Downtown Orlando Project Discussion

[bulldogger]

I thought I-4 was supposed to have 4 lanes in each direction over JYP. Does anyone have a design link? Also, does anyone have a design link for the new Rosalind Ave. off ramp from the East-West?

I think you are right on this, but it doesn't refer to the exact amount of lanes on the trans4mation website (at least that I could find).

[JRS1]

The new I-4 lanes are open going over John Young, westbound.

This stretch of road is only 3 lanes wide.

Who the hell designs this garbage?

I went to the trans4mation meeting at City Hall months back and those M****r F****s told me this: "well, you know it's the whole unbridled growth thing... we can't go on making highways super wide out of control..."

All those "keep the highways narrow to keep people from using them" are the reason that JYP's overpass isn't 8 lanes. F**k them too. I'm pissed now.

what a load of crap.

[Chemmie]

I went to the trans4mation meeting at City Hall months back and those M****r F****s told me this: "well, you know it's the whole unbridled growth thing... we can't go on making highways super wide out of control..."

All those "keep the highways narrow to keep people from using them" are the reason that JYP's overpass isn't 8 lanes. F**k them too. I'm pissed now.

what a load of crap.

You'd think anyone with a remedial education could figure that one out.

Leave it to government to be the ones who can't.

Morons.

[bulldogger]

I went to the trans4mation meeting at City Hall months back and those M****r F****s told me this: "well, you know it's the whole unbridled growth thing... we can't go on making highways super wide out of control..."

All those "keep the highways narrow to keep people from using them" are the reason that JYP's overpass isn't 8 lanes. F**k them too. I'm pissed now.

what a load of crap.

It wouldn't be that bad if we had other modes of transportation available, but wait... we ain't got sh!t.

So all of the construction over the past few years at that intersection has been over an off ramp??? WTF!!! What a waste of time and money. For that, they should have left it alone. If all you're gonna do is make it prettier, then, just repaint the lines and put the money elsewhere.

Edited August 10, 2006 by bulldogger

[cwetteland]

It wouldn't be that bad if we had other modes of transportation available, but wait... we ain't got sh!t.

So all of the construction over the past few years at that intersection has been over an off ramp??? WTF!!! What a waste of time and money. For that, they should have left it alone. If all you're gonna do is make it prettier, then, just repaint the lines and put the money elsewhere.

It wasn't meant to be an I-4 upgrade ... it was a JYP and LBM upgrade. That's my take.

[wally2169]

I went to the trans4mation meeting at City Hall months back and those M****r F****s told me this: "well, you know it's the whole unbridled growth thing... we can't go on making highways super wide out of control..."

All those "keep the highways narrow to keep people from using them" are the reason that JYP's overpass isn't 8 lanes. F**k them too. I'm now.

what a load of crap.

I couldn't agree more, what a frickin joke

Widening I-4 will not bring more sprawl through Orlando, the sprawl is already there, the interstate simply has not been able to keep up with it

It's the same logic when going through security screening at the airport: you cannot have a lighter on board but you can have a book of matches (although today's events will hopefully indicate a change on that)

I really wish Mobility 20/20 passed

4 general purpose lanes and 2 toll lanes for faster driving in each direction would have been great

Wouldn't solve the problem but would helped immensley

[JRS1]

I'm waiting to see if FDOT actually makes the TNPK 8 lanes from 528 to I-4 like their website has posted for the last 2 years. SOmehow I think that it will only be expanded to 6 lanes.

[neon9]

I went to the trans4mation meeting at City Hall months back and those M****r F****s told me this: "well, you know it's the whole unbridled growth thing... we can't go on making highways super wide out of control..."

All those "keep the highways narrow to keep people from using them" are the reason that JYP's overpass isn't 8 lanes. F**k them too. I'm pissed now.

what a load of crap.

Maybe it will be expanded later...FDOT did the same thing with the new St. Johns River Bridge, it was just 2 lanes for a while....but IIRC they had the extra lane just covered up with barrels. I think it was like that for months.

[EngineerNole]

Ummm... They are going to widen I-4 throughout downtown and further. So why in the hell did they not widen the John Young Pkwy portion? This just doesn't make sense. I guess they plan to come back at a later time and widen it?!! What a waste of money.

[JRS1]

Maybe it will be expanded later...FDOT did the same thing with the new St. Johns River Bridge, it was just 2 lanes for a while....but IIRC they had the extra lane just covered up with barrels. I think it was like that for months.

If I was at FDOT I would keep it simple as this and in this order:

1. Redo the 436 overpass in Altamonte (not that simple)

2. Widen Lee Rd. bridge

3. replace Kirkman overpasses

4. widen 434 overpass

5. widen the new JYP bridges

6. widen Sand Lake overpass

widen I-4 from Lee to Lake Mary Blvd.

widen I-4 from JYP to Sand Lake

they don't need to do some super reconstruction of I-4. just those overpasses will do wonders for traffic. for now.

[JRS1]

Update from FDOT's website:

NORTHERN TURNPIKE

TOLL 408 INTERCHANGE CONSTRUCTION

This $29 million project adds ramps to and from the south and completes this system-to-system interchange of Florida's Turnpike with Toll 408 (Spessard B. Holland East-West Expressway). Construction began in Dec. 2004 and will be completed in the summer of 2006.

MAINLINE WIDENING - Beachline EXPRESSWAY TO BEULAH ROAD (MILEPOST 254-270)

To be constructed in phases, this $291.5 million project consists of widening Florida's Turnpike from the Toll Road 528 Interchange to Interstate 4, and from Interstate 4 to Beulah Road in Orange County. MAINLINE TURNPIKE WIDENING PROJECT (MILEPOSTS 254-259)

In the first phase of this major widening project which is expected to be completed by Nov. 2007, two new lanes will be added in each direction to Florida's Turnpike between Toll 528 and Interstate 4. Also included in this $77.5 million project are the reconstruction and widening of the Shingle Creek Bridge, the overpasses at Toll 528, Orange Blossom Trail (US 17/92/441), Oak Ridge Road, Sand Lake Road and Interstate 4 ramps.

The project includes setting barrier walls and installing asphalt to accommodate temporary travel lanes during construction as well as activities associated with demolition work and new construction on Shingle Creek Bridge. Construction activities will occur behind the barrier wall with no lane closures currently scheduled during the day. Motorists should exercise caution while traveling in the area, and watch for construction vehicles entering and exiting the work zone.

Motorists traveling on Toll 528 between mileposts 3-5 should expect delays due to intermittent, single lane closures, both east- and westbound, Sunday through Thursday from 10 p.m. - 6 a.m. In addition, there will be single lane closures in each direction at Consulate Drive, US 17-92/441 (Orange Blossom Trail) and on the Turnpike mainline between mileposts 254-259 from 10 p.m. to 6 a.m. Motorists should expect flagging operations near the Exit 255 ramp at Consulate Drive during off-peak daylight hours as construction materials are delivered to the site.

MAINLINE TURNPIKE WIDENING PROJECT (MILEPOSTS 260-270)

This $214 project, scheduled to begin in March 2007 and completed by April 2011, adds two lanes in each direction between Interstate 4 and Beulah Road. Construction includes widening the existing bridges over Interstate 4 and Apopka-Vineland Road, replacing the Kirkman Road and Gotha Road bridges over Florida's Turnpike, and replacing the bridge over Beulah Road. Additionally, Florida's Turnpike will make improvements at the Interstate 4, SR 408 and SR 429 interchanges. Auxiliary lanes also will be added between SR 408 and SR 429.

TOLL 429 - THE DANIEL WEBSTER WESTERN BELTWAY - PART C

This new 11-mile, $313 million, limited-access toll road provides an alternate north-south route between Florida's Turnpike and Interstate 4. Located west of Orlando near the Disney/Celebration attractions corridor, the Western Beltway also provides easy access to Toll 417 (the Central Florida GreeneWay). Full interchanges will be located at Interstate 4, Sinclair Road, US 192 and Western Way. A partial interchange will be located at Seidel Road.

Construction began in May 2004. The roadway section between CR 535 and US 192 will open to traffic by Dec. 2005. The final section, between US 192 and Interstate 4 will open to traffic by Dec. 2006. Click here for more information including aerial maps and a project report detailing the joint native plant rescue effort with Historic Bok Sanctuary.

NEW INTERCHANGE AT KISSIMMEE PARK ROAD (MILEPOST 240)

This $18.9 million project includes construction of a SunPass-only northbound on ramp and a SunPass-only southbound off ramp at Kissimmee Park Road near its intersection with Old Canoe Creek Road. Included in the project are the reconstruction and realignment of the Kissimmee Park Road Bridge over the Turnpike, and the reconstruction of Kissimmee Park Road and removal of the curve in its alignment with Old Canoe Creek Road east of the bridge. The project limits extend to the west near Clay Whaley Road.

Although there will be ongoing additional work as part of the project, weather permitting, the new ramps are scheduled to open by the end of the year. Upon completion, this project will provide significant congestion relief at the Turnpike

[wally2169]

Update from FDOT's website:

NORTHERN TURNPIKE

TOLL 408 INTERCHANGE CONSTRUCTION

This $29 million project adds ramps to and from the south and completes this system-to-system interchange of Florida's Turnpike with Toll 408 (Spessard B. Holland East-West Expressway). Construction began in Dec. 2004 and will be completed in the summer of 2006.

MAINLINE WIDENING - Beachline EXPRESSWAY TO BEULAH ROAD (MILEPOST 254-270)

To be constructed in phases, this $291.5 million project consists of widening Florida's Turnpike from the Toll Road 528 Interchange to Interstate 4, and from Interstate 4 to Beulah Road in Orange County. MAINLINE TURNPIKE WIDENING PROJECT (MILEPOSTS 254-259)

In the first phase of this major widening project which is expected to be completed by Nov. 2007, two new lanes will be added in each direction to Florida's Turnpike between Toll 528 and Interstate 4. Also included in this $77.5 million project are the reconstruction and widening of the Shingle Creek Bridge, the overpasses at Toll 528, Orange Blossom Trail (US 17/92/441), Oak Ridge Road, Sand Lake Road and Interstate 4 ramps.

The project includes setting barrier walls and installing asphalt to accommodate temporary travel lanes during construction as well as activities associated with demolition work and new construction on Shingle Creek Bridge. Construction activities will occur behind the barrier wall with no lane closures currently scheduled during the day. Motorists should exercise caution while traveling in the area, and watch for construction vehicles entering and exiting the work zone.

Motorists traveling on Toll 528 between mileposts 3-5 should expect delays due to intermittent, single lane closures, both east- and westbound, Sunday through Thursday from 10 p.m. - 6 a.m. In addition, there will be single lane closures in each direction at Consulate Drive, US 17-92/441 (Orange Blossom Trail) and on the Turnpike mainline between mileposts 254-259 from 10 p.m. to 6 a.m. Motorists should expect flagging operations near the Exit 255 ramp at Consulate Drive during off-peak daylight hours as construction materials are delivered to the site.

MAINLINE TURNPIKE WIDENING PROJECT (MILEPOSTS 260-270)

This $214 project, scheduled to begin in March 2007 and completed by April 2011, adds two lanes in each direction between Interstate 4 and Beulah Road. Construction includes widening the existing bridges over Interstate 4 and Apopka-Vineland Road, replacing the Kirkman Road and Gotha Road bridges over Florida's Turnpike, and replacing the bridge over Beulah Road. Additionally, Florida's Turnpike will make improvements at the Interstate 4, SR 408 and SR 429 interchanges. Auxiliary lanes also will be added between SR 408 and SR 429.

TOLL 429 - THE DANIEL WEBSTER WESTERN BELTWAY - PART C

This new 11-mile, $313 million, limited-access toll road provides an alternate north-south route between Florida's Turnpike and Interstate 4. Located west of Orlando near the Disney/Celebration attractions corridor, the Western Beltway also provides easy access to Toll 417 (the Central Florida GreeneWay). Full interchanges will be located at Interstate 4, Sinclair Road, US 192 and Western Way. A partial interchange will be located at Seidel Road.

Construction began in May 2004. The roadway section between CR 535 and US 192 will open to traffic by Dec. 2005. The final section, between US 192 and Interstate 4 will open to traffic by Dec. 2006. Click here for more information including aerial maps and a project report detailing the joint native plant rescue effort with Historic Bok Sanctuary.

NEW INTERCHANGE AT KISSIMMEE PARK ROAD (MILEPOST 240)

This $18.9 million project includes construction of a SunPass-only northbound on ramp and a SunPass-only southbound off ramp at Kissimmee Park Road near its intersection with Old Canoe Creek Road. Included in the project are the reconstruction and realignment of the Kissimmee Park Road Bridge over the Turnpike, and the reconstruction of Kissimmee Park Road and removal of the curve in its alignment with Old Canoe Creek Road east of the bridge. The project limits extend to the west near Clay Whaley Road.

Although there will be ongoing additional work as part of the project, weather permitting, the new ramps are scheduled to open by the end of the year. Upon completion, this project will provide significant congestion relief at the Turnpike

[bic]

Road needs may take toll on you

Toll increases would be 1st in 15 years

Commuters may have to pay more to drive on some Central Florida toll roads so transportation planners can collect extra money to build other needed roads.

The Orlando-Orange County Expressway Authority is considering raising tolls for the first time in more than 15 years on the byways it governs along State Road 408 and parts of S.R. 429, 417 and 528.

[Read More...]

Current tolls will pay for

-Widening S.R. 408 from Hiawassee to Interstate 4 and from Rosalind Avenue to Goldenrod Road

-Buying right of way for Maitland Boulevard Extension.

-Design for Wekiva Parkway

-Building interchanges at S.R. 528 and Narcoossee Road and S.R. 408 and Good Homes Road.

Raising tolls could pay for

-Widening S.R. 408 from Good Homes Road to Hiawassee Road, from Goldenrod Road to Chickasaw Trail and from Chickasaw Trail to S.R. 417

-Building Maitland Boulevard Extension from S.R. 429 to Boy Scout Road and Boy Scout Road to U.S. 441.

-Interchanges at:

-S.R. 528/Innovation Way

-S.R. 417/Innovation Way

-S.R. 417/Moss Park Road

-S.R. 417/Boggy Creek Road

-S.R. 417/Florida Turnpike

Orlando Sentinel Article

[JRS1]

With relation to the part of the 528 at I-4, does this mean the Beeline/I-4 interchange is going to be rebuilt?

I don't know. God I hope so.

With regards to bic's article--- I say just raise them and lets get these roads built. I mean, what else can they do for $$$?

[bic]

I had to read this quote twice to make sure I understood it correctly because it sounded so absurd the first time:

"I have real serious concerns about raising the tolls for expansion," [Orange County Commissioner Teresa] Jacobs said. "Should the people who just want to drive to work have to bear the cost of development? I think it's an unreasonable burden."

Usually the argument around here is that if people want something new, it should be paid for by those who will use it. The very reason why we have tolls on most of our expressways is so that they can be more or less self-sufficient and be expanded and maintained with the money collected from the commuters who use the roads. If Teresa Jacobs expects an expansion of the expressway system, who does she expect to pay for it?

Likewise, it's not like the Expressway Authority is raising tolls every year like Disney is raising ticket prices. When the system debuted in 1973, the tolls were 20 cents. 7 years later there was a 20% increase to 25 cents. 7 years after that they doubled to 50 cents. In 1990, the increase was 50% to 75 cents. Looking at this trend it seems like the tolls should have been at $1.00 at least 10 years ago. During the last 16 metro Orlando has been one of the fastest growing regions in the country, and a sprawling one at that. It's shocking that the tolls haven't been increased during that time, especially considering how vital the expressways are to our growth. They need added lanes, new interchanges, reconfigured interchanges, tollbooth improvements, etc.

Oh, and there's this little thing called inflation. According to the consumer price index, 75 cents in 1990 is equal to about 50 cents in 2005. You have to increase tolls just to keep up with inflation, not to mention the rising construction costs that have been plaguing recent development proposals.

To me this is a no-brainer.

[nicahrens]

Ummm... They are going to widen I-4 throughout downtown and further. So why in the hell did they not widen the John Young Pkwy portion? This just doesn't make sense. I guess they plan to come back at a later time and widen it?!! What a waste of money.

I don't think it's safe nor smart to widen just one section of I4 (aka the new bridge at JYP) and then keep the rest of the interstate at six lanes due to incomplete construction. I expect they will widen it to eight soon. I4 EB still has barricades on the bridge, and going WB, the bridge has loads of space to widen when time permits, once more of I4 towards the east and west are all ready I expect one big eight lane coming-out party!

Edited August 14, 2006 by nicahrens

[neon9]

"I have real serious concerns about raising the tolls for expansion," [Orange County Commissioner Teresa] Jacobs said. "Should the people who just want to drive to work have to bear the cost of development? I think it's an unreasonable burden."

Usually the argument around here is that if people want something new, it should be paid for by those who will use it. The very reason why we have tolls on most of our expressways is so that they can be more or less self-sufficient and be expanded and maintained with the money collected from the commuters who use the roads. If Teresa Jacobs expects an expansion of the expressway system, who does she expect to pay for it?

I see what she's saying though-the toll roads were built to get people from the fringes (mostly) to somewhere else quickly...espically work. Now they are going to have the rates jacked up to mostly provide additional exits for more new development? Of course like you said inflation should have pushed up the prices if nothing else.

[cwetteland]

I had to read this quote twice to make sure I understood it correctly because it sounded so absurd the first time:

"I have real serious concerns about raising the tolls for expansion," [Orange County Commissioner Teresa] Jacobs said. "Should the people who just want to drive to work have to bear the cost of development? I think it's an unreasonable burden."

Usually the argument around here is that if people want something new, it should be paid for by those who will use it.

Exactly. The current user tolls are paying for all the improvements, widening etc of existing roads just fine. But when developers around Nona or Ocoee want new interchanges so they can market their new developments ... it's difficult to ask the person who drives on the existing stretches to pick up the tab for something solely intended to profit someone else.

Edited August 15, 2006 by cwetteland

[demon]

Exactly. The current user tolls are paying for all the improvements, widening etc of existing roads just fine. But when developers around Nona or Ocoee want new interchanges so they can market their new developments ... it's difficult to ask the person who drives on the existing stretches to pick up the tab for something solely intended to profit someone else.

I think that the longstanding tolls on the 408 & possibly 417 should be taken down if those roads are paid for. let the people who use the 429 and any expansions pay for those. They shouldn't be paid for by people going from downtown to 436.

[JRS1]

Exactly. The current user tolls are paying for all the improvements, widening etc of existing roads just fine. But when developers around Nona or Ocoee want new interchanges so they can market their new developments ... it's difficult to ask the person who drives on the existing stretches to pick up the tab for something solely intended to profit someone else.

I don't know. mixed feelings here. IMO, Orlando is still "forming" and gaining clout with every new project and development. I say leave the tolls and/ or increase them-- even for the Lake Nona people, b/c when entities like Burnham come knocking, we need to be ready to answer their call--- and ultimately the entire region will benefit.

[sunshine]

My opinion is that if they are going to build new road, plan on using the money they will get from the new road and not the existing road.

If they are going to use the money that people pay for the existing road to build new road, then charge us again when we use the new road, that's double charge.

And somewhere in between the process, certain people get extremely rich.

[chippy]

Exactly. The current user tolls are paying for all the improvements, widening etc of existing roads just fine. But when developers around Nona or Ocoee want new interchanges so they can market their new developments ... it's difficult to ask the person who drives on the existing stretches to pick up the tab for something solely intended to profit someone else.

Correct me if I am wrong. But, I think the Lake Nona Interchange on SR 417 was paid for by the developer.

[chippy]

I think that the longstanding tolls on the 408 & possibly 417 should be taken down if those roads are paid for. let the people who use the 429 and any expansions pay for those. They shouldn't be paid for by people going from downtown to 436.

I dont think they will ever take down the tolls on the 408 and 417. To widen the 408 alone between Tampa Ave and Hiawassee and put up a whole new toll plaza is about $73 million.

Also the tolls at the mainline plazas on the 429 are already at $1 and that thing is still not finish on the south end.

[shardoon]

To widen the 408 alone between Tampa Ave and Hiawassee and put up a whole new toll plaza is about $73 million.

hey, i know how they can save oney on the project. how about NOT put up a new toll plaza. how about eliminate the plaza completely. you can save money on electricity and wages for attendents

ok.... bad joke.... i know

[EngineerNole]

I don't understand people. I guess have been to enough OOCEA luncheons to know that the tolls are the reason we have these roads. Look at DOT funded roads, like I-4 for example. See how long it takes I-4 to improve? Look at the 408. Look how quickly they have begun to widen the 408. It seems like the interchange project between the 408 and I-4 has been done only on the 408 side thus far, though I may be wrong on that one. Point is, these roads don't have to wait years for funding. If they need improvements, the money is there and we should be thankful. No tolls=I-4. I'll stick with the tolls thanks.