like I predicted, this is currently a massive eyesore for downtown. The side of the old Masonic Lodge looks horrible and the Rosalind Club put up a fence and a green barrier. This is not an expansion of Lake Eola. This was a huge mistake. Unless the ultimate goal is to tear everything down on that corner and redevelop it or make all of it a part of the park. 

I would only recommend or encourage having a little patience.

Give it a few weeks and see what if any improvements they may have in store.  

[prahaboheme]

20 hours ago, JFW657 said:

I would only recommend or encourage having a little patience.

Give it a few weeks and see what if any improvements they may have in store.  

Patience hasn’t gotten us far in downtown Orlando. I would recommend that everyone raise a huge stink about how horrible this looks and what an embarrassment it is to anyone who cares about downtown Orlando.

Orlando just doesn’t care much anymore about aesthetic  appearances.  They need to be forced into  improvements otherwise, as they’ve shown, the lowest common denominator is the what passed as progress.

[jrs2]

58 minutes ago, prahaboheme said:

Patience hasn’t gotten us far in downtown Orlando. I would recommend that everyone raise a huge stink about how horrible this looks and what an embarrassment it is to anyone who cares about downtown Orlando.

Orlando just doesn’t care much anymore about aesthetic  appearances.  They need to be forced into  improvements otherwise, as they’ve shown, the lowest common denominator is the what passed as progress.

I reckon that City Hall sees this as a major improvement over vagrants sitting in front of the 7-Eleven building right up at the sidewalk.  Maybe that's why they tore it down (short term benefit).  But I heard weeks ago they are looking to demo the old lodge to create an "entrance" into the park.  Maybe they need 'ole Walt's approval first.

[JFW657]

56 minutes ago, jrs2 said:

I reckon that City Hall sees this as a major improvement over vagrants sitting in front of the 7-Eleven building right up at the sidewalk.  Maybe that's why they tore it down (short term benefit).  But I heard weeks ago they are looking to demo the old lodge to create an "entrance" into the park.  Maybe they need 'ole Walt's approval first.

That lodge demo was proposed long ago.

Gonna take money, though.

Probably a lot more than for the Seb'mnaleb'm.

It might be years before it happens. 

[JFW657]

1 hour ago, prahaboheme said:

Patience hasn’t gotten us far in downtown Orlando. I would recommend that everyone raise a huge stink about how horrible this looks and what an embarrassment it is to anyone who cares about downtown Orlando.

Orlando just doesn’t care much anymore about aesthetic  appearances.  They need to be forced into  improvements otherwise, as they’ve shown, the lowest common denominator is the what passed as progress.

I think you're comparing apples and oranges.

Those things for which "Patience hasn’t gotten us far in downtown Orlando...." are private developer and private property issues which the city has relatively little influence over. 

I think in terms of maintaining city owned public spaces and parks, etc., they do a pretty good job.

My guess is that the side of the old lodge will get a coat of paint or some other treatment, and some landscaping will occur in the new park space, hopefully sometime this summer.