SouthPark Mall

[NCMike1981]

^I'm sure Charlotte has got to be next on their list if they are going to open a 3rd store in NC....they already have the Triangle and Triad covered, and I can't really imagine them expanding to Asheville, Wilmington, or Fayetteville before Charlotte...come to think of it I can't imagine H&M in Fayetteville.....ever LOL

[DOLCE&GABBANA]

^I'm sure Charlotte has got to be next on their list if they are going to open a 3rd store in NC....they already have the Triangle and Triad covered, and I can't really imagine them expanding to Asheville, Wilmington, or Fayetteville before Charlotte...come to think of it I can't imagine H&M in Fayetteville.....ever LOL

What about greensboro you think they will drive to Winston Salem to travel to that Store ?

[NCMike1981]

^Maybe at some point if H&M continues in expansion mode....but then again they'd probably expand to Durham before Greensboro....seems like major higher end chains in the Triangle tend to put a store in Raleigh at Crabtree (occasionally Triangle Town Center thanks to Saks being there) and a Durham store at Southpoint....I can't really see a Greensboro store at Four Seasons thanks to it's recent issues but perhaps at Friendly Center....but once again I can't imagine them adding to their Triangle and Triad prescence (and I'd be suprised if they did that anytime soon) without first expanding into Charlotte...

Edited September 18, 2011 by NCMike1981

[101_ce]

^Maybe at some point if H&M continues in expansion mode....but then again they'd probably expand to Durham before Greensboro....seems like major higher end chains in the Triangle tend to put a store in Raleigh at Crabtree (occasionally Triangle Town Center thanks to Saks being there) and a Durham store at Southpoint....I can't really see a Greensboro store at Four Seasons thanks to it's recent issues but perhaps at Friendly Center....but once again I can't imagine them adding to their Triangle and Triad prescence (and I'd be suprised if they did that anytime soon) without first expanding into Charlotte...

I can easily see H&M opening at Northlake soon, but not at SouthPark.

[Temeteron]

Went in SP today. Finish Line has closed---apparently sports athletic stores don't do well at SP (Champs and Foot Locker also closed 2 years ago). Also, The space that was formerly the Gift shop (which was formerly Carlyle & Co.) has moved to where Brooks Brothers was. Hopefully this means good news!

[101_ce]

Went in SP today. Finish Line has closed---apparently sports athletic stores don't do well at SP (Champs and Foot Locker also closed 2 years ago). Also, The space that was formerly the Gift shop (which was formerly Carlyle & Co.) has moved to where Brooks Brothers was. Hopefully this means good news!

Gilly Hicks would be a major thing for Charlotte since Atlanta doesn't even have one yet. They should already, but apparently Lenox's shrink would be too high for them to consider to open there, and Mall of Georgia is really just to far from Atlanta, but who knows. The Finish Line space would be a perfect fit (good location, near A&F, and perfect size). If the Apple expansion does happen, then I would assume Sur La Table would move. But where? The only place I could think of is to the old Brooks Brothers store, which is not in a very good location. Hopefully one day Tommy Bahama will move somewhere and then they can get two new boutiques (maybe Chanel or Ferragamo, etc.) or something. The problem is that SouthPark has no more room left and little room to expand. There are hardly any stores left that would close anymore, so without an expansion I really can't see any new stores opening for a while. They definitely could expand though, as SouthPark is always pretty full and all of the stores seem to be doing very well. Every Saturday (including my visit to the mall yesterday) is just very crowded but the mall is spacious enough to make it not seem so bad.

Edited October 17, 2011 by ct36

[Guest]

Gilly Hicks would be a major thing for Charlotte since Atlanta doesn't even have one yet. They should already, but apparently Lenox's shrink would be too high for them to consider to open there, and Mall of Georgia is really just to far from Atlanta, but who knows. The Finish Line space would be a perfect fit (good location, near A&F, and perfect size). If the Apple expansion does happen, then I would assume Sur La Table would move. But where? The only place I could think of is to the old Brooks Brothers store, which is not in a very good location. Hopefully one day Tommy Bahama will move somewhere and then they can get two new boutiques (maybe Chanel or Ferragamo, etc.) or something. The problem is that SouthPark has no more room left and little room to expand. There are hardly any stores left that would close anymore, so without an expansion I really can't see any new stores opening for a while. They definitely could expand though, as SouthPark is always pretty full and all of the stores seem to be doing very well. Every Saturday (including my visit to the mall yesterday) is just very crowded but the mall is spacious enough to make it not seem so bad.

In case you haven't noticed we are on the brink of another recession. None of your talk of boutiques is feasible, nobody is going to open a ferragamo, Chanel or Gilly Hicks. Charlotte might get some of these someday, but not til this horrid economy turns around. Let's focus on trendy, low price retailers...

[caterpillar2]

I believe that despite the continuation of the recession, there is a huge audiance out there that will still support the most exclusive boutiques. Some people are fortunate enough to be recession proof.

[Guest]

I believe that despite the continuation of the recession, there is a huge audiance out there that will still support the most exclusive boutiques. Some people are fortunate enough to be recession proof.

Yes, elsewhere in the country... There is not a big enough of an audience in Charlotte to warrant more than what we currently have with Hermes, Burberry, St. John, Louis Vuitton, Neimen Marcus and etc. There has just been too many high paying jobs lost. Numerous people in my immediate family are Ferragamo Fans, in the 1990s-2000s my mom would ONLY wear their shoes, I understand that the audience exists. I'm just saying while there is Neimen Marcus; Copelands; Bob Ellis; Capital; Taylor, Richards, and Conger and Paul Simon, there is little need for One Brand LUXURY Boutiques.

[101_ce]

In case you haven't noticed we are on the brink of another recession. None of your talk of boutiques is feasible, nobody is going to open a ferragamo, Chanel or Gilly Hicks. Charlotte might get some of these someday, but not til this horrid economy turns around. Let's focus on trendy, low price retailers...

You do realize that recessions mostly only affect people who lose their jobs, right? Chances are, people who can afford the boutiques at SouthPark aren't worried about job security. Trendy, low price retailers will not work at SouthPark. Too many SouthPark shoppers are generally too wealthy and too conservative for them to care about low price trendy retailers like H&M and Forever 21. This is not Carolina Place we're talking about here.

[Guest]

You do realize that recessions mostly only affect people who lose their jobs, right? Chances are, people who can afford the boutiques at SouthPark aren't worried about job security. Trendy, low price retailers will not work at SouthPark. Too many SouthPark shoppers are generally too wealthy and too conservative for them to care about low price trendy retailers like H&M and Forever 21. This is not Carolina Place we're talking about here.

No, that is not how a recession works. THEY HURT EVERYONE. While most of the wealthy shoppers you speak still have their jobs lots have lost tons of money in the market, I lost 6 figures when Wells "saved" Wachovia. Bonuses are down, people aren't getting raises, the top 5th of Americans saw a significant loss in income. Not to sound stuck up but, I was raised in Upper Crust, Old Money Myers Park, I golf at country clubs and I when I lived in Charlotte I shopped at SouthPark, I grew up with the most elite families in Charlotte, and EVERYONE IS BEING CAREFUL WITH THEIR MONEY! Lets not forget that its mostly the new money Charlotteans (Bankers, Lawyers, Developers) shop at the Ultra Lux Boutiques you mention, and those are the ones that were the most affected by the recession.

Edited October 18, 2011 by Guest

[mallguy]

How luxury stores are doing is a verifiable, observable fact- just look at same-store sales reported by luxury retailers.

[Guest]

Yes of course luxury stores are trending up... Its hard not to trend up after 2007-08, they have stopped expansion, cut THOUSANDS of jobs, outsourced, decreased quality, and licensed out design. I work in the apparel industry, as a production/pre-production coordinator, I know how it works. You go to Trina Turk and Spend $288 on a RAYON SHIRT! Its hard not to profit when you are selling 30 dollar goods for 300 dollars. This is beside the point. Luxury Stores are doing well in other parts of the country, but the market is much to volatile. Wachovia is gone, Bank of America is cutting tens of thousands of jobs nationwide, the once great financial powerhouse is barely hanging on by a thread, and is doing everything it can to recover.

In 2003 Ferragamo had ambitious plans to have 20 US Stores by 2004, they have only managed to open 14 by 2011. This doesn't sound like breakneck expansion... If that's not a true sign of the recession's impact on more than just the jobless I don't know what is.

[ah59396]

That once great finanical powerhouse just posted 5.9B in profits for the quarter.

And Wells had record 3rd quarter profits 4.1B.

Somebody gets this money.

Not a dig at you Burg, I know they've had some major issues, but it's not all doom and gloom all the time for the big boys.

[Guest]

That once great finanical powerhouse just posted 5.9B in profits for the quarter.

And Wells had record 3rd quarter profits 4.1B.

Somebody gets this money.

Not a dig at you Burg, I know they've had some major issues, but it's not all doom and gloom all the time for the big boys.

Wells isn't ours anymore regardless, and BofA still plans on cutting tens of thousands of jobs.

[ah59396]

I agree, Wells isn't ours.

But it still employs thousands of people who make great money in Charlotte and headquarters its entire securities division out of Charlotte, along with its general east coast operations. It's not what Wachovia was for Charlotte, doubt it ever will be. But good news for Wells is good news for Charlotte.

Edit: I'll end it there. This isn't the thread for arguing about the banks, even if I made the initial point. But I live in south Charlotte and as far as I can see, there is still plenty of money being flaunted and thrown around and more than enough spending to support specialty boutiques in the Southpark area.

Edited October 18, 2011 by ah59396

[Guest]

I'm not so sure... While I do agree there is obviously plenty of money being thrown about... Its still not like it was before. I just think its going to be a long while before luxury retailers feel Charlotte can handle more boutiques. Who knows maybe we will make a good enough impression at the DNC for the rest of the world to take notice that we are still hanging in there.

I do have to laugh at the idea that recessions only affect people that lose their jobs, what a crock of crap... Thank you ct36 for the fit of giggles.

Edited October 18, 2011 by Guest

[DigitalSky]

Yeah Nibletodell has a point, it is not only people who lose their jobs that a recession affects. I know people who are making less having a job than they did on unemployment.

Edited October 18, 2011 by DigitalSky

[StevenRocks]

A new James Avery jewelry boutique has opened in the old Jessica McClintock space and Lovesac has opened in part of the old Foot Locker space next to GNC. Both are market exclusives, as is The Container Store, which recently replaced Joseph Beth Booksellers..The former Finish Line space is being renovated for an unnamed tenant. My guess is Sur La Table, since it's speculated that Apple wants to expand into its space.

Belk SouthPark has opened its renovated Level 1, which now houses the entire home store and a relocated wine shop. Arthur's restaurant has been renovated, too. Level 4 sports expanded intimate apparel and Today's Woman departments, and a couple of misses departments will move from Level 3 to Level 4, to accomodate a larger juniors department on Level 3.

Edited October 19, 2011 by StevenRocks

[ah59396]

I think you all make valid points. Possibly the truest indication of our economic status is the fact that we are debating it, as opposed to drooling over the latest addition to charlotte's skyline!

[101_ce]

where have you been? you may want to follow up in some of the other Charlotte threads that are actually about the economy before posting a statement like that in a mall topic. Charlotte IS diversifying its portfolio. Dozens of energy companies have expanded/moved to Charlotte. Charlotte is well aware that its bread and butter of the 90's and 00's is flat-lining. We aren't stupid, but thanks for the incite; now go educate the rest of the country who must still think Charlotte is totally reliant on banks.

ANYWAY, so how about what this thread is actually about? Has anyone heard anything about the Apple expansion?

Yeah, and if you have not noticed, thousands of Americans are ticked off at the American banks banking practices. We still have a sit in going on in Woodruff Park and they have already marched from the Downtown District up Peachtree Street 1.2 miles to the Midtown District where the Bank of America Plaza stands at a glorious 1,023 ft. We still think of it as C&S Plaza, and know Bank of American is really Nationsbank, the "real" Bank of America died when it was snatched from San Francisco, like some of our bank were. So they reach the BoA Plaza and riot and protest almost breaking all the ceiling to floor glass on the lobby level. We all know Charlotte has those gleeming bank towers that were paid for at the expense of other people in other states. So with the economy the way it is and the rising hatrid for the big banks, I do not think Charlotte will see any gleeming towers for some time. Now you can get back on topic if you wish.

As for Apple, I've heard that Sur La Table will move to the former Finish Line space, and then they will move there. Then Apple will expand their store. It would be the largest in the south it seems like, probably even including Florida for once.

I think that's one of the dumbest things I've ever heard. When they get finished with their little riot, the banks will have to pay to repair their buildings, and will probably raise prices even more. Why would they do that? It's not going to help anything, just make it worse.

[101_ce]

Hmmm....well this is what I've got so far:

(from a article about the True Religion store)

"Located in Charlotte’s affluent southeast quadrant, SouthPark Mall is one of the premier shopping destinations in the Carolinas and is the exclusive home in the region to several premium brands, including Neiman Marcus, Tiffany and Burberry. SouthPark Mall boasts 1.5 million square feet of retail space and is within close proximity to two major highways (I-77 & I- 485). There are 700,000 people within ten miles of the mall with average household incomes in excess of $80,000 per year. This will be the first True Religion Apparel store in the region."

and

“With sales per square foot in excess of $700, SouthPark Mall is the ideal location to introduce a True Religion Brand Jeans store to the Carolinas,” said Michael Buckley, president of True Religion Apparel, Inc.

Edited October 23, 2011 by ct36

[mallguy]

$700 of sales per square foot is very high. Wow.

The average US mall does just over $386/sf, based on the numbers I have:

http://retailtrafficmag.com/research/reports/mall_sales_per_square_foot_05032011/

[101_ce]

$700 of sales per square foot is very high. Wow.

The average US mall does just over $386/sf, based on the numbers I have:

http://retailtraffic..._foot_05032011/

I would assume that puts it in Simon's top 10 alongside Lenox Square/Phipps Plaza, Houston Galleria, Fashion Valley, Forum at Caesar's, Aventura, King of Prussia, etc.

That is odd that you never see it or Lenox in the top performing malls, and yet they show ones in the 600's, when SouthPark and Lenox are both in the 700's?

[Guest]

Hmmm....well this is what I've got so far:

(from a article about the True Religion store)

"Located in Charlotte’s affluent southeast quadrant, SouthPark Mall is one of the premier shopping destinations in the Carolinas and is the exclusive home in the region to several premium brands, including Neiman Marcus, Tiffany and Burberry. SouthPark Mall boasts 1.5 million square feet of retail space and is within close proximity to two major highways (I-77 & I- 485). There are 700,000 people within ten miles of the mall with average household incomes in excess of $80,000 per year. This will be the first True Religion Apparel store in the region."

and

“With sales per square foot in excess of $700, SouthPark Mall is the ideal location to introduce a True Religion Brand Jeans store to the Carolinas,” said Michael Buckley, president of True Religion Apparel, Inc.

The numbers in there are pretty suspect, speaking that South Park is 1.79 million square feet. Even so, I want the sales numbers for the luxury stores that encompass only 10-20% of the mall. However, $700 per sq feet is absolutely astounding! Thats great news, and I really appreciate those numbers! I just need more, since south park has countless stores unique to the region its hard for it not to be successful.