SouthPark Mall

[TheOneRJ]

10 hours ago, CLT2014 said:

Charleston and Nashville have significantly more tourists / leisure visitors from across the country than we do that shop while on vacation. Your average flight into Charlotte doesn't have many people saying "Oh yeah, just flying into Charlotte for the weekend to see the sights and vacation." Our visitors are business travelers, visiting family / friends that live here, or regional (within 4 hours drive). In addition, the entertainment industry in Nashville leads to a likely greater portion of the population where Gucci fashion might benefit their career, et. compared to Charlotte. 

I don’t necessarily thing tourism numbers played a roll. In 2019, Charlotte had more tourists than Nashville and Charleston did combined (29.2M vs 23.4M). All three have comparable average spending among their visitors ($7-$8 billion annually). Charlotte was able to score a Hermès store pre our 2000/2010 boom, and even though it has since closed, that shows the strength of the Charlotte market.

10 hours ago, Temeteron said:

Yeah I saw that it opened literally right before Christmas.  It’s interesting that Charleston and Nashville had a location way before we did.  However neither have a Neiman Marcus. That might have played a role.  Now that the Gucci store opened NM does not carry as much of their merchandise anymore.  

I’m not sure when Gucci first opened in Charleston, but the Nashville store only opened about a year ago. NM still carries everything they did before our store opened, so does Nordstrom. Both selections were extremely limited, so there wasn’t really a need to pull them. One of the associates informed me that our Gucci store will carry ready to wear clothing eventually as well, which NM and Nordstrom have never done in Charlotte.

Overall, Charlotte is still the clear front runner for upscale shopping in the Carolinas/Tennessee. SouthPark received its first expansion of luxury stores in 2004 when Nordstrom opened vs 2011 for Nashville. King Street in Charleston is slightly harder to track, but their LV store just opened in 2016. 

Edited January 7, 2021 by TheOneRJ

[KJHburg]

One of the most favorite activities  for most tourists is shopping.  So I can understand Gucci opening up in Charleston with its tourists before Charlotte.  Charlotte's "tourists" are mainly business travelers who are not here long enough to go out and shop.  They are here for meetings, business dinners, sales calls etc.     But of course Charlotte is by far the strongest retail market in both Carolinas for sure.  

[CharlotteWkndBuzz]

Regardless of how we stack up against other tourist shopping destinations in other cities, Charlotte has a lot of ppl with a lot of disposable income and is a destination in it’s  own right.  Any pro city with multiple pro sports (nfl, nba, etc), nascar folk, ceos, bankers, rappers (dababy lol)...luxury stores will be sustainable here. Not as luxurious as Gucci but good lord, can we get a Zara here? Zara would be like an apple store. If you build it they will come. South Park,  Southend, would be hell of an anchor to pop uptown’s retail cherry.  Closest Zara is atl and Tysons corner. Charlotte is the perfect in between. 

Edited January 7, 2021 by CharlotteWkndBuzz

[Temeteron]

2 hours ago, KJHburg said:

One of the most favorite activities  for most tourists is shopping.  So I can understand Gucci opening up in Charleston with its tourists before Charlotte.  Charlotte's "tourists" are mainly business travelers who are not here long enough to go out and shop.  They are here for meetings, business dinners, sales calls etc.     But of course Charlotte is by far the strongest retail market in both Carolinas for sure.  

You’d be surprised.  I Uber part time and I’ve had so many passengers who are just randomly visiting here all the time.  Just today I had a group of ladies from Miami area who came here for a few days and also went to Asheville.  When I asked why did they choose here,  they said they wanted to see Charlotte+Asheville, and that they’ve  heard great things about this area.  Not sure why they didn’t go to Charleston but in any case....

•Charleston has the ocean which will always be an advantage against us 

•Nashville has marketed itself greatly as a music city 

•We are slowly becoming more of a destination, just taking longer than expected

Edited January 7, 2021 by Temeteron

[Temeteron]

Forgot to mention a few other things I noticed last week when I was at the mall:

•NM’s inventory in the men’s dept was way lower than usual.  It seemed really odd.  I asked one of the associates that I’ve known for many years and he told me it’s because they have been so busy, but for some reason I didn’t believe that statement.  They usually had more selection of brands and some were not present at all. 
 

•Aldo has closed.  This was a shocker.  They’ve been in SP for 20 years.  Not many stylish shoe stores to shop from anymore and they were one of the few 

•Samsonite is closing.  They had a 50% off sale 
 

[TheOneRJ]

29 minutes ago, Temeteron said:

Forgot to mention a few other things I noticed last week when I was at the mall:

•NM’s inventory in the men’s dept was way lower than usual.  It seemed really odd.  I asked one of the associates that I’ve known for many years and he told me it’s because they have been so busy, but for some reason I didn’t believe that statement.  They usually had more selection of brands and some were not present at all. 
 

•Aldo has closed.  This was a shocker.  They’ve been in SP for 20 years.  Not many stylish shoe stores to shop from anymore and they were one of the few 

•Samsonite is closing.  They had a 50% off sale 
 

I definitely noticed NM had a lot less variety as well. I had just assumed it was because of the holidays and they don’t have a lot of inventory back in stock yet. COVID has killed off a lot of stores at the mall, but I’m sure they’ll quickly be replaced. Perfect opportunity for Simon to pull in some of the majors our market is still missing, like the Zara mentioned above. 

Edited January 7, 2021 by TheOneRJ

[Cityplanner]

Does anyone else find it odd that luxury stores come and go at SouthPark?

I haven't been to that mall in ages, but there was a Polo store, Hermes, another high-end men's store next to Neiman Marcus and plenty of others--even nicer stores such as Frontgate--that are long-gone.  Years ago there was a Brooks Brothers near Belk.  All long-gone. Those are certainly desirable stores that I'd think Simon would really want to keep--particularly Hermes.

I was upset over the Brooks Brothers in Greenville closing, but then I remembered the revolving door of nicer stores at SouthPark; losing one doesn't indicate anything about the mall's future prospects to attract more.

[Temeteron]

27 minutes ago, Cityplanner said:

Does anyone else find it odd that luxury stores come and go at SouthPark?

I haven't been to that mall in ages, but there was a Polo store, Hermes, another high-end men's store next to Neiman Marcus and plenty of others--even nicer stores such as Frontgate--that are long-gone.  Years ago there was a Brooks Brothers near Belk.  All long-gone. Those are certainly desirable stores that I'd think Simon would really want to keep--particularly Hermes.

I was upset over the Brooks Brothers in Greenville closing, but then I remembered the revolving door of nicer stores at SouthPark; losing one doesn't indicate anything about the mall's future prospects to attract more.

The Brooks brothers moved to philips place but I can’t imagine that being a better location 

[KJHburg]

Brooks Brothers is somewhat of a destination store and since it is mainly aimed at men who like to get in and get out Phillips Place is probably good location.  You can pull up your luxury sports car right to the front door.

Frontgate got out of the retail store building however they do have an outlet store still at Carolina Pavilion shopping center.  

Luxury retail is in great flux as you can imagine.  Really don't think the changes at Southpark are mall related but industry wide related. 

[TheOneRJ]

11 hours ago, Cityplanner said:

Does anyone else find it odd that luxury stores come and go at SouthPark?

I haven't been to that mall in ages, but there was a Polo store, Hermes, another high-end men's store next to Neiman Marcus and plenty of others--even nicer stores such as Frontgate--that are long-gone.  Years ago there was a Brooks Brothers near Belk.  All long-gone. Those are certainly desirable stores that I'd think Simon would really want to keep--particularly Hermes.

I was upset over the Brooks Brothers in Greenville closing, but then I remembered the revolving door of nicer stores at SouthPark; losing one doesn't indicate anything about the mall's future prospects to attract more.

The stores leading to NM do not seem to last. That is where Hermès, MontBlanc, Ralph Lauren, Tesla, Brooks Brothers, BCBG, Trina Turk, and Samsonite all were located (and all have since closed). 

[Temeteron]

6 hours ago, TheOneRJ said:

The stores leading to NM do not seem to last. That is where Hermès, MontBlanc, Ralph Lauren, Tesla, Brooks Brothers, BCBG, Trina Turk, and Samsonite all were located (and all have since closed). 

MontBlanc was in the dillards wing actually on the corner across from Godiva. 

Edited January 8, 2021 by Temeteron

[gman430]

Did all of those retailers move to another location or completely close down? 

[Temeteron]

5 hours ago, gman430 said:

Did all of those retailers move to another location or completely close down? 

The only one that I thought would do well and made sense in the first place for the Charlotte market was Ralph Lauren.  All the other ones seemed like stores that would only work for markets like Atlanta or Miami.  Trina Turk didn’t even last a year (the spot right next to NM).  Juicy Couture was one of the original tenants across from there which lasted a very long time but that company as a brand died away in general.  Not sure why Hermès closed.  

[videtur quam contuor]

Hermes closed because it was a store that sold scarves and ties. I was in there once. It reminded me of a long ago SNL skit about the Scotch Tape store. Varieties of cellophane tape and dispensers at an everyday mall. People came in, asked for some specialty tape item, the staff had to say they did not have that precise item in stock. The store was so weirdly specific nothing was ever sold. It was one of the funny, then weird, then sad skits they did in the glory years of the show. That is what Hermes was like for me.

edit: It was named "The Scotch Boutique" skit. You can find it online.

Edited January 8, 2021 by tarhoosier

[turbocraig]

Billy Reid was also over there.  Next to where Hermes was, IIRC.  I love his clothes.  Shopped there often, although not often enough it would seem since it closed after a couple years.  They offered scotch (not tape) while you shopped which was nice, if I were a scotch man (I'm not).  I've been to their Charleston store which is very cool.  The small basement is full of their sale and clearance stuff.

[Cityplanner]

Thanks- Billy Reid was the store I was thinking of. 

I looked it up online and there are still a bunch of Billy Reid stores around, including around the Southeast. 
There are plenty of Hermes locations that do fine.

These 2 examples make me wonder why they (and other high-end retailers) didn't work out at SouthPark--they seem to do fine elsewhere.  But if Gucci just opened, clearly it looked at the information it had, which I would think would have included sales figures from other luxury stores at SouthPark, and figured that it could make money.

[Temeteron]

27 minutes ago, Cityplanner said:

Thanks- Billy Reid was the store I was thinking of. 

I looked it up online and there are still a bunch of Billy Reid stores around, including around the Southeast. 
There are plenty of Hermes locations that do fine.

These 2 examples make me wonder why they (and other high-end retailers) didn't work out at SouthPark--they seem to do fine elsewhere.  But if Gucci just opened, clearly it looked at the information it had, which I would think would have included sales figures from other luxury stores at SouthPark, and figured that it could make money.

I think it also has to do with shifting trends.  A lot of people work from home now even before Covid.  I worked at Neiman back in 2008 and I can confirm that there were way more men buying suits back then.  Now the men’s dept there is all urban high top shoes and flashy overpriced T-shirts.  Same with Hermès, people don’t wear ties and scarves like they used to .  At least not in Charlotte 

[TylerFerreroSorel]

The Mall at Green Hills in Nashville is getting a Zara...

[TheOneRJ]

1 hour ago, TylerFerreroSorel said:

The Mall at Green Hills in Nashville is getting a Zara...

That mall is owned by Taubman Centers who really specialize in attracting higher end tenants. Taubman developed Northlake Mall, but sold it a few years ago. I think Zara will end up in Charlotte sooner rather than later. 

[KJHburg]

Well now Simon owns Taubman so I am sure Zara has looked at Southpark and vacancy was higher until recently.  Plenty of Zara's in Simon malls so hopefully they will come soon. 

Simon Property Group Completes Acquisition of Taubman (therealdeal.com)

[LKN704]

I would much rather have SP get a Uniqlo or COS at this point than a Zara (both highly unlikely IMO). COS is owned by H&M Group and I really like their clothes...very high quality as well. 

My girlfriends are mostly ambivalent about their clothes (Zara), but they have really gone downhill for their men's clothes. They used to have really nice, minimal clothing, but now unfortunately that market seems to have been replaced by their sister company Massimo Dutti, which has recently just shut most of their US stores. Zara men's selection today seems like a weird combination of a thrift store that specializes in silk floral shirts, combined with crazy graphic knock-off designer tees and sneakers. Don't even get me started on their employees...they make DMV workers look friendly and pleasant. 

Maybe I am too minimal, but I personally feel that Gucci has fallen out of favor except for foreigners and wannabe influencers...the explosion of everyone wearing a Gucci belt walking around these days makes me sick. 

I could also see a Club Monaco or a Boss/Hugo Boss doing well at SP. 

 

Edited January 12, 2021 by LKN704

[sclark]

8 hours ago, LKN704 said:

I would much rather have SP get a Uniqlo or COS at this point than a Zara (both highly unlikely IMO). COS is owned by H&M Group and I really like their clothes...very high quality as well. 

My girlfriends are mostly ambivalent about their clothes, but they have really gone downhill for their men's clothes. They used to have really nice, minimal clothing, but now unfortunately that market seems to have been replaced by their sister company Massimo Dutti, which has recently just shut most of their US stores. Zara men's selection today seems like a weird combination of a thrift store that specializes in silk floral shirts, combined with crazy graphic knock-off designer tees and sneakers. Don't even get me started on their employees...they make DMV workers look friendly and pleasant. 

Maybe I am too minimal, but I personally feel that Gucci has fallen out of favor except for foreigners and wannabe influencers...the explosion of everyone wearing a Gucci belt walking around these days makes me sick. 

I could also see a Club Monaco or a Boss/Hugo Boss doing well at SP. 

 

+1 for Uniqlo... it's like a high-quality H+M, but less trendy. Great wardrobe staples for cheap. 

[LKN704]

I frequent Uniqlo very often. This past year I made it a goal of mine to really slim down my wardrobe and I think a good majority of my clothes are from there. If anyone is in need of a good winter coat, I would say look there. I bought a nice long down coat on sale there last year for $100 dollars and the quality/warmth/style are all fantastic.

I'm kinda confused as to what our peer cities are for retail. We didn't get a H&M until the early 2010s, however growing up in Albany we got one of the first H&M stores in the country in 2000 (I remember going there with my parents, and my mom buying maternity clothes there while pregnant) and at one point in 2001 they opened up a second store in Saratoga Springs that has since closed. I'm not sure when SP got an Apple Store, but Albany had one back in 2001 (one of the first stores, I remember they used to give out Evian water bottles while you shopped). 

Albany also has a Zara, and had a Lord & Taylor that just recently closed. 

My point is that the Capital District metro area (includes Albany and Saratoga) only has a population of just a hair over a million people. In Albany's case, I'm willing to bet its relative proximity to NYC helps as people are used to driving or taking the train down for shopping, so such chains are much more familiar. 

Uniqlo so far has stuck to major cities (NY/BOS/DC/CHI/LA/SF/MIA/PHL/DEN/SEA) but COS has expanded more. Atlanta and Austin both have COS. 

I noticed the SouthEnd Madewell now has a men's section...I like their jeans. 

[Cityplanner]

Lord & Taylor would have been a great anchor for SouthPark: beautiful store and beautiful clothes; Nordstrom/Bloomingdale's clothes at Target prices.

[CLT2014]

Just now, Cityplanner said:

Lord & Taylor would have been a great anchor for SouthPark: beautiful store and beautiful clothes; Nordstrom/Bloomingdale's clothes at Target prices.

Recipe for going out of business