SouthPark Mall

[KJHburg]

On 9/19/2019 at 1:56 PM, TheOneRJ said:

Retail might be dead but this mall is definitely thriving. 

I was in the mall for the first time in months and lots of shoppers and I counted at least 3 stores that began online and now have brick and mortar.  UnTuckit, Warby Parker, and Tommy Johns.   I saw one small vacancy and shoppers everywhere.  So many destination stores at SouthPark it is thriving.  Like American Girl (glad my nieces have grown out of that) but it still packs them in.  Macys Backstage on the bottom level of Macys offers TJMaxx and Homegoods type pricing.  Malls are reinventing themselves and while no new malls will probably built in Charlotte we will see further changes.  Southpark and Concord Mills are the top area malls despite great differences pack people in year round. 

Edited September 21, 2019 by KJHburg

[Temeteron]

Sephora has reopened bigger and better with balloons and much fanfare! Also, the line for the new iPhones at Apple was super long yesterday.  

[TheOneRJ]

2 hours ago, Temeteron said:

Sephora has reopened bigger and better with balloons and much fanfare! Also, the line for the new iPhones at Apple was super long yesterday.  

May or may not have been apart of that line. 

[TylerFerreroSorel]

So, Gucci is opening soon at the Mall at Green Hills in Nashville... Still no location in Charlotte. 

[Cadi40]

There are numerous bankers, executives, etc. that would shop at Gucci. 

[Temeteron]

2 minutes ago, Cadi40 said:

There are numerous bankers, executives, etc. that would shop at Gucci. 

 

13 hours ago, TylerFerreroSorel said:

So, Gucci is opening soon at the Mall at Green Hills in Nashville... Still no location in Charlotte. 

To be honest, Gucci‘S image has become very hood over the past few years.  They have some selections at Neiman Marcus but the high top shoes are the only things that really sell significantly.  In Europe it has a different association, but even there we don’t really care for it much (I’m European).  

[CLT2014]

15 minutes ago, Cadi40 said:

There are numerous bankers, executives, etc. that would shop at Gucci. 

Banking types don't dress like the image below. They wear a Peter Millar polo on the weekend and talk about golf. While people may be able to afford it, you don't see many people in Charlotte trying to pull the Gucci look off.

https://www.gucci.com/us/en/pr/men/ready-to-wear-for-men/coats-for-men/gg-wool-coat-p-598710Z8AF19702?position=2&listName=VariationOverlay

Edited November 3, 2019 by CLT2014

[Cadi40]

I was in no way conveying that anyone in Charlotte would even consider dressing like that, but they would consider maybe buying some loafers or a belt.

[TylerFerreroSorel]

6 hours ago, Cadi40 said:

I was in no way conveying that anyone in Charlotte would even consider dressing like that, but they would consider maybe buying some loafers or a belt.

Exactly. No one dresses like that in Charleston or Nashville, either.

[Temeteron]

33 minutes ago, TylerFerreroSorel said:

Exactly. No one dresses like that in Charleston or Nashville, either.

Now Atlanta, that is questionable haha

[Guest]

Banking types don't dress like the image below. They wear a Peter Millar polo on the weekend and talk about golf. While people may be able to afford it, you don't see many people in Charlotte trying to pull the Gucci look off.
https://www.gucci.com/us/en/pr/men/ready-to-wear-for-men/coats-for-men/gg-wool-coat-p-598710Z8AF19702?position=2&listName=VariationOverlay

Those ready to wear ‘fits are bizarre


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[U_R_]

1 hour ago, Temeteron said:

Now Atlanta, that is questionable haha

You definitely see that in Atlanta. Just look at what some of the rappers wear who are based in the ATL... cough cough Cardi. (yes... she and offset live here now so I'm counting them.)

[Temeteron]

1 hour ago, Ric0_0 said:

You definitely see that in Atlanta. Just look at what some of the rappers wear who are based in the ATL... cough cough Cardi. (yes... she and offset live here now so I'm counting them.)

It’s quite interesting to see how Atlanta has so many European boutiques in and around Buckhead and Midtown but the majority of the shoppers are people who just want to show off the signature logos.  Flips flops with logos.....hats with the logos.....belts with the logos etc.   that’s not fashion.  But it is what it is.  SMH

[TheOneRJ]

SouthPark hasn’t added a true luxury store in over a decade. 

[Rufus]

37 minutes ago, TheOneRJ said:

SouthPark hasn’t added a true luxury store in over a decade. 

Not to sound antagonistic, but is that a bad thing? It's still doing relatively well amidst a growing trend of urban shopping hubs and startup retail, not to mention the overall retail climate currently. I think the overall health of the mall is going to depend on the department stores, particularly Nordstrom since that seems to run upper middle class vs the aspiring luxury of NM, the standards of Macys and Dillards, and the hometown hub in Belk. If Nordstrom continues to be successful at SP, then the mall will be successful. 

[TheOneRJ]

39 minutes ago, Rufus said:

Not to sound antagonistic, but is that a bad thing? It's still doing relatively well amidst a growing trend of urban shopping hubs and startup retail, not to mention the overall retail climate currently. I think the overall health of the mall is going to depend on the department stores, particularly Nordstrom since that seems to run upper middle class vs the aspiring luxury of NM, the standards of Macys and Dillards, and the hometown hub in Belk. If Nordstrom continues to be successful at SP, then the mall will be successful. 

I don’t think it’s a bad thing, the mall is thriving and always has. It’s one of the highest grossing malls per sf in the country. But being the only upscale mall in the Carolinas, I’d expect more effort in attracting additional semi upscale/upscale tenants. The demographics can certainly support it and it isn’t like there’s another area in Charlotte that’s competing for a Gucci store. There are certain cities similarly sized and/or smaller than Charlotte with much better shopping, most notably Austin. 

Edited November 5, 2019 by TheOneRJ

[nakers2]

I’d like to bump this thread for the sake of speculation. having spent quite a bit of time at Southpark in the past couple months, I’ve noticed a few things, while the mall has had some, let’s say, marginal renovations throughout, the building feels dated to a degree. The individual stores have done a good job at maintaining and modernizing their store fronts, but if you look on the margins, the mall is definitely showing it’s age. Not to mention that its practically at capacity.
 

In the underground deck it is even more evident, they are in a severe need of some re-paving and repainting, and many of the ceiling tiles are missing, exposing wiring and piping. They did install new lights, but other than that, I get a sense similar to that of my old high school shortly before we moved to our new one: minimal preventative maintenance. 

I would’ve fancy to bet that SouthPark Mall is in the early stages of planning some kind of major overhaul, probably a few years down the line, any thoughts?

[Richhamleigh, DC]

2 hours ago, nakers2 said:

I would’ve fancy to bet that SouthPark Mall is in the early stages of planning some kind of major overhaul, probably a few years down the line, any thoughts?

Yes, I can see the building being converted to streets connected to adjacent neighborhoods and parking-only areas converted to leasable, saleable space built on surface lots and around structured lots.  Essentially, an outdoor, walkable, "downtown" of luxury housing, workspace, galleries, entertainment and retail.  Now...how do you connect it to Uptown via fixed rail?

Edited December 10, 2019 by Phillydog

[nakers2]

9 hours ago, Phillydog said:

Yes, I can see the building being converted to streets connected to adjacent neighborhoods and parking-only areas converted to leasable, saleable space built on surface lots and around structured lots.  Essentially, an outdoor, walkable, "downtown" of luxury housing, workspace, galleries, entertainment and retail.  Now...how do you connect it to Uptown via fixed rail?

I don't think reducing the parking would fly in Southpark, at least not for a while. I can see the main building being maintained, but as you said, any degree of surface parking erased and possibly even developing on top of the decks. Unfortunately I feel the nibmy's in Southpark might take issue with anything that raised the height of the building for the sole reason that right now, while already a big mall, it sits in a natural depression making it well hidden. 

[KJHburg]

I will say this again Simon is not going to do any massive redevelopment of this mall anytime soon.  Why should they it is one of their crown jewels in their malls nationwide based on sales per square foot and it is the best performing mall in the Carolinas.  

[ertley]

It may not be likely anytime soon, but I hope it will eventually happen. I have for years wanted to see South Park totally redeveloped, and I think it would be (relatively) easy to do. Most of the perimeter areas facing the two major thoroughfares and other arterial streets are utilized for parking, which makes redevelopment possible without having to completely tear down the existing structure before replacing it. Build new, replacement blocks of buildings along the perimeters facing Sharon and Fairview, then Morrison. Build the new buildings along Fairview as tall as possible, with ground floor retail (built to custom specs of tenants interested in the new spaces replacing the soon-to-be demolished mall, with either offices and/or luxury apartments and condos on floors two and above. When enough of the new blocks are constructed,  start the demolition of the mall in phases--specifically first with the east/west center section, the oldest part--with those displaced tenants in the new retail areas. You don't have to demo the north/south arcades until later, just get rid of the central (oldest) east/west axis first to then extend Carnegie as the new east/west street through the development, literally following the path of the current mall arcade, connecting to Sharon at the present east entrance to the mall. Then build your second wave of buildings, (necessarily) somewhat smaller in footprint (but possibly taller) along the new Carnegie. Those buildings also, of course, have ground floor retail, and the next wave of displaced tenants (in the north/south arcades) are then relocated to them before those sections' demolition. 

 

If you employed the existing ingress/egress roads, each anchor store could easily have a facade on a street in the new South Park: Nordstrom on a minimum of three sides (Park, Bulfinch and whatever that is on the west), Belk on the corner of Park and Bulfinch, Neiman's facing south on Bulfinch--and all three even facing a center park area--with Dillard's and Macy's, with two street facades, on upper Park.

The biggest planning headache, of course,  is assuring enough parking to replace each existing structure as it's torn down. Start demolition of the first current parking structure and its re-construction in early January, to hopefully replace it by the next holiday season. If the developers  can't afford to build most or all new parking decks below the new structures, then it's easy to strategically place new, narrower, but taller replacement decks on "interior" streets in the new village. The parking deck to the east of Dillard's, though, is perfectly situated to be rebuilt fairly tall, and wrapped by new development on all sides, to serve as a primary (above ground) deck for the area. 

World class cities don't have their principal shopping areas in suburban-style malls, and I think the sooner South Park as we know it is gone, the better it is for Charlotte, and not merely for its perception. The emergence of South End shows that giving people venues to congregate in helps keep a city vibrant and builds a civic culture, and the more opportunities you have for that the better. The stranglehold Simon's leasing practices puts on major retailers' abilities, or lack thereof, to locate in other areas of Charlotte is a shame. If Simon could redevelop the property properly, its revenue generated by the property would explode with those numerous multi-story, multi-use properties. South Park just isn't the classic South Park it once was, and its jumbled exterior mediocrity, compared to then, makes me look forward to its demise.   

Edited December 10, 2019 by ertley
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[nakers2]

2 hours ago, KJHburg said:

I will say this again Simon is not going to do any massive redevelopment of this mall anytime soon.  Why should they it is one of their crown jewels in their malls nationwide based on sales per square foot and it is the best performing mall in the Carolinas.  

I'd argue this is a reason to redevelop, I think the mall could more justify a massive revamp now than in 10 years. It is full up and new retail to Charlotte is and will seek space elsewhere. I think with a massive mobilization and initial labor investment, combined with intensive pre-planning, the bulk of any renovation/rebuilding could be achieved in the course of a year, starting just after the holiday shopping season, with more detailed/sectional work being done over the following year, wrapping up with new perimeter development after that. 2.5 to 3 year project. 

[TheOneRJ]

I guess it’s subjective, but the mall doesn’t look like it’s aging to me whatsoever on the interior at least. 

[urbanlover568]

If mall's doesn't adapt to the changing market, then they will fail.  For the first time I did all my shopping online and didn't step foot in the mall. Saved a day of walking and waiting in line. New malls have mixed use and entertainment options besides a movie theater. 

[nakers2]

1 hour ago, TheOneRJ said:

I guess it’s subjective, but the mall doesn’t look like it’s aging to me whatsoever on the interior at least. 

If you know where to look you can tell, and the underground deck is a good upskirt shot of the malls age.