Downtown Orlando Project Discussion

[CaptainJustice]

I wonder if they'll keep the existing parking garage there now that that they're talking about buying the rest of the block.

 

Would be nice to have all those spaces right there & it's not a bad looking garage.

Hope not the thing is hideous. It would be nice to build a parking Garage on that parcel of land North of City View used for extra parking now though.

I think the move west is a good one... a good step towards revitalizing the area around the Citrus Bowl.

I was hoping for a move on the other side of I-4 but your reasoning is so true.

Hopefully the new police HQ comes with a Krispy Creme...I missed the one by Millenia.

I had a mod like this in Sim City 4 lol

[CaptainJustice]

Would it be too much to build a police headquarters adjacent to the Fire Staion 1 where the Oly Lynx Station used to be.

[demon]

I live downtown & enjoy cycling as many places as possible. I've used the Urban Trail that runs just north of downtown a few times. I believe there was some talk of extending it all the way down to South St VIA Gertrude's Walk. Anyone know anything about that?

[sunshine]

Would it be too much to build a police headquarters adjacent to the Fire Staion 1 where the Oly Lynx Station used to be.

 

I actually envision that lot to be a multi stories Macy's.

[FLClarkKent]

I live downtown & enjoy cycling as many places as possible. I've used the Urban Trail that runs just north of downtown a few times. I believe there was some talk of extending it all the way down to South St VIA Gertrude's Walk. Anyone know anything about that?

If you Google "Orlando Urban Trail," you'll find the map that shows how Getrude's Walk woul be connected to the Urban Trail (from Lynx Central Station, across a pedestrian bridge over Colonial, and then an extension of trail through Uptown to the existing trail head).

 

When all of this might happen is anyone's guess, from what I can gather. I haven't heard any news of when work might get underway.

[CaptainJustice]

I actually envision that lot to be a multi stories Macy's.

 hahah why is that?

[Jernigan]

Here are some resources for the Urban Trail

 

NE Orlando Trail map (current): http://www.cityoforlando.net/gis/pdf/Transportation/Trail%20Maps/NETrailMap.pdf

NE Orlando Trail map (planned): http://www.cityoforlando.net/gis/pdf/Transportation/Trail%20Plans/NETrailPlan.pdf

LYNX Orlando Trail (LYNX Station to Church Street Station segment): http://www.golynx.com/about-lynx/what-we-are-working-on/lynx-orlando.stml

 

Also - Winter Park is looking at adding complementary signage north of Mead Gardens to help riders find the best route to get into downtown WP from the Urban Trail. 

[sunshine]

 hahah why is that?

I dunno...just a feeling that it is a perfect location for a department store...and when u think of downtown department store....u think of Macy's...

 

Highly visible lot and next to the "retails" in Church Street Station. Who wants to live so close to the highway if they are building condos there...I would not buy it unless it is cheap...

[FLClarkKent]

Here are some resources for the Urban Trail

 

NE Orlando Trail map (current): http://www.cityoforlando.net/gis/pdf/Transportation/Trail%20Maps/NETrailMap.pdf

NE Orlando Trail map (planned): http://www.cityoforlando.net/gis/pdf/Transportation/Trail%20Plans/NETrailPlan.pdf

LYNX Orlando Trail (LYNX Station to Church Street Station segment): http://www.golynx.com/about-lynx/what-we-are-working-on/lynx-orlando.stml

 

Also - Winter Park is looking at adding complementary signage north of Mead Gardens to help riders find the best route to get into downtown WP from the Urban Trail. 

 

Thanks for the links!

[codypet]

I am not sure of the exact route as originally proposed but it would have been several miles west, not unlike the way I4 currently skirts Lakeland and Winter Haven.

I thought I remember seeing it would have roughly run where JYP is today.

[rich305]

State unveils changes to come with I-4 widening

 

http://www.wftv.com/news/news/local/state-unveils-changes-come-i-4-widening/nWgf9/

• $13 round trip from Longwood to downtown during peak time via the express lanes? Kinda steep =(

Edited March 5, 2013 by rich305

[FLClarkKent]

I love that Republicans like John Mica can't bear to even talk about raising taxes, but they're totally cool with tolls on publicly funded roads. Hooray for semantics, I suppose.

 

Anywho, while I hate the idea of toll lanes on I-4, I do believe that the $13 fee might inspire some folks to consider riding a train.

 

This entire I-4 project is coming online just in time to help SunRail, which will offer an alternative to the traffic congestion that is bound to take place during construction.

[rich305]

Anywho, while I hate the idea of toll lanes on I-4, I do believe that the $13 fee might inspire some folks to consider riding a train.

 

This entire I-4 project is coming online just in time to help SunRail, which will offer an alternative to the traffic congestion that is bound to take place during construction.

 

That's what Im hoping for too.

Edited March 5, 2013 by rich305

[aent]

I love that Republicans like John Mica can't bear to even talk about raising taxes, but they're totally cool with tolls on publicly funded roads. Hooray for semantics, I suppose.

 

Anywho, while I hate the idea of toll lanes on I-4, I do believe that the $13 fee might inspire some folks to consider riding a train.

 

This entire I-4 project is coming online just in time to help SunRail, which will offer an alternative to the traffic congestion that is bound to take place during construction.

I think the optional toll lanes are really a great concept that should be on every highway suffering from major congestion issues. A few important points:

1) The express lane roads are not going to be publicly funded. Its a $2 billion project, but the state is contributing $900 million, and the other $1.1 billion is supposed to come from private investors for an investment funded by the tolls to pay for the toll lanes.

2) I think most republicans are against raising mandatory taxes (income, sales, etc), but are very pro use taxes so they pay for the services they receive, but don't fund other people's usage of public services (well, in theory anyways)

3) One of the big goals of this project IS to push train ridership on sunrail, part of the reason they waited on it was so sunrail could be operational before starting construction. this is going to be a big boom for sunrail designed to help ensure it looks very good with the numbers being met once it comes online.

 

4) Express lanes help to reduce sunrail (and other alternate transportation) users don't need to pay for the highway they are not using. A big reason mass transit is so unsuccessful in this country is people have trouble calculating the true cost of driving, between vehicle maintenance and taxes. More funding from tolls is directly associated with driving, making mass transit viewed more favorably by the public. A "penny" sales tax for roads is mass transit's worst nightmare.

5) The express lanes are optional, and will take people off of the general use lanes. Those who pay are also paying to increase service for those who don't pay. People get to decide if $13 is worth it for them. And when a person is running late to a job that is going to fire them if they're running late again, its very worth it to pay the $13 to avoid being late. Or if the person's time is valued by a company as $50/hour, they will happily pay $13 to cut travel time by 30 minutes (net savings for them of $27 for them). It boosts productivity of employees making companies more successful. Look at it in Miami, it really was very successful there.

[rich305]

While Im not totally against tolls for new lanes, i think $13 is too high... at that cost it becomes a situation where those can afford it get an easier drive and for those of you that cant, well sorry about your luck, you get to sit in traffic. Another case of haves vs have nots. And as far as Miami is concerned, from what it looks like their tolls arent as high as this

 

for example, say i head south at 8 i pay 4.25 and head back north at 6 i pay $3.50-$4

 

http://173.193.186.127/pages/usage-guidelines/tolling-typical-toll-amount/northbound-95-express-typical-toll-rates

 

http://173.193.186.127/pages/usage-guidelines/tolling-typical-toll-amount/southbound-95-express-typical-toll-rates

[aent]

While Im not totally against tolls for new lanes, i think $13 is too high... at that cost it becomes a situation where those can afford it get an easier drive and for those of you that cant, well sorry about your luck, you get to sit in traffic. Another case of haves vs have nots. And as far as Miami is concerned, from what it looks like their tolls arent as high as this

 

for example, say i head south at 8 i pay 4.25 and head back north at 6 i pay $3.50-$4

 

http://173.193.186.127/pages/usage-guidelines/tolling-typical-toll-amount/northbound-95-express-typical-toll-rates

 

http://173.193.186.127/pages/usage-guidelines/tolling-typical-toll-amount/southbound-95-express-typical-toll-rates

 

I believe the $13 number came from the maximum proposed rate for the entire 20+ mile stretch, I don't think that is what it would be on a normal rush hour, just where an accident has closed several lanes and everyone is willing to go onto the toll lanes. Its the same type of system used in Miami that is supposed to set the rates...  From the links you gave, last week, there were points where the toll was $6.75 and $5. I-95's maximum toll there is $7.25 for 7.3 miles of travel. I-4 is a maximum of $13 for 20 miles of travel, a lower maximum rate per mile. Phase 2 in South Florida could double it to max $14.50 if you travel the 20 miles down there at peak toll rates.

 

The rates are still supposed to start at 25 cents per section, and increased by 25 cents each time when traffic in the express lanes slows below 50mph.

 

In Miami, before they had the tolled lanes, the general lanes had an average speed of 18 MPH, and after they added one new lane and converted the HOV lane to express (with no additional lanes on the free section, rather one less as no more HOV), the FREE LANES increased from 18 MPH avg to 41 MPH. The Express lanes: 56 MPH. And they found it mostly wasn't rich, upper people using it, rather middle and lower people who were in a rush to get to work. Rich people don't have as strict deadlines on the time to get to work... they usually get to set there schedule to avoid traffic so express lanes aren't solving a problem for them, most of the time.

[Jernigan]

I4 is going to be the same way 8 I think. After all it is a variable toll like 95.

From what I had read about it over the years to the media coverage now, it's borderline irresponsible reporting to rile up social media engagement.

As long as it mirrors what they are doing and have done in south fla, I'm ok with it. It's speeding up travel down there for both users of the express lanes and non users.

I don't see the relationship between sunrail and the toll lanes being as correlated as the Trirail and 95 project. Tri Rail has very little to stand on other than being an alternative to I95. Sunrail is much more integrated and should keep riders even when tolls are low and construction is over because its just a good way to get to work.

[aent]

I don't see the relationship between sunrail and the toll lanes being as correlated as the Trirail and 95 project. Tri Rail has very little to stand on other than being an alternative to I95. Sunrail is much more integrated and should keep riders even when tolls are low and construction is over because its just a good way to get to work.

 

While I agree with that, FDOT is presenting it in a similar manner and I think believes it will be somewhat similar  as a result of the current car mentality in Florida. However, with SunRail's better integration into its surroundings and upcoming developments, it should be better at retaining the riders when they try it out, and if SunRail is more comfortable then driving, even if they try it out because of construction traffic, they're more likely to decide to stick with it. And good ridership numbers early on (even if its a result of construction) will push developers to expand on integrating with it. I just hope SunRail increases its frequency.

[bic]

I live in Miami and use the express lanes pretty much whenever I'm driving on I-95 North. The maximum toll rate I've seen has been around $7-7.50 and I've only seen that maybe 3-4 times. Usually it has been when there's a Monday Night Football Dolphins game coinciding with rush hour traffic or some other oddball coincidence. In fact, even seeing a toll rate higher than $3 is pretty rare. Most of the time during the afternoon it's about $1-1.50 and just 25 cents during off-peak hours.

 

I was very skeptical of the express lanes before they opened (and even for a short time after they opened) but once you get used to using them, you never want to go back. Even if you are morally opposed to the idea of express lanes, you'll be glad they exist when you're running late for something and can't be bothered to sit in bumper-to-bumper traffic.

 

Furthermore, they help mass transit operate more efficiently, as they allow for buses to travel without having to cope with traffic.

[Jernigan]

VERY detailed video now available on Ultimate I-4 project - 18 mins long:

http://www.moving-4-ward.com

[smileguy]

It looks like there are going to be some added exits/entrances that are tolled access only - Central Pkwy/Majesty Bldg in Altamonte Springs and Grand National Drive near Universal.  Grand National Drive is now going to extend over I-4, which could be a game-changer for Festival Bay and the North end of I-Drive.

Edited March 7, 2013 by smileguy

[gibby]

Excellent video.  I'm still bummed that they won't bridge it between Washington and Livingston.  There are no proposed ramps in that area that would make it impossible.  It would help connect both sides of I-4 and would really help the Creative Village IMO.

[smileguy]

Excellent video.  I'm still bummed that they won't bridge it between Washington and Livingston.  There are no proposed ramps in that area that would make it impossible.  It would help connect both sides of I-4 and would really help the Creative Village IMO.

 

Think of the wonder a tunnel would do!

[sunshine]

I am mix feeling about this video. I understand that they have to improve the road way...but spending so much money to rebuild I-4... there are just too much asphalt...

 

If I remembered correctly, they decided to do this despite the citizen of Orlando rejected it. I can only hope they are this committed in term of subway, trains, monorail.....

 

We will always have traffic jams no matter what u do to I-4....

[Jernigan]

We will have traffic no matter what we do. As individuals, we can be aware and try to live close to work and in areas that are walkable and have mostly everything we need in a short radius. As a region, though - we don't have many geographical boundaries, lots more development to come and people are still eager to move here.

The areas with wide roads AND great transit are also some of the most congested.