Downtown Orlando Project Discussion

[spenser1058]

While I think this could be an ok thing, a couple of thoughts come to mind: first, since World of Beer is hardly fine dining, do they do 51% of their business in non-alcohol sales (I've never been to one, so have no clue?) Second, it is of some interest that we want to remove 5 (sort of) historic houses because Eola supposedly doesn't have enough green space, but then remove current green space for this. I'm perplexed. In any event, thanks for posting this - this train seems to be leaving the station rather quickly.

Edited August 21, 2012 by spenser1058

[Tim3167]

The greater than 50% of revenues from food or nonalcoholic drinks seems impossible for a World of Beer location unless they feature $40 chicken fingers. Most WOBs don't feature food at all and if they added enough of a menu to achieve that mix, it no longer feels much like a World of Beer. Many cities I believe have waived this requirement because of World of Beer's arrangement with nearby restaurants.

[klstorey]

Are most WOBs open for lunch? Maybe they plan to have a lunch and early dinner menu then transform into a more typical WOB later on. I think the right menu with outdoor dining could really be popular in that location. (Maybe my long lost love Lake Eola Yacht Club will be revived!) With the amount of events in this section of Lake Eola I could see them easily doing good on food sales for lunch if it's reasonably priced. A menu inspired by the statues nearby would be fabulous. The city would be wise to insist on hours to serve food more than % of overall sales.

Hopefully this will mean they can finally take out the ugly and always dirty Relax Grill. I'd love to see the park expanded in this corner more, the grill takes up way too much land and this corner of the park already feels cramped.

[FLheat]

(Maybe my long lost love Lake Eola Yacht Club will be revived!)

Agreed, Spice has been a disappointment since day 1. I have never had a positive dining experience there. I used to go to LEYC at least twice a week. It has been over 6 months since I have been to Spice.

Hopefully this will mean they can finally take out the ugly and always dirty Relax Grill. I'd love to see the park expanded in this corner more, the grill takes up way too much land and this corner of the park already feels cramped.

They have had their issues in the past, but since they added some cooking space they have cleaned up their act. They are also looking to expand a tiki bar over the reach mulched area. About a month ago they began offering full beverage service.

[Captain.Metro]

While I think this could be an ok thing, a couple of thoughts come to mind: first, since World of Beer is hardly fine dining, do they do 51% of their business in non-alcohol sales (I've never been to one, so have no clue?) Second, it is of some interest that we want to remove 5 (sort of) historic houses because Eola supposedly doesn't have enough green space, but then remove current green space for this. I'm perplexed. In any event, thanks for posting this - this train seems to be leaving the station rather quickly.

Let's be honest, though. The "green space" outside this space is relatively just grass with outside the dining space. We're hardly losing desirable "green space" by the acquirement of this parcel.

[spenser1058]

Let's be honest, though. The "green space" outside this space is relatively just grass with outside the dining space. We're hardly losing desirable "green space" by the acquirement of this parcel.

I agree and it might in fact work out very well. But given that Eola has such limited space to begin with for the city's ceremonial park, the precedent portends a possible slippery slope. That's my only real conundrum.

[klstorey]

I think that's part of the problem, Orlando has grown past just have one ceremonial park. It's time that more activities are shifted to other parks around town, why not do more at Lake Ivanhoe or Parramore Heritage Park? I love Lake Eola but sometimes I think it gets beat up because we use it too much.

[prahaboheme]

It was mentioned somewhere else recently on this thread that Loch Haven Park was conceived as Orlando's "Central Park" but that never reached it's potential. I still think there is a lot of opportunity to heighten Loch Haven's status. The drawback is location. Until it is connected to downtown by streetcar, lightrail, or even Lymmo, it just doesn't have the cache of Lake Eola. We could encourage higher residential density around Loch Haven in order to define it's boundaries better (another drawback).

[Pete C]

It was mentioned somewhere else recently on this thread that Loch Haven Park was conceived as Orlando's "Central Park" but that never reached it's potential. I still think there is a lot of opportunity to heighten Loch Haven's status. The drawback is location. Until it is connected to downtown by streetcar, lightrail, or even Lymmo, it just doesn't have the cache of Lake Eola. We could encourage higher residential density around Loch Haven in order to define it's boundaries better (another drawback).

It needs a lot more than cache to get anywhere near Lake Eola status. If their goal was Central Park they missed by a mile. There is hardly any greenspace, there are no walking trails. How is it even a park? It has a lot of nice trees, but looks more like a museum area with parking lots and a few patches of open grass. Not exactly a place to picnic, play, or walk.

[spenser1058]

I think that's part of the problem, Orlando has grown past just have one ceremonial park. It's time that more activities are shifted to other parks around town, why not do more at Lake Ivanhoe or Parramore Heritage Park? I love Lake Eola but sometimes I think it gets beat up because we use it too much.

They attempted that. The purpose of Constitution Green and Orlando Festival Park (where the skateboard park is) was to take some of the pressure off Eola. This was back after Mayor Bill's 1987 major redo of the park and he envisioned Eola as something Disneyesque to be maintained in pristine condition. It ran into problems almost immediately because one of the first events they tried to move away from Eola was a Hispanic festival. Of course, the planners of the festival immediately claimed that it was discrimination (it really wasn't, it was part of a movement nationwide at the time not to "love our parks to death," including Central Park in Manhattan). They also tried to limit the number of birds in the park at the time (someone figured out one of the major causes of pollution in the lake was bird poop) and, as we know from the explosion of swan droppings along the sidewalks of late, that didn't, um, fly. That was also the period when Mayor Bill, who tended to be a bit of a homophobe, cracked down on Eola as the city's #1 cruising district. With one fell swoop, the city had alienated two of our fastest-growing minority groups plus the bird lovers. Instead of trying again and attempting to be more inclusive of the park's stakeholders, the idea was mostly abandoned.

Edited August 26, 2012 by spenser1058

[JFW657]

If it weren't so desirable as a building construction site & speaking strictly in terms of location, the former "Pizzuti block" would be a great location for park space.

Edited August 26, 2012 by JFW657

[prahaboheme]

Report: Orlando most dangerous city for driving in U.S.

http://www.bizjournals.com/orlando/blog/2012/08/report-orlando-most-dangerous-city.html

Could Orlando's ranking at the top of this list prompt city and state officials to reconsider how roads are built in Central Florida?

[Pete C]

removed

Edited August 30, 2012 by Pete C

[sunshine]

On a side note, Orlando City Soccer thinks that they will become a MLS team in around 2013 and starts playing in the MLS in 2014. President Phil said that a key to getting a MLS team is to build a 20K seats soccer specific stadium. He has talked with the city about it. However, the MLS did not ask for a new stadium.

If they gonna build this, I hope it is somewhere close to the creative village or take out another big chucnks of Paramore. Or it can be on OBT somewhere close to I4 to get the tourists there.

[Jernigan]

I'm pulling for Kaley & Division area near their title sponsor, Orlando Health!

[FLClarkKent]

While Parramore seems like a logical fit (somewhere between Amway and Citrus Bowl), I do like the idea of Kaley and Division. It would be a great redvelopment for that area and help spread the downtown "feel" to SoDo.

[klstorey]

Random Thought- Best story in today's OBJ is the one about Dyer's dogs. Must've been a slow news week.

I don't understand why we can't just retrofit the Citrus Bowl to be a soccer stadium? And the article mentioned a location in north Orange County or even going to Osceola county, neither of those seem like good ideas. What about at OCCC? A large stadium there would be a nice fit and soccer would attract tourists to the games.

[FLClarkKent]

Random Thought- Best story in today's OBJ is the one about Dyer's dogs. Must've been a slow news week.

I don't understand why we can't just retrofit the Citrus Bowl to be a soccer stadium? And the article mentioned a location in north Orange County or even going to Osceola county, neither of those seem like good ideas. What about at OCCC? A large stadium there would be a nice fit and soccer would attract tourists to the games.

From my understanding, these games attract a lot of locals. Putting something in Osceola or at the OCCC might be a deterrent for local fans (IMO).

Like the idea of retro-fitting the Citrus Bowl. Would think Citrus Bowl officials would like the idea of having regular games at the place, too (even though it's European football, lol).

[sunshine]

Citrus bowl can fit 70K people. 3/4 of the stadium will be empty if they have a soccer game there. That's not a good sight.

[JFW657]

While Parramore seems like a logical fit (somewhere between Amway and Citrus Bowl), I do like the idea of Kaley and Division. It would be a great redvelopment for that area and help spread the downtown "feel" to SoDo.

Yeah, & get rid of this place:

[spenser1058]

Hmmmm... the history of the area is blue-collar working class (along Division and generally west of the railroad tracks - yes, the "wrong" side of the tracks although it's not all racial - the city grew from its start along them.) To "save" Parramore (and for other reasons as well), many of the places along West Central, Church, Washington and Robinson where people who get their hands dirty for a living could find jobs at wages above those at McDonald's and Walmart have been closed. Holden Heights, to the south of Parramore with a larger number of single-family dwellings, has suffered a similar fate, although efforts by both the city, the county and OCPS to repair roadways, drainage systems, add parks and invest in Grand Avenue Elementary (a great old building which is the twin of College Park's Princeton School) have made a small but noticeable difference.

Imagine - people actually walking(!) and riding bikes to and from work and school along Parramore and Westmoreland Avenues every day. Isn't this what we want our downtown to be?

If one wants to live in a close-in neighborhood, is a college degree and a Prada suit required? If not, we have to leave some industrial areas to make sure there are jobs for everyone. Or Is our goal an urban theme park?

I also had to wonder about the person in one of the articles who had a problem with using the funds to include soldiers on horses, even though many folks admire such sculptures and which help to tell the story of the community (isn't it fascinating there's nothing in town commemorating the Seminole Indian wars and the beginnings of the citrus industry which drove our history and our economy until well after WWII other than static exhibits at the OC Regional History Center?) I think there's room for abstract art but also for more traditional pieces that tell the story of a place too many people insist has no history.

[jack]

We need to keep as much industrial as possible around downtown. Everyone cannot be apart of the "Creative Class". That area provides a lot of jobs for residents.

[JFW657]

Don't see why. Plenty of areas for that off of NOBT & down in Taft.

Besides, there will always be plenty of industry in that area, it just doesn't have to be right out on the main thouroughfares like Kaley.

That place is an eyesore.

[Jernigan]

On the 10th City Council will be approving RIDA to replace coming soon signs with project signs.

Between this and the Skyhouse ground breaking announcement, im sure thet this forum just collectively exhaled. It had been quiet for a while.

Ok, now back to holding our breath!

[FLClarkKent]

Thanks for the update. Any changes or more details to the RIDA plan?

And, before I forget, any word on the Cambria Suites project? I'm running up and down Rosalind during the week, and I keep thinking that the Cambria project will be a great infill piece...if it ever happens.