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Cities /w Worst Traffic Flow


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I'm sure yo uare all right when you say___________ (fill in the blank) has the worst traffic. What worries me is that the concensus solution seems to be "Build more freeways". That would help; briefly. Induced demand and new growth would eat up that expanded capacity in no time. I've always thought it ironic that people move to the burbs and then almost immediately start complaining about traffic. I want to state this in no uncertain terms:

SUBURBS AND TRAFFIC CONGESTION ARE INEXTRICABLY LINKED!!!

It's the equivalant of moving to the city and complaining that there are too many peoople walking around. The number of lane miles of freeway that would need to be built in order to accomodate the unbelievable number of auto's on the road would literally bankrupt the country. It's time we realize that traffic jams are part of the suburban package. Move there understanding that bad traffic is part of what you are signing up for. If you don't like it, don't move there!!!

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And that's exactly what The Plan of Nashville says. Increasing capacity just increases the number of vehicles that will use the road. In fact, the Plan proposes almost completely removing the inner loop of the interstate around downtown and converting it to an urban boulevard.

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  • 2 weeks later...

The case of Orlando:

2nd fastest growing city in the country

One, count it, just One interstate highway (I-4)

all other expressways are expensive toll roads

no loop to bypass the city

nearly 1 million visitors per week!!!

I have been to Nashville, and although I do acknowledge problems that exist there, nothing can compare to the nightmare that is Orlando, Florida.

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I think what Nashville needs--or needed since it's too late to build--was probably an interstate loop with a radius of 8-10 miles from downtown.  The outer loop I think is probably too far out to really do too much for commuter congestion, although it might make a shortcut from Memphis to Knoxville or Chattanooga and reduce a lot of that truck traffic.

One thing I also noticed about Nashville when I lived there was it seemed to lack a really good non-freeway arterial system.

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8-10 miles would be just about impossible, considering the geography and development...too many obstacles...that's why they chose to build SR 840 so far out. Think about it...8-10 miles out...you would have to build through Brentwood (can you say "NIMBY"?), Antioch, across J Percy Priest Lake (diagonally), Hermitage, Old Hickory (while avoiding DuPont), Madison/Rivergate, Whites Creek and North Davidson hills (very rough landscape...look how long it took to complete Briley Pkwy), down to Bellevue and go around the Warner Parks and cut right into Brentwood (again, very rough landscape). I don't think it would solve as many problems as it would create. 840 was about as close as they could build...feasibly.

I agree with you on the secondary roads...we have some good "Pikes", but they are either poorly mantained or under-utilized.

And heckles...if you think Nashville sucks, come to Knoxville...they are working on I-40 (always have been always will...) AND Kingston Pike at the same time...this leaves only Middlebrook Pike to get through Knoxville's most populous and congested area.

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I think it's an almost universal law that traffic is worst at whatever city you currently live in. It's some kind of badge of courage that people wear on their sleeves.

Orlando is bad in spots but overall it's a breeze. Miami is gridlocked most of the day and night, but has more transit options. It's by no means the worst though.

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This is ridiculous: places like Nashville have some of the worst traffic in the country?? The clear winner for worst traffic in America is Los Angeles, followed by Atlanta. It once took me longer to drive across LA county than it did to fly across the country. No place is worse than that.

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This is ridiculous:  places like Nashville have some of the worst traffic in the country??  The clear winner for worst traffic in America is Los Angeles, followed by Atlanta.  It once took me longer to drive across LA county than it did to fly across the country.  No place is worse than that.

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I agree. I've lived in Nashville all my life, and traffic is really not bad...unless you are a moron and try to use I-24 or I-40 or I-440 during rush hour. There are heavily congested backroads and secondary roads that desperately need widening, but it still doesn't make traffic that big of a deal.

Atlanta has worse 8-9pm traffic than we have rush hour traffic.

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I don't find Orlando's traffic bad at all. I-4 stays thick with traffic, and it gets slow sometimes, but rarely have I ever been completely stopped on I-4. The surface streets are mostly a breeze, with a few exceptions. And the tollways are well under capacity, and they're evening widening the 408 (which is very unnecessary on the eastern side). My 4 mile commute to work takes about 9 minutes at rush hour (and that's only because of bad stoplight timing).

However, I was recently in Osceola Co. around 5PM, and that was quite bad, but I'm sure the omni-present road construction was part of the cause. The whole area suffers mainly due to lack of options (its hard to maintain a grid when there are lakes every few feet), but the roads that do exist are quite efficient, at least compared to lots of other places I've been.

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First post from a future Nashvillian (June 10th)

I used to think that the traffic mess in LA was over stated BUT...last Thanksgiving in LA it took over nine hours to get to and return from Disneyland from Santa Clarita (Just North of LA). When we stopped for fuel the attendant told us it was a 'normal' traffic day.

The kicker is I could have made the drive from Knoxville to Orlando in less time and used the airfare for U2 tickets.

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Atlanta has worse 8-9pm traffic than we have rush hour traffic.

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The interesting thing about Atlanta is that its traffic is worst in the suburbs. I used to drive 40 miles, each and every day to high school. I lived in Alpharetta (about 25-30 miles north of downtown) and went to school in College Park, 15 minutes on the south side of the city, near the airport. I was on the road from about 6:45-7:45 every morning, and 3:30-4:30 in the afternoon.

There were two routes from my side of town -- Ga 400, which is a freeway but operating grossly over capacity that far north, with two lanes in each direction; and Ga 141, which is a four-lane divided highway. Either way it was stop and go, the entire drive from my home to 285, the perimeter/loop/bypass/whatever. 285 through downtown was a breeze -- never any traffic unless there were accidents that early. Same thing on the ride home, I rarely had any problems until outside the perimeter, and then it's a nerve-wracking bumper-to-bumper ride the whole time.

Atlanta is simply too decentralized for its own good. People live in sprawling suburbs and commute all across the metro area to sprawling office parks in other suburbs. I grew up outside Boston, and my parents lived together in that area for 25 years, my mother basically her entire life. Boston had some major traffic issues pre-Big Dig but they were predictable. Outside 128 traffic flow is predictable and mostly smooth, despite the freeways being much lower-capacity than Atlanta's, and the suburbs being on the whole more densely populated.

I just don't understand how anyone can argue AGAINST increased density and mass-transit infrastructure as modes of improving people's lifestyles.

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I just don't understand how anyone can argue AGAINST increased density and mass-transit infrastructure as modes of improving people's lifestyles.

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I hear that. What do people expect when our main mode of transportation is a huge chunk of steel in which one or maybe two persons ride in everyday. The automobile is a huge waste-of space, fuel, and time.

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  • 4 weeks later...

For the mostpart this thread's been asleep for the better-part of a month. I am most-definitely going to wake this monster back up.

Because so many American cities have such horrible traffic I have to break it up into groups...

Los Angeles is hell, no doubt about it. The crazy drivers, confusing system of freeways and overall scale of the highway network is perpetually jammed or gridlocked. It is absolutely horrendous in most areas---no argument there.

Orlando, FL? What on earth? I went there about a month ago (yes I know---not main tourist season but I've been there during that time too) and the traffic was like a gift from God. The longest wait I had to endure in traffic was roughly 30 minutes at a crawl, not even a standstill. IMO that isn't bad at allllllll.

Virginia---yes the state---has the worst traffic (possibly tied with a N/E state). The Richmond area can be a pain, but is generally not so bad... Hampton Roads and particularly NOVA (northern Virginia by Washington DC) is HELL ON EARTH to drive in. It took me three hours to get from Tysons Corner to Fredericksburg which if typed into mapquest.com would likely give you some b/s number like "30 minutes". 30 minutes my @$$!!! It's totally insane. You would think that once you get off the main NOVA thoroughfares (i.e. 95, 495 etc) that things would get better... but they don't.

On to Hampton Roads (where I reside)... where to begin? There are almost 1.7 million people in this region but there seems to be 10 million cars. Someone explain that!? To cross the metro area by our one, single interstate highway (I-64, along with it's spurs 264, 464, 564, 664) from Williamsburg to the end of 64 in Chesapeake can take just a little over one hour... or five 1/2 hours. It is insane. What's worse is that there is zero mass transit whatsoever... oh yeah... the bus that stops once every 12.38 miles. (I'm trying to remain calm :angry: )... What's worse is that the secondary roads are even worse. Particularly the big intersections (i.e. Jefferson Avenue at Oyster Point road: named the most dangerous intersection in Virginia a few years back). It's just craziness.

AND BOSTON! Don't get me started. It may be getting better but it's still a nightmare between the hours of 5 am and 11 pm.

Wow, I'm done now.

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Rhode Island ranks 2nd in the country out of highest population density per sq. mile.. next to NJ..(according to several online polls and govt. sites.) Rush hour without accidents never has me driving being bumper to bumper for more than 10 minutes and with accidents..20-30 minutes tops.. I'm a spoiled whore i guess ;)

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Rhode Island ranks 2nd in the country out of highest population density per sq. mile.. next to NJ..(according to several online polls and govt. sites.)  Rush hour without accidents never has me driving being bumper to bumper for more than 10 minutes and with accidents..20-30 minutes tops.. I'm a spoiled whore i guess ;)

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Hampton Roads is the LEAST dense metro area in the United States (think Delaware + Rhode Island in area). I think because EVERYONE HAS to drive EVERYWHERE it creates the transit nightmare. oy vey. We need to steal some trains from the Northeast.

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i've driven all over this country,

I've driven LA

I've Driven DC

I've driven Atlanta

But the winner is,

Chicago!!!!!

anyone ever been stuck on the Ryan Expressway? doesnt matter what time of day. it sucks more than even where 75/85 converge in d-town Atlanta.

although LA sucks all around

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Hampton Roads is the LEAST dense metro area in the United States (think Delaware + Rhode Island in area).  I think because EVERYONE HAS to drive EVERYWHERE it creates the transit nightmare.  oy vey.  We need to steal some trains from the Northeast.

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Traffic in Toronto and Vancouver is far worse than any American city I've been to (and I've been to a lot). This is generally positive though, as it encourages people to live downtown where they can walk to all their daily needs, or to take the train into the city instead of driving if they live in the suburbs. Dense nodes of highrises are clustered around dozens of subway/Skytrain stops in both cities.

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I haven't been around the country but Atlanta and DC are the worst i've ever seen. On our way down to Atlanta we were stuck in a backup downtown on 85 and it was 12 in the morning! It was riducluous but once traffic started moving again everything was smooth. DC was a nightmare and bascilly was a crawl from the springfield interchange down to Fredreicksburg. As for around here Charlotte is horrible. With all the construction on 85 in Concord and Salisbury not to mention the overcrownded nightmare called I-77.

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