Hartford I-84 Viaduct Study

[MadVlad]

... which sucks since I already have plans. The location is:

Greater Hartford Transit District • Multipurpose Room

One Union Place

Hartford, CT

[The Voice of Reason]

... which sucks since I already have plans. The location is:

Greater Hartford Transit District • Multipurpose Room

One Union Place

Hartford, CT

I am going to try and get there, but you can be sure Bill M will be there.

[Bill Mocarsky]

I am doing my best to go.

btw, there is one more after this near the end of October.

For those that are not up to date, the proposed shifting of the rail and hence the relocation/expansion of the station appears to be a big game changer at this time.

[The Voice of Reason]

I am doing my best to go.

btw, there is one more after this near the end of October.

For those that are not up to date, the proposed shifting of the rail and hence the relocation/expansion of the station appears to be a big game changer at this time.

I am 99% sure you will see me tomorrow Bill.

I am sure you had your hand in the process quite a bit since I last saw you. looking forward to the dialogue...

and really the work groups

[The Voice of Reason]

got home from this fine event about an hour ago.

BOY oh Boy are you guys gonna love this.....

so, the results of all the hard work is pretty much done, but well, what actually happens is still up to the DOT and all kinds of other things.

the first thing is that there IS and option that would cost about the same as just replacing what is there now. AND... is far and a way better than what we got now.

the rail line can be moved and amtrak is apparently supportive because it would save them the cost of re-building the rail viaduct. its honestly amazing when forces align to make things make sense.

there are 15-20 acres of developable land right next to bushnel park and union station.

ill find and attach photos.

just know this!!!

moved train line, new train station, new development, no train tracks or anything interfering with the park. sexy renders and stuff.

[HartfordTycoon]

got home from this fine event about an hour ago.

BOY oh Boy are you guys gonna love this.....

so, the results of all the hard work is pretty much done, but well, what actually happens is still up to the DOT and all kinds of other things.

the first thing is that there IS and option that would cost about the same as just replacing what is there now. AND... is far and a way better than what we got now.

the rail line can be moved and amtrak is apparently supportive because it would save them the cost of re-building the rail viaduct. its honestly amazing when forces align to make things make sense.

there are 15-20 acres of developable land right next to bushnel park and union station.

ill find and attach photos.

just know this!!!

moved train line, new train station, new development, no train tracks or anything interfering with the park. sexy renders and stuff.

Wow, sounds like big things are going to happen. What is going to happen with Union Station if they build a new one?

[MadVlad]

Listen, all I have to say is whatever development you DO create around this, it better be heavily residential laden...

[The Voice of Reason]

I swear there are images I will try and get up later on..

but the commission is not charged with determining the makeup of any kind of development or anything like that. they just said that the acreage is capabe of sustaining 1.2 million SF or whaatever, or more and they drew 15 story buildings that look like housing, but that does not mean thats what will be built, its just conceptual. they just were trying to figure out what transportation plan had the best effects on the fabric of the city and connecting Asylum hill etc... back to the city.

sooo

the train station is not large enough to handle the high speed rail and commuter line and the other high speed rail and.... be the main bus terminal and....the busway(BOOOOO)

the old station would surely end up being used to support more retail type items. maybe cut the main hall into several more resturants. but it would not be torn down you can count on that.

[Bill Mocarsky]

Wow, sounds like big things are going to happen. What is going to happen with Union Station if they build a new one?

sooo

the train station is not large enough to handle the high speed rail and commuter line and the other high speed rail and.... be the main bus terminal and....the busway(BOOOOO)

the old station would surely end up being used to support more retail type items. maybe cut the main hall into several more resturants. but it would not be torn down you can count on that.

I believe the new station would be an annex dedicated to rail. It would span the highway since the tracks will be on the other side of the highway. The tracks would also be below Asylum Street. The historic Union Place building would still accomodate the bus station.

[Bill Mocarsky]

I swear there are images I will try and get up later on..

but the commission is not charged with determining the makeup of any kind of development or anything like that. they just said that the acreage is capabe of sustaining 1.2 million SF or whaatever, or more and they drew 15 story buildings that look like housing, but that does not mean thats what will be built, its just conceptual. they just were trying to figure out what transportation plan had the best effects on the fabric of the city and connecting Asylum hill etc... back to the city.

I just heard that the draft report (that includes all the stuff VOR is talking about) is posted on the site http://www.crcog.org/viaduct.html

[HartfordTycoon]

I really like what I see in the report. It's very encouraging. It would be awesome to have some air rights projects developed over the highway on that corner of Asylum and that train station annex is pretty awesome.

[The Voice of Reason]

The best way to get you guys the pictures is to open this PDF on the CRCOG web site. they gave out these glossy books containing the same info at the meeting.

http://www.crcog.org/publications/TransportationDocs/Viaduct/20101001DraftReport.pdf

page 4 has a nice before and after view. the after being the tunnel option, but thats not likely due to cost.

page 40 shows the consensus favorite due to cost and functional improvements. it nearly makes my nipples hard.

page 48 shows some interesting comparisons for size of developable land.

the financial side is kind of fascinating. if the newly available downtown land were developed at their conservative 1-1.5 million SF, it would generate 12-18 million in annual tax revenue. I can only assume that a higher density or even just slightly taller redevelopment were to happen, Hartford could easily double that. being that this would abut the high speed rail, the NHHS line and other multimodal transport options, I can only assume that very high density is possible.

the worst fault in this document that I can see is that I am in 3 of the pictures in this thing, and on a day that I didn't shave

this should teach you all to make sure you are presentable when going to one of these events

what is funny to me is that in the 2 pics on the front cover, then mayor, Eddie Perez,was sitting at my table, but just off camera. I mentioned that to one of the consultant and it was not intentional that he was cut out, but it is kind or ironic.

[The Voice of Reason]

sorry bill, didnt see your link.

[Bill Mocarsky]

http://www.crcog.org/publications/TransportationDocs/Viaduct/20101001DraftReport.pdf

page 4 has a nice before and after view. the after being the tunnel option, but thats not likely due to cost.

page 40 shows the consensus favorite due to cost and functional improvements. it nearly makes my nipples hard.

The alternatiiive 2/3 renderings look like a college quad.

UCONN @ Hartford?

[MadVlad]

A nice column via Tom Condon

[The Voice of Reason]

this is tonight at 4:30, then at 530 the presentation begins.

wish I could make the final one I am on vacation starting tomorrow, so cant stick around after work.

i like how the paper is harrolding this as some kind of final decision, and the reccomendations are actually going to happen. it really is just a reccomendation, and the DOT can do whatever they want when it comes down to it.

noticed bill mentioned in the paper.

kind of cool since if this happens I will also always feel as though I had an influence on this process.

I have enjoyed sharing maps will Bill and trying to untangle a bowl of spagetti

I remember talking about figuring out how to not cross the train tracks but it turned out that just moving the tracks to the side was the simple answer.

the evolution of this entire process has been great.

[HartfordTycoon]

It's great to see this. This was not one of my priority issues but Bill M and VOR really did get involved in this and that is wonderful to see happening. I really am very happy with the plan that is out there now and if DOT goes in that direction it will really open up a world of possibilities.

[MadVlad]

It looks like lowering the highway to ground level is THE plan. I'd so much rather it be below ground, but this is better than what we have. I'm not sure how the roads will work out, but I guess we'll find out, probably when I'm 60....

[Bill Mocarsky]

It looks like lowering the highway to ground level is THE plan. I'd so much rather it be below ground, but this is better than what we have. I'm not sure how the roads will work out, but I guess we'll find out, probably when I'm 60....

There are some that would prefer the tunnel, but will "settle" with the

grade level highway. My opinion is that the tunnel concept wouldn't offer

enough over the grade level highway, even if the difference in cost was

marginal. You will still have to deal with the rail line (which would be

at grade level, not in the tunnel)if you wanted to do anything meaningful

there.

I believe the grade level alignment (west of Broad Street) will be less conspicuous than many think.

From 3 sides, it will appear as a depressed highway.

[MadVlad]

I'm in the settle camp. I'm still optimistic about the results, but it was hard for me to envision how it will flesh out even with the documents.

[Theophrastus Bombastus]

They should just COMPLETELY do away the whole Sisson Avenue exit and on-ramp structure (this was supposed to be the interchange to the 291/491 beltway that got 1/4 done). You can see how much real estate that would free up. There are plenty of other access points closeby.

http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&geocode=&q=06183&sll=37.0625,-95.677068&sspn=51.177128,78.837891&ie=UTF8&hq=&hnear=Hartford,+Connecticut+06183&ll=41.758844,-72.69973&spn=0.011877,0.02738&z=16

[The Voice of Reason]

They should just COMPLETELY do away the whole Sisson Avenue exit and on-ramp structure (this was supposed to be the interchange to the 291/491 beltway that got 1/4 done). You can see how much real estate that would free up. There are plenty of other access points closeby.

http://maps.google.c...77,0.02738&z=16

they are redesigning that big time no matter what, so you will see massive improvement there and tons of reclaimed land for development will result.

they need to keep it though because its a very popular exit for state employees and Aetna apparently. they did a study. I am thinking though that a better exit would also prove more attractive option to access the state and Aetna offices (an early exit) to spread the buden away from sigourney. apparently sigourney is not able to handle demand.

who knows

[beash19]

They should just COMPLETELY do away the whole Sisson Avenue exit and on-ramp structure (this was supposed to be the interchange to the 291/491 beltway that got 1/4 done). You can see how much real estate that would free up. There are plenty of other access points closeby.

http://maps.google.c...77,0.02738&z=16

I dont know how necessary the Sisson Ave exit really is. But it seems like there is enough room just south of that exit to add an exit right onto Park Street. They could get rid of that hideous Park Plaza Shopping Center at the same time.

Or better yet, why not make Sigourney accessible from I84E just as it is from 84W? There doesnt look to be anything of importance in the way to make that happen.

[Hiramicus]

Does anyone have a summary of the proposed exit changes with any of the proposed build-out scenarios? It seems like if they could redeisgn some of the long exit ramps and left entrances and bottlenecks caused at the 91 intersection this could greatly reduce congestion in hartford

[The Voice of Reason]

Does anyone have a summary of the proposed exit changes with any of the proposed build-out scenarios? It seems like if they could redeisgn some of the long exit ramps and left entrances and bottlenecks caused at the 91 intersection this could greatly reduce congestion in hartford

Hiram, the exits are not designed, honestly nothing is. the whole study was to propose a concept, and final details would be ironed out in the end by DOT people, so well first they would choose a concept, then start to figure out how they would do that concept and that would create the final exit plans and stuff. also, the whole thing does not address the I-91 I 84 interchange at all, just the viaduct part. between asylum and sisson