PROPOSED: DC-NYC-HART-BOS High Speed Rail

[HartfordTycoon]

This is certainly news to me and I am pretty excited about the implications. If Amtrak is planning their own high speed rail line along this East-West Corridor does that mean that Hartford could have two intersecting high speed lines going through it? This is kinda jaw dropping. I guess this would mean that even if the busway is built there is still chance for greatly improved rail service from Waterbury through Hartford in some configuration. Wow! Please let this happen in addition to the NHHS line. This also means we would have a high speed connection to Boston that would not have to go north to Springfield first.

The high-speed line would have four "hub" stops: Boston, New York, Philadelphia, and Washington. "Super Express" trains would stop only in those cities and make the 426-mile trip between Boston and Washington in 3 hours and 23 minutes (compared to the current 8 hours on Amtrak's Northeast Regional trains or 6 hours and 37 minutes on Acela Express).

Additional stops would be made by "express" high-speed trains in Baltimore; Wilmington; Newark, N.J.; and Hartford, and other high-speed trains would make additional stops, including Philadelphia International Airport.

It's unclear how and whether the plan would be related to a proposed commuter rail line between Springfield and New Haven.

Providence Journal

Amtrak’s 30-year vision for faster-than-Acela rail service between Boston and Washington includes a line that would get passengers from Boston to New York in less than an hour and a half, but the new route would bypass Providence, going through a proposed station in Woonsocket instead.

Unveiling its $117-billion plan in Philadelphia on Tuesday, Amtrak “starts the conversation” about how to serve the 20 million more people expected to be living between New York and Boston by the year 2040, said Marc Magliari, an Amtrak spokesman in Washington. The report predicts the current system will have reached capacity by 2030 and be overwhelmed.

Although the route has not been set and is still in the early stages of discussion, one alignment being discussed would start in New York City and trace a route through New Rochelle and the airport in White Plains, N.Y., Danbury, Waterbury and Hartford in Connecticut, Woonsocket, a station at Route 28 near Boston and then Boston.

I'm finding it hilarious to watch the Providence guys heads explode over being left out of this next gen plan. Some of the comments come from former regulars here on UP!

Greater City Providence

[The Voice of Reason]

OK

WOW

and um, OK

so this is a competitive bid to the state by state method. I like it. I like that Amtrek is not giving up, and I like that Hartford would be involved.

if this were to happen, Hartford would be the point of intersection between this system, and the Montreal/burlington/springfield/hartford/new haven high speed train.

if that were the case, Hartford could easily become one of the more important stops on this system.

add in the commuter rail, and this would be a network with impressive reach all with union station at the center

[RLucas83]

I'm finding it hilarious to watch the Providence guys heads explode over being left out of this next gen plan. Some of the comments come from former regulars here on UP!

Greater City Providence

Actually if you went to Amtrak.com and read the reports you would see the reason Providence was bypassed is because additional Acela service combined with commuter rail will put the rail traffic in the area at capacity. Hourly service (15 trains daily) on the current Acela route is proposed for the 2020-2030 timeframe.

In addition, the fastest train will not stop at Hartford and Hartford will have Acela-type service. Both reports are available on Amtrak.com

It will be a huge boost to Hartford if completed, but it is not a diss to Providence when the station will be serving nearly 100 trains per day (more if they extend service to Providence/Worcester to connect to the new line)

[HartfordTycoon]

Actually if you went to Amtrak.com and read the reports you would see the reason Providence was bypassed is because additional Acela service combined with commuter rail will put the rail traffic in the area at capacity. Hourly service (15 trains daily) on the current Acela route is proposed for the 2020-2030 timeframe.

In addition, the fastest train will not stop at Hartford and Hartford will have Acela-type service. Both reports are available on Amtrak.com

It will be a huge boost to Hartford if completed, but it is not a diss to Providence when the station will be serving nearly 100 trains per day (more if they extend service to Providence/Worcester to connect to the new line)

That was just a little joke. I did happen to see your comment on Projo about not wanting them to stop here though, unless that was a different RLucas. I know it's not a knock on PVD. This is the best route they could come up with for now based on all of the factors that they have to take into account. However this will benefit us tremendously and I'm very excited about the possibility of having two high speed rail lines converging on Hartford!

This is the actual service as proposed.

[RLucas83]

That was just a little joke. I did happen to see your comment on Projo about not wanting them to stop here though, unless that was a different RLucas. I know it's not a knock on PVD. This is the best route they could come up with for now based on all of the factors that they have to take into account. However this will benefit us tremendously and I'm very excited about the possibility of having two high speed rail lines converging on Hartford!

I dont know if Id call the New Haven Springfield line "high speed", even once they do electrify it, I dont think it will amount to anything more than regional service.

I am actually a little excited about this allignment because much to my surprise, my old home town of Woonsocket is proposed for a station (imagine my shock when I saw that). I recommend reading both the high speed rail plan and northeast corridor master plan on amtrak's website, there some good info in there. What is interested is how many various restrictions amtrak has in the places where they dont own the tracks.

What is interesting to see is the super express, the train that will pass through, but not stop at Hartford, though Hartford isnt the only decent sized city being skipped over, I noticed both Baltimore and Newark get passed as well. I am highly skeptical of the times they show but will be nice if they can make it happen. This essentially becomes Hartford's Acela Express service.

The 2nd report, the northeast Corridor master plan might have some good reading to those interested. They identify all of the capacity enhancing projects proposed in the NE, many of which are in CT (CT being the biggest rail bottleneck for the Acela today).

[HartfordTycoon]

I dont know if Id call the New Haven Springfield line "high speed", even once they do electrify it, I dont think it will amount to anything more than regional service.

I am actually a little excited about this allignment because much to my surprise, my old home town of Woonsocket is proposed for a station (imagine my shock when I saw that). I recommend reading both the high speed rail plan and northeast corridor master plan on amtrak's website, there some good info in there. What is interested is how many various restrictions amtrak has in the places where they dont own the tracks.

What is interesting to see is the super express, the train that will pass through, but not stop at Hartford, though Hartford isnt the only decent sized city being skipped over, I noticed both Baltimore and Newark get passed as well. I am highly skeptical of the times they show but will be nice if they can make it happen. This essentially becomes Hartford's Acela Express service.

The 2nd report, the northeast Corridor master plan might have some good reading to those interested. They identify all of the capacity enhancing projects proposed in the NE, many of which are in CT (CT being the biggest rail bottleneck for the Acela today).

The New Haven Hartford Springfield line is slated for high speed Acela type service as well as slower intercity commuter type service. It will be part a leg connecting Montreal to NYC as it is currently planned. That is why Vermont also is getting federal funds along that corridor.

Maybe we need to stop the anti busway talk and just push for this to happen in addition to it? What do you guys think? I really don't care if they build the busway if we can still get this East West high speed service as well. What will really be awesome is if they can put a stop at UConn for intercity type service with this plan.

[RLucas83]

The New Haven Hartford Springfield line is slated for high speed Acela type service as well as slower intercity commuter type service. It will be part a leg connecting Montreal to NYC as it is currently planned. That is why Vermont also is getting federal funds along that corridor.

Maybe we need to stop the anti busway talk and just push for this to happen in addition to it? What do you guys think? I really don't care if they build the busway if we can still get this East West high speed service as well. What will really be awesome is if they can put a stop at UConn for intercity type service with this plan.

They dont know the NYC-Montreal via Hartford in their master plan, which shows the most comprehensive Amtrak plan I have seen to date (they even include an additional siding and station at the new PVD Airport station, which until now has only been speculated)

With this project being at a minimum 30 years away, I would keep plugging away at any transportation project, that is the only way the Northeast is going to regain their economic power while cities like Atlanta will suffer from gridlocked SUVs because they failed to plan ahead.

[HartfordTycoon]

They dont know the NYC-Montreal via Hartford in their master plan, which shows the most comprehensive Amtrak plan I have seen to date (they even include an additional siding and station at the new PVD Airport station, which until now has only been speculated)

With this project being at a minimum 30 years away, I would keep plugging away at any transportation project, that is the only way the Northeast is going to regain their economic power while cities like Atlanta will suffer from gridlocked SUVs because they failed to plan ahead.

It's not Amtrak planning it. This is part of the White House's High Speed Rail initiative. While the map only shows New Haven-Springfield segment as high speed the planning we are doing in CT is clearly for High Speed rail in the corridor going through Vermont into Canada. This is definitely the direction we need to be moving in as a region and nation though.

Rutland (Vt.) Herald

HARTFORD, Conn. — Transportation officials are working to keep plans on track for high-speed trains running through Connecticut, western Massachusetts and Vermont.

The three states have received a total of $160 million in federal economic stimulus money for track improvements to link high-speed trains from New York City to New Haven, Conn., and north to Hartford, Conn., Springfield, Mass., Vermont and Montreal.

[beerbeer]

If the Washington Boston high speed line goes though Hartford, then the Montreal Line should go through Hartford as well. This would give fast access to NYC and south, and the train change to Boston would be a very quick as well.

[The Voice of Reason]

HT

This is likely worth of its own thread.

in fact I think our 3 transportation corridores need their own threads.

1: Amtrack high speed rail

2: NHHS Line / Us federal high speed rail program

3: Busway/Waterbury rail line

however...... to maintain conversation.

I really really hope this happens. of course for me I still think the most important thing is the commuter rail, and a waterbury to hartford commuter rail.

as much as high speed rail is critical to the future, Hartford is the center of a potentially large urban area. if Hartford is placed as the Hub of a transportation network including Waterbury, Springfield, and new haven, the city itself would gain influence, and surely attract economic growth and ultimately prosperity.

with hartford as the center of a greater urban area, the high speed connections will make that much more sense. they will not make it the center, they will just make stopping the train here make sense.

Honestly. if we do build our smaller local networks, and we do connect to montreal, dont you think it would only be a matter of time before trains stopped in hartford along both high speed networks in order to transfer? moston to montreal, Washington DC to montreal.

my priorities for support currently include

1: NHHS (its so close) and its existance bodes well for #4

2: Waterbury Hartford commuter (this line would make the NHHS line easily twice as valuable and massively increase ridership/solve highway congestion)

3: Amtrak high speed rail. because it makes hartford more nationally relevent (just google or look into the benefits lyon experienced after the TGV chose it as a stop in france)

4: Bidens high speed network. this is bottom dollar for me since I am pretty sure NHHS is happening, so this will likely someday happen as well.

-10: busway- die busway die!!!!!!!

and finally, the last critical thing, is making sure the NHHS rail goes all the way to the terminals in Bradley. no damn stop and board a bus crap

[MadVlad]

Build it all.

[HartfordTycoon]

Hopefully Amtrak can score some federal funds at some point to really start working on this proposed next gen line. This really is the biggest deal of all of the proposed rail lines that will hopefully eventually pass through Hartford.

Boston Globe

One reason the Northeast has been complacent is that Amtrak already offers a somewhat upgraded service, Acela, between Boston and Washington. But the Acela route isn’t a long-term high-speed rail solution, especially the section in New England. It’s too curvy, and it shares its tracks with too many commuter and freight railroads. The existing Northeast Corridor route will always be an important transit artery, but it’s unlikely a service at bullet-train speeds will ever run on its tracks.

Recognizing this, Amtrak released a plan last year that suggested a new, dedicated route from Boston to Washington that would cost $117 billion and reduce travel time to New York to a mere 83 minutes. From Boston, the route would skip Providence and pass through Hartford instead. One might quibble with some details, but the Amtrak plan is the credible starting point for a serious discussion of routes that needs to begin now.

[The Voice of Reason]

I went on the Amtrak web site to learn more about this and honestly I never really end up reading what I am looking for.

To me this seems like such a far off dream that its hard to really focus on it.

If you think of 2040, its 29 years away and the city, the state, the country will be so different by then Its hard to imagine.

many of the rail projects currently on the books will not only be built, but will have been operational for over a decade... so it stands to reason that the successful ones, or the politically supported ones will have been expanded even..

I 84- will have been re routed thru Hartford for over 10 years, who knows, maybe 91 will be re routed too?

the park river might be unearthed, commuer rail will be operational between Springfield and New haven, with the possibility of additional spurs...

the bus way will be built and eventually torn down to extend more commuter rail to Waterbury.

Acela will be improved along the coast

Bradley will have a handful of international flights (due to the rail connection)

many more people will have moved into downtown Hartford, and many more businesses will have moved in and out (with maybe some moving back.. its hard to guess)

Based on current trends, the Hartford MSA will be close to 1.6 Million and downtown will be supporting easily 3000+ more apartments (adding 100 per year seems quite possible although I suspect after a certain point it would be closer to 200+ per year, so 5,000)

Springfield will almost certainly be part of our CSA(2.5M), and I suspect downtown Springfield will be one of the better places to live in the area as it has retained much of its historic fabric, and as a residential downtown would be very attractive with some serious cleaning and painting and general sprucing up of things. think about a 3 minute walk to the train, a 10 minute train ride, maybe 15, and your downtown hartford (where the jobs are) and a 5-10 minute walk to your office.

I will be old

I want super highspeed rail thru Hartford, I really do, but I also think it will be a little more like the European versions, the TGV that stops outside of Avignon, and has no interaction with the slower train system. It is essentially an airport feel.

In Hartford, our train stop may well be in Bloomfield, and its not likely to interact with our train station or existing tracks.... I would love it to, but in order to maintain speed they have to operate on seperate right of way.

I would really really love New england to get behind this proposal, and would also love to see some federal funding start the alignment review at least.

it would be awesome to have American back in the cutting edge of rail travel.

[MadVlad]

A high speed rail stop in Bloomfield is pointless, might as well skip us altogether...

[beerbeer]

No problem with a Bloomfield stop. The airport is in Windsor Locks.

In fact, if the Griffin line ran from Union Station to Bradley. It would make perfect sense to put an Amtrak stop at it's intersection of the Griffin line connecting all three dots.

[The Voice of Reason]

No problem with a Bloomfield stop. The airport is in Windsor Locks.

In fact, if the Griffin line ran from Union Station to Bradley. It would make perfect sense to put an Amtrak stop at it's intersection of the Griffin line connecting all three dots.

hey that might work, but in reality it could be anywhere is what I am saying.

in France, the TGV is a super fast train and in some cities it goes all the way to the main downtown station, but in others it is unable to get to that main station at any good speed, so it is placed where ever the faster straight track comes closest to the city. if you look at my earlier example Avignon France on google maps, its really not in the city,

While the route that they give seems to include the Hartford-Waterbury- Danbury rail line, I have a hard time seeing how it would work with all the downtown areas this would pass thru. Do I think these are problems that can be pushed thru? yes, but it is for sure contrary to the seeminly proposed concept.

the point is 200KPH+ trains. and from Hartford to Waterbury is a pretty darn populated area. so getting a train up to 200KPG would be topugh without digging some trenches or seperating the lines from the downtowns

[HartfordTycoon]

I know that this plan is like 20 to 30 years away from being fully implemented but its still very nice to see that we are included in these plans. From the looks of this we are in line to actually have 220 mph service that will connect Hartford to Boston and NYC and will actually service Hartford not just pass through it.

Railway Age

Engel said the active pursuit of private financing is one of several actions taken by Amtrak to move forward its next-generation high-speed railvision plan since it was announced last September. Another key action is the development of a stair-step approach outlining a clear, structured, and coordinated path to achieve 220 mph service on exclusive operational segments first between Philadelphia and New York, then New York to Washington, followed by New York to Hartford and, finally, Hartford to Boston.

[nor'easter]

I know that this plan is like 20 to 30 years away from being fully implemented but its still very nice to see that we are included in these plans. From the looks of this we are in line to actually have 220 mph service that will connect Hartford to Boston and NYC and will actually service Hartford not just pass through it.

Railway Age

Engel said the active pursuit of private financing is one of several actions taken by Amtrak to move forward its next-generation high-speed railvision plan since it was announced last September. Another key action is the development of a stair-step approach outlining a clear, structured, and coordinated path to achieve 220 mph service on exclusive operational segments first between Philadelphia and New York, then New York to Washington, followed by New York to Hartford and, finally, Hartford to Boston.

Yes, 20 or 30 years. too bad we won't have commuter rail service between hartford and new haven for the next 100 years. but why bother with that when we will have a bus route between new britain and hartford and we already have a commuter service rail between new london and new haven. 6 rides, 3 cars each ride, each day each way and they only need one (1) car each ride for all the commuters they get. i know.

Len Fasano used to send me emails, telling me all the things he is doing for me. But when I emailed him back asking where was he when they tore up the second track between New haven and Hartford, he stopped emailing. governor malloik is the perfect fool to run the dysfunctional state show. his single minded "so what if no one wants it, it will create jobs" mentality about the bus line is shocking. I doubt he could boil water. he still thinks stamford's success had nothing to do with proximity to nyc. The City that Works. When is he going to unleash his know how and do the same for Hartford. Caution: breath holding can be hazardess to your health. I know I am b$tchinmg and I know the high speed amtrak service is not a bad thing. i'm done talkin'. thanks for puttin' up with me.

[HartfordTycoon]

Yes, 20 or 30 years. too bad we won't have commuter rail service between hartford and new haven for the next 100 years. but why bother with that when we will have a bus route between new britain and hartford and we already have a commuter service rail between new london and new haven. 6 rides, 3 cars each ride, each day each way and they only need one (1) car each ride for all the commuters they get. i know.

Len Fasano used to send me emails, telling me all the things he is doing for me. But when I emailed him back asking where was he when they tore up the second track between New haven and Hartford, he stopped emailing. governor malloik is the perfect fool to run the dysfunctional state show. his single minded "so what if no one wants it, it will create jobs" mentality about the bus line is shocking. I doubt he could boil water. he still thinks stamford's success had nothing to do with proximity to nyc. The City that Works. When is he going to unleash his know how and do the same for Hartford. Caution: breath holding can be hazardess to your health. I know I am b$tchinmg and I know the high speed amtrak service is not a bad thing. i'm done talkin'. thanks for puttin' up with me.

I certainly am more optimistic that the New Haven-Hartford-Springfield rail line will be implemented within the next couple of years as opposed to the next hundred. We'll see though....

Oh yeah, Welcome to UP Hartford!

[HartfordTycoon]

http://articles.phil...theast-corridor

Amtrak is still planning to bring true, 220 mph high speed rail right through Hartford by 2040. I know it's a long way away, but it's still really good news. If our country wasn't opposed to investing in public infrastructure we wouldn't have this problem but that's what we are dealing with. The plan will connect NYC to Boston and DC making a NY to Boston or NY to DC trip in about 90 minutes. This plan would also connect Danbury and Waterbury to Hartford which would also be a huge bonus for CT.

The report also mentions connecting to local airports. I didn't see Bradley mentioned but we have almost 30 years to figure out how to work that in there. The new map is also saying it would run from Hartford to Providence when the original plan released in 2010 said it would be Woonsocket. I'm not sure if they really changed it to appease the folks in Providence or if they are simply still running it to Woonsocket and calling it Providence betting not too many people will really notice. Judging by the map it still looks like it'll go through Woonsocket though.

Here's the pdf from Amtraks website: http://www.amtrak.co...st-Corridor.pdf

[The Voice of Reason]

I just got back from a vacation in Europe and as usual took the train everywhere...

funny story was while on the plane home I talked to a Belgian girl who couldnt understand why we dont have trains...

to be frank I could not explain it to her. I know most of the reasons, but there are no real reasons why we couldnt have made of for our failing yet. I ultimately settled on a lack of political will...

I would be thrilled with this AMTRAK plan, but the ONLY way this happens is if somehow Obama wins in 2012 (Biden is the driver for rail projects across the nation it seems)

and even then there would be doubt as this would need top level support into id say 2020 at the least before it would be "politically painful to eliminate" and for some reason if Obama does win a 2nd term, I dont see Biden even running in 2016 let alone winning.

if Rupublicans (on a political level) could support rail in the US I would be very happy. I understand why they oppose rail, its easy to do, they seem like extremely expensive projects that "no one will use".

[Bill Mocarsky]

Here's the pdf from Amtraks website: http://www.amtrak.co...st-Corridor.pdf

Didn't realize that there is a bit on Hartford in this PDF.

The prospect of this should help further justify the straighening of the rail line through downtown. The current alignment probably won't conform very well.

[The Voice of Reason]

Yeah, they do a nice micro study of both Hartford and baltimore in there.

I also like that they are talking about the NH-H-S commuter rail as a feeder system for this project. and it should also be noted that even though this master project is intended for 2040 completion, some segments were 2030 completion and sooner.

based on the preliminary study, they would be putting in a 4 platform station in Hartford, that I think would be above grade or at grade, but not underground.

I wonder how much this would change with the track realignment proposed by the Hub of Hartford project? That eliminated above grade as a possibility, and only leaves at grade or really just in the cut and cover trench through asylum hill.

Part of the cool thing here is that Hartford would not only be a "major station" on the track as they call it and therefore receive express train service as well as "local" service, but it could also potentially be where riders eventually switch trains to continue north on the High Speed connection between NYC and Montreal as created by the extended NH-H-S Commuter rail. So Hartford would be 1 hour from Boston, 55 Minutes to NYC, 2-2.5 hours to Montreal and 2 Hours to Baltimore or DC. Not a bad place to be located when you concider the ammount of business being done amongst these urban areas.

[HartfordTycoon]

Yeah, they do a nice micro study of both Hartford and baltimore in there.

I also like that they are talking about the NH-H-S commuter rail as a feeder system for this project. and it should also be noted that even though this master project is intended for 2040 completion, some segments were 2030 completion and sooner.

based on the preliminary study, they would be putting in a 4 platform station in Hartford, that I think would be above grade or at grade, but not underground.

I wonder how much this would change with the track realignment proposed by the Hub of Hartford project? That eliminated above grade as a possibility, and only leaves at grade or really just in the cut and cover trench through asylum hill.

Part of the cool thing here is that Hartford would not only be a "major station" on the track as they call it and therefore receive express train service as well as "local" service, but it could also potentially be where riders eventually switch trains to continue north on the High Speed connection between NYC and Montreal as created by the extended NH-H-S Commuter rail. So Hartford would be 1 hour from Boston, 55 Minutes to NYC, 2-2.5 hours to Montreal and 2 Hours to Baltimore or DC. Not a bad place to be located when you concider the ammount of business being done amongst these urban areas.

It would be a huge game changer for Hartford to be at the center of such an expansive transit network. They really need to make sure that the NHHS system does get extended up through Montreal.

[The Voice of Reason]

If we dont get it, NY to Albany will get it, and I think we might be the more compelling argument if you consider Burlington and Springfield as additional stops, plus the improvements intended through the Amtrack plan, Existing Acela etc..