Downtown Orlando Project Discussion

[klstorey]

I like the idea of expanding the entertainment complex to both sides of I-4. I would like to see the area below I-4 redone as a large urban park. Have spaces for food trucks, along with fountains, spaces for street entertainers (Which would require a rewrite of current laws itself, but that's a whole different issue). I imagine a mix between CityWalk and the new public space found in Times Square with a dash of the straw markets found throughout the Caribbean. A park doesn't need grass and trees. It could include lighting like that along Church St. Take the entire parking area and remake it as a large park area. It, of course, could include many shade specific plants but instead the use of colored concretes, fountains, and lighting in a dynamic interaction with its other components and the surrounding buildings could create a bridge (no pun intended) between the east and west sides of I-4.

This would be the perfect spot for a bike rental shop, food truck spaces, and maybe some attractions that could be setup during special events. Why not have a mechanical bull, simulator ride, and other easy setup attractions that are found at downtown's competing spaces (CityWalk,Downtown Disney, Old Town, etc.). Of course in the day to day these things would not fit into the downtown fabric but in those times this park could easily be set up as a urban park.

The parking used here could easily be replaced by a small parking garage nearby.

As far as the height goes, will this height level change once the remodel of I-4 happens? Could this remodel of I-4 be the time for this remake of the outdated parking underneath?

[Pete C]

A new salon, called Pure, is opening in the larger available space under the Paramount next to Publix, originally built out to be a bank. The signs say it will be a salon, photography studio, and coffee bar. My first thought was...another salon? Alta Moda is right across the street, and Thornton Park has 3 more.

There looks to be another business coming soon as well on the corner space under the Post apartments at the intersection of Osceola and E Central, right across from Eola Wine Company. I saw some paperwork on the window and what looks to be work going on inside, but the papers don't indicate what kind of business it will be.

Edited October 6, 2011 by Pete C

[spenser1058]

A new salon, called Pure, is opening in the larger available space under the Paramount next to Publix, originally built out to be a bank. The signs say it will be a salon, spa, and coffee bar. My first thought was...another salon? Alta Moda is right across the street, and Thornton Park has 3 more. There looks to be another business coming soon as well on the corner space under the Post apartments at the intersection of Osceola and E Central, right across from Eola Wine Company. I saw some paperwork on the window and what looks to be work going on inside, but the papers don't indicate what kind of business it will be.

Thanks for the update, Pete. Yet another example of a complete lack of guidance on the part of the city toward building a successful, balanced downtown. I still am hopeful that after the election is over, Buddy (and yes, I hope it's Buddy) will finally realize we need actual retail experts downtown. Meanwhile, the amateur hour continues.

I also had to laugh when I saw the name "Pure." It reminded me of the old gas stations in Orlando (and much of the south) that were bought out by Union Oil. "Be Sure With Pure!" Thankfully, most folks probably aren't old enough to remember them, although the brand has recently been resurrected.

[jack]

I don't see how the City can control what sort of retail fills in vacant space.

[spenser1058]

I don't see how the City can control what sort of retail fills in vacant space.

The city cannot "control" it directly; however, there have been a variety of cities that have brought in people with actual retail experience to use their background and experience to form committees to attract retailers (often by bringing in successful regional retailers and asking how they can be attracted downtown), move incentives toward the right sort of retail mix and discourage others, make determinations of things such as retail clusters.

Sometimes it's just a matter of having the right person in the right place. True story: for years, it was an article of faith that Orlando could not support upscale retail. The way it finally broke through was that people who worked for Ivey's were aware of Brazilian tour groups coming to the (then) new Florida Mall and buying everything in sight, even though the mall had opened with nothing more upscale than a Belk's. When some of those Ivey's folks migrated to Saks (a sister unit of BATUS Retail that was about to be dismembered), they took that knowledge along with them and talked Saks into being the first upscale department store in town. Sales blossomed and, once Simon took over from DeBartolo at Florida Mall and then also with Taubman, voila, Orlando had hit the retail big leagues.

Retail has a herd mentality - to make it happen will require someone from within the fraternity (or sorority). In the 1980's, the city made the decision to require retail space on the bottom floor of buildings as a way to move things forward. Sadly, the result of that has been a lot of empty space at the bottom not only of new towers but even in our parking garages. One solution may be to go the other way: do a retail cluster operated by a group like Simon. If they can't be convinced, then have someone with an actual retail background go and find the Florida-based retailers and determine what will be required to make them feel comfortable in a downtown environment. Successful retailers like the local Ace Hardware franchisee, Don Sexton at Down East in Winter Park, the owner of Siegels, might all be brought into the mix.

The bottom line: an endless parade of political hacks in the position (I have nothing against political types, I are one!) have resulted in retail being the one segment of downtown that is not only sitting still, it's actively going backward (as I have posted previously, pick a decade and there was more retail downtown than there is now, with the conspicuous exceptions of Publix and Cobb, both of which are now past achievements that have not been built upon). And, the excuse, "there aren't enough people living downtown yet" won't fly - there are more people living downtown today than there were in the 60's, the 80's or the 90's, but there was more retail in all of those eras. What we need is a new approach to the problem and so far we aren't getting it.

My apologies for being strident on this topic - it's one I feel passionately about because it's the one piece of the puzzle we're ignoring. Almost daily, people talk to me about what downtown is missing - in fact, compared to every other part of town, we have employers, churches, (good!) schools, bars, restaurants, entertainment, you name it - but may God help you if you need a hammer or a pair of underwear. It makes downtown more or less unusable between the time people get off from work until it's time to party.

The vision we had of downtown starting with the Streetscape in the early 80's was that people would pay a premium to live downtown if they did not have the expense and hassle of a car; otherwise, why pay that premium? In fact, people are not paying that premium - they are buying elsewhere. Those who do buy in the single-family areas such as Eola Heights, Lake Lawsona/Thornton Park and Lake Davis/Cherokee are not going to support the core if they have to go the other way (Colonialtown, SoDo) to find the basic necessities of life. We've come so far, let's not drop the ball on this most important component of community life.

[Pete C]

The city cannot "control" it directly; however, there have been a variety of cities that have brought in people with actual retail experience to use their background and experience to form committees to attract retailers (often by bringing in successful regional retailers and asking how they can be attracted downtown), move incentives toward the right sort of retail mix and discourage others, make determinations of things such as retail clusters. Sometimes it's just a matter of having the right person in the right place.

Was a group like you are talking about brought in to work on the unoccupied retail space in 55 West? I believe I read that on the Sentinel recently.

[jack]

Everything you said is right but I think that it will not make a difference. Orlando is no different from other newish southern cities in regard to urban retail. When it comes to retail, I am a pessimist. It is going to take a crazy site selector to get a true services retailer in our core. And most of then are so risk adverse that it may be 5-10 years before they take any chances.

[XpressEnterprise]

Hey Everyone,

I have been away for a while, but now I am back and hopefully nothing else gets in the way. I was in downtown yesterday around the courthouse, and saw the vacant land on Orange and E Livingston. They have signage up for Baker's Plus One building. I know it was planned in 2007, is this project postponed or scrapped all together?

[spenser1058]

Another reason why I believe it's time for the city to be as aggressive as possible to attract retail by bringing actual retail professionals to work on the issue:

Orlando Babies "R" Us and Toys "R" Us closing Sunday

http://www.orlandosentinel.com/business/os-toys-r-us-orlando-20111006,0,5859187.story

This is just the latest example of retail leaving the Colonial Plaza/Fashion Square area. As we know, retail at Fashion Square has a smaller footprint as each day goes by (for example, large chunks of the mall being taken over by the Entrepreneur Center and Planet Fitness and the increasing abandonment of the mall by national retail chains).

As the department stores age (both JCPenney and Dillard's were looking dated the last time I wandered over there - admittedly, that's been a while so an update would be welcomed), now is the time to make the case for replacement to move west and serve downtown, College Park, Ivanhoe, Spring Lake, etc. One assumes that an effective case may be made that incomes in those areas are rising (even the numbers in Parramore should be ascending from the days before any efforts were being made to save it). Is there a place for more retail if, as planned, people spend more time around DPAC than they currently do at Bob Carr? These are the arguments that should be made now, while retail is in flux around the malls and before national retailers are attracted to the 'burbs by major retail developers like Simon (who owns Waterford), leaving us as a retail desert. We've seen this movie before - as late as the 1970's there were as many department and specialty stores along Orange Ave. as you'd find in a mall today. To move that in reverse, we need to take a page from organizations like Simon. Along those lines, it was Lincoln (a major developer downtown) that attracted major retailers downtown with Church Street Market in the late '80's. I'm going to do some research on it, but does anyone know if this a niche they've gotten out of? And as Pete C mentions, is the group handling retail leasing got the background to attract solid retail like that back downtown? I'm reminded of Tradition Towers, where I became immediately cynical about its prospects when a look at its portfolio indicated the developers' background was in low-rise apartments; the only high-rise tower they had ever constructed was a college dorm. Is the city looking for someone with an actual track record of success in attracting retail? If not, I firmly believe that's a priority and should be the first place incentives are directed as the economy recovers.

[spenser1058]

Wekiva Parkway, SunRail get big bucks as I-4 waits

http://www.orlandosentinel.com/os-interstate-4-wekiva-20111004,0,7646822.story

I know this is all about the developers, but I4 is falling apart through downtown. The Parkway really should come after they do something with I4.

[FLClarkKent]

I've never quite understood why Fashion Square never really benefited from the development of Baldwin Park.

As for Colonial Plaza, it seems to hold its own. Babies 'R Us will be the only major vacancy in the center.

[Pete C]

Update on the project across from Eola Wine Company. There is some new paperwork on the window and it says Eola Wine Company ALT.

[mrh3]

I fully support the sentiment, but think that it boils down to a collaboration between 1)Entrepreneurs 2)Landlords 3) Banks 4)City Hall. If City Hall creates an initiative that will attract entrepreneurs and entice banks and landlords to risk the capital retail will begin to emerge. Of course, this is exclusively if it's supported by the population, which it may or may not. Depends on how savvy the entrepreneurs are at predicting what Orlandoans want. This is isn't rocket science, but the political will to execute it might be.

That tells me we have the wrong person in the job trying to sell it. Walgreens opened a unit at 1200 S Kuhl (Kuhl, for God's sake!), which admittedly is mostly prescriptions for ORMC, but there is even a small cafe in there. It points up the kinds of specialty projects Walgreens is increasingly famous for: they have begun to add produce (produce!) at some of their inner-city Chicago stores and are even selling specialty beers in bulk at their Duane Reade stores in NYC. If they aren't thinking outside the suburban box as regards downtown, we have the wrong person from the city making the case. A Walgreens could do well with all the people who work downtown for picking up prescriptions, replacing torn pantyhose and replacing other beauty items, with the after-work folks and the residents mid-evening and then catering to the late night party crowd with the types of things 7-Eleven is selling (if the rumor of a second 7-Eleven coming to the Plaza to join the 55W store is true, they're obviously finding something to sell to those folks). Yes, Publix has a pharmacy (it's the one I use), but it closes early and the stock of health and beauty items is one aisle (versus much of the store in a Walgreens) - if you're looking for much variety, they simply don't have it. And if I get sick late at night, I have to drive to the suburbs when downtown is supposed to be the 24-hour district. Is something wrong with that picture? A drug store is important, but there are other options. The important thing is to start broadening the options of the retail we encourage - the city has dropped the ball entirely on encouraging the types of things people actually use (we do not need more bars, we do not need more restaurants; instead of a candy store, where are the bakeries, butcher shops, seafood stores that residents actually need?) Again, that comes from a retail expert, not a political novice (those are all items that a savvy retail person could attract from local sources - a branch of Petty's Meats? Lombardi's Seafood? The cupcake store over on Corrine Drive? Or, chains like the Meat House that just opened on Orange Ave. in WP. If subsidies are required, let's drive the subsidies in things we need, not more bars, restaurants that we have too many of - not to mention, ahem, candy stores where the product can't be taken into the new arena. Alternatively, maybe Buddy should consider a committee of local retailers from stores like those and the owner of the local Ace Hardware franchise to figure out ways to bring retail back downtown. The bottom line, the people in charge of such things have failed. Let's try another way. Living downtown is expensive and Orlando's median income tends to lag behind other cities. If we want to make the downtown core work so that people can afford to pay the premium to live in towers in the initial selling price (and, more importantly, the ridiculous maintenance fees that accompany them), the easiest way to do that is to remove the need for an automobile. Publix and the theater were an excellent start, but we need someone with the vision to take the next step. Buddy is a problem solver, and the solution to this one is the right person in the job of selling retailers on downtown.

[mrh3]

This idea was attempted in East Harlem. Maybe it'll work in Orlando.

http://www.harlemcdc.com/Planning/planning_market.htm

I like the idea of expanding the entertainment complex to both sides of I-4. I would like to see the area below I-4 redone as a large urban park. Have spaces for food trucks, along with fountains, spaces for street entertainers (Which would require a rewrite of current laws itself, but that's a whole different issue). I imagine a mix between CityWalk and the new public space found in Times Square with a dash of the straw markets found throughout the Caribbean. A park doesn't need grass and trees. It could include lighting like that along Church St. Take the entire parking area and remake it as a large park area. It, of course, could include many shade specific plants but instead the use of colored concretes, fountains, and lighting in a dynamic interaction with its other components and the surrounding buildings could create a bridge (no pun intended) between the east and west sides of I-4. This would be the perfect spot for a bike rental shop, food truck spaces, and maybe some attractions that could be setup during special events. Why not have a mechanical bull, simulator ride, and other easy setup attractions that are found at downtown's competing spaces (CityWalk,Downtown Disney, Old Town, etc.). Of course in the day to day these things would not fit into the downtown fabric but in those times this park could easily be set up as a urban park. The parking used here could easily be replaced by a small parking garage nearby. As far as the height goes, will this height level change once the remodel of I-4 happens? Could this remodel of I-4 be the time for this remake of the outdated parking underneath?

This idea was attempted in East Harlem. Maybe it'll work in Orlando.

http://www.harlemcdc.com/Planning/planning_market.htm

I like the idea of expanding the entertainment complex to both sides of I-4. I would like to see the area below I-4 redone as a large urban park. Have spaces for food trucks, along with fountains, spaces for street entertainers (Which would require a rewrite of current laws itself, but that's a whole different issue). I imagine a mix between CityWalk and the new public space found in Times Square with a dash of the straw markets found throughout the Caribbean. A park doesn't need grass and trees. It could include lighting like that along Church St. Take the entire parking area and remake it as a large park area. It, of course, could include many shade specific plants but instead the use of colored concretes, fountains, and lighting in a dynamic interaction with its other components and the surrounding buildings could create a bridge (no pun intended) between the east and west sides of I-4. This would be the perfect spot for a bike rental shop, food truck spaces, and maybe some attractions that could be setup during special events. Why not have a mechanical bull, simulator ride, and other easy setup attractions that are found at downtown's competing spaces (CityWalk,Downtown Disney, Old Town, etc.). Of course in the day to day these things would not fit into the downtown fabric but in those times this park could easily be set up as a urban park. The parking used here could easily be replaced by a small parking garage nearby. As far as the height goes, will this height level change once the remodel of I-4 happens? Could this remodel of I-4 be the time for this remake of the outdated parking underneath?

Sorry for the double posting.

Edited October 7, 2011 by mrh3

[John Hargrove]

Was a group like you are talking about brought in to work on the unoccupied retail space in 55 West? I believe I read that on the Sentinel recently.

CNL Commercial took over the retail leasing a couple months back. Last news was that they were working on a lease for 5700sqft of the retail. I haven't heard anything since.

See here: http://www.bizjournals.com/orlando/news/2011/08/19/55-west-taps-cnl-commercial-for-retail.html

[aent]

I thought that was original plan when they started building a new 'R' Us center at Waterford? Its moved to Waterford, not gone out of business.

[nite owℓ]

Good news for those of us who like to be Green and see things repurposed:

The request to renovate the former OUC building into a 119 room hotel has received the OK from the Municipal Planning Board.

MPB Agenda

* Project is being developed under the "ALoft" boutique hotel brand (link brings you to aloft's website, w/photos of the brand in other cities)

* Building was sold to GDC Properties for $2.8 million (the same company building the mixed-use apts off Orange & Marks)

* Unofficial est cost to renovate: $6.6 million

* Will include screened outdoor seating and pool area along Orange Ave

* The parking sitch hasn't been figured out yet, but valet will be offered

Edited October 15, 2011 by LDG

[sunshine]

Will the reno hotel has a restaurant?

[spenser1058]

Bike trails pump $42M into Central Florida economy, study says

http://www.orlandose...0,4739335.story

A "Good News" story of building livable communities that, sadly, now Tallahassee wants to "fix."

*sigh*

Edited October 18, 2011 by spenser1058

[XpressEnterprise]

Will anyone be attending Buddy Dyer's State of Downtown Address next week?

http://www.cityoforlando.net/executive/communications/events/stateofdowntown/index.htm

[sunshine]

Been to downtown a lot lately and downtown Orlando is actually pretty busy. I am not sure if it is because of the nice weather, there is definitely more people around downtown.

[XpressEnterprise]

Orlando Getting A New HQ

http://www.groworlan...ing-new-hq.html

Edited October 18, 2011 by XpressEnterprise

[spenser1058]

The Plaza to get Chase Bank branch, moniker

http://www.bizjournals.com/orlando/news/2011/10/18/the-plaza-to-get-chase-bank-branch.html

* Renamed "Chase Plaza"

* RP to sell the Plaza Cinema Cafe, Urban Flats., etc. retail section

We've been waiting for some time to see Chase plant its flag downtown (it's the largest megabank with no retail presence downtown), and here we go. It seems they have big plans for the market if this is any indication. It should also bring even more life to The Plaza.

[spenser1058]

Moody's downgrades Expressway Authority's bonds

http://www.wftv.com/news/news/local/moodys-downgrades-expressway-authoritys-bonds/nFJWm/

This will be interesting to see how it impacts the Wekiva parkway and the state's ham-handed attempted to take over O-OCEA.

[John Hargrove]

The Plaza to get Chase Bank branch, moniker

http://www.bizjourna...ank-branch.html

* Renamed "Chase Plaza"

* RP to sell the Plaza Cinema Cafe, Urban Flats., etc. retail section

We've been waiting for some time to see Chase plant its flag downtown (it's the largest megabank with no retail presence downtown), and here we go. It seems they have big plans for the market if this is any indication. It should also bring even more life to The Plaza.

I was so very happy when I read this. I bank with Chase, live in 55 West and lease office space in The Plaza. One less reason to dust off my car every few weeks ...

I spoke with a member of the DDB last week and was told that the Lymmo East-West expansion is on track and we should see some activity on that soon.

Love it!

Now if only I could get The Plaza office tower management company to do their damn job, I'd be golden.