SouthPark Mall

[charlotteparadox]

I think the DoubleTree South Park is one of the more polarizing hotels... and somehow it is pulling off a 4 on TripAdvisor and 4.2 on Google. 

"  The lobby is beautiful - a multistory design with plenty of seating and impressive woodwork. It definitely creates an intimate, luxurious tone to your stay. " - a 5 star review by LGILMAN479 on TripAdvisor
" Needs a renovation. BADLY. Smells damp and there seems to be a rodent issue." - a 1 star review by laurelivingston on TripAdvisor

Wow super surprised no other Charlotteans have corrected this yet. So it was before my time but, the doubletree was built as The Park Hotel by the Bissell and Harris families something like that, back in the 1970s (think of it as the then-version of The Ballantyne Hotel; former family hunting grounds which became sold-off and developed into the southern part of the city’s newest mixed-use but mainly residential with a strip or hub of commercial) … It was an all-suites hotel, and actually, it was in the portfolio of the Premier Hotels Group - similarly as The Ballantyne Hotel had some international-signature trophy aspect of it before they sold to Marriott. For those who don’t know, the Premier Hotels (or Signature?) had properties like The Dorchester in London and The Breakers in Palm Beach. It was a huge huuuge deal Charlotte’s The Park Hotel was one of the twenty something in their portfolio. Imagine back then — the city’s newest sector of town, developed by Belk, Ivey, Bissell and Harris by way of Morrison … on the stomping grounds of the one and only Morrocroft Farms …. Insert The Park Hotel. Where else would you have stayed? Downtown wasn’t in fashion! SouthPark was. The end.


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[charlotteparadox]

Wow super surprised no other Charlotteans have corrected this yet. So it was before my time but, the doubletree was built as The Park Hotel by the Bissell and Harris families something like that, back in the 1970s (think of it as the then-version of The Ballantyne Hotel; former family hunting grounds which became sold-off and developed into the southern part of the city’s newest mixed-use but mainly residential with a strip or hub of commercial) … It was an all-suites hotel, and actually, it was in the portfolio of the Premier Hotels Group - similarly as The Ballantyne Hotel had some international-signature trophy aspect of it before they sold to Marriott. For those who don’t know, the Premier Hotels (or Signature?) had properties like The Dorchester in London and The Breakers in Palm Beach. It was a huge huuuge deal Charlotte’s The Park Hotel was one of the twenty something in their portfolio. Imagine back then — the city’s newest sector of town, developed by Belk, Ivey, Bissell and Harris by way of Morrison … on the stomping grounds of the one and only Morrocroft Farms …. Insert The Park Hotel. Where else would you have stayed? Downtown wasn’t in fashion! SouthPark was. The end.


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Also, on that note … it’s condominium equivalent, or should I say co-op equivalent is Morrocroft Place Apartments; a near-derelict 11-story tower of co-op apartments from 1976, adjacent to the original Morrocroft Manor, somehow still on nearly 16 acres of undeveloped prime-SouthPark land and has on-again off-again tried to re organize and redevelop for the last two decades, turning off most of the buyer market for charging $1,600 per month (mostly land tax, then building upkeep) … talk about damp? Morrocroft Place was built to house maids rooms off the outdoor trash hallway behind each kitchen… on each floor… say what! It’s also on the national historic registry. Architecturally, it’s fabulous and would be in all honesty a shame if torn down. Built by the same crowd as the “doubletree”. The more you know.


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[InSouthPark]

4 hours ago, charlotteparadox said:

Wow super surprised no other Charlotteans have corrected this yet. So it was before my time but, the doubletree was built as The Park Hotel by the Bissell and Harris families something like that, back in the 1970s (think of it as the then-version of The Ballantyne Hotel; former family hunting grounds which became sold-off and developed into the southern part of the city’s newest mixed-use but mainly residential with a strip or hub of commercial) … It was an all-suites hotel, and actually, it was in the portfolio of the Premier Hotels Group - similarly as The Ballantyne Hotel had some international-signature trophy aspect of it before they sold to Marriott. For those who don’t know, the Premier Hotels (or Signature?) had properties like The Dorchester in London and The Breakers in Palm Beach. It was a huge huuuge deal Charlotte’s The Park Hotel was one of the twenty something in their portfolio. Imagine back then — the city’s newest sector of town, developed by Belk, Ivey, Bissell and Harris by way of Morrison … on the stomping grounds of the one and only Morrocroft Farms …. Insert The Park Hotel. Where else would you have stayed? Downtown wasn’t in fashion! SouthPark was. The end.


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My memory may be fading but wasn't the Park Hotel where the Marriott SouthPark is?  

[CLT2014]

6 hours ago, charlotteparadox said:

Wow super surprised no other Charlotteans have corrected this yet. So it was before my time but, the doubletree was built as The Park Hotel by the Bissell and Harris families something like that, back in the 1970s (think of it as the then-version of The Ballantyne Hotel; former family hunting grounds which became sold-off and developed into the southern part of the city’s newest mixed-use but mainly residential with a strip or hub of commercial) … It was an all-suites hotel, and actually, it was in the portfolio of the Premier Hotels Group - similarly as The Ballantyne Hotel had some international-signature trophy aspect of it before they sold to Marriott. For those who don’t know, the Premier Hotels (or Signature?) had properties like The Dorchester in London and The Breakers in Palm Beach. It was a huge huuuge deal Charlotte’s The Park Hotel was one of the twenty something in their portfolio. Imagine back then — the city’s newest sector of town, developed by Belk, Ivey, Bissell and Harris by way of Morrison … on the stomping grounds of the one and only Morrocroft Farms …. Insert The Park Hotel. Where else would you have stayed? Downtown wasn’t in fashion! SouthPark was. The end.


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I think you are referring to the Marriott South Park. The DoubleTree was the Guest Quarters Suite Hotel. Here's the deed transaction for the Guest Quarters: https://meckrod.manatron.com/RealEstate/SearchDetail.aspx?bk=6648&pg=126&type=BkPg

The now-Marriott was The Park Place Hotel. Here is the deed granting the property from Bissell / Park Hotel Group over to a real estate group controlled by Marriott: https://meckrod.manatron.com/RealEstate/SearchDetail.aspx?bk=20156&pg=120&type=BkPg

Edited December 2, 2022 by CLT2014

[nakers2]

The Park Hotel was where the now Marriott Hotel is. My mother used to work there, she provided room service to Whitney Houston and Huey Lewis.

[nakers2]

I’m curious if the mall would consider implementing some kind of traffic control system to show people where there are spots and not. Took me 20+ mins to find a spot today, and honestly the fact I found one was pure luck. (Person in front didn’t want to snag it for some reason) I think 9/10 mall patrons go in the first entrance they see, and for a big portion of them it’s the underground deck. Especially in the winter. Even on busy days I tend to find that the top of the Belk deck is empty or sparsely used. Not sure if that was the case today as I found a spot before going up, but I can only imagine that frustration causes some customers to give up, and causes countless arguments (as I’ve see today) not to mention pollution and wasted fuel. Can’t be good with all that wafting into the building from below. 

[CLT2014]

4 minutes ago, nakers2 said:

I’m curious if the mall would consider implementing some kind of traffic control system to show people where there are spots and not. Took me 20+ mins to find a spot today, and honestly the fact I found one was pure luck. (Person in front didn’t want to snag it for some reason) I think 9/10 mall patrons go in the first entrance they see, and for a big portion of them it’s the underground deck. Especially in the winter. Even on busy days I tend to find that the top of the Belk deck is empty or sparsely used. Not sure if that was the case today as I found a spot before going up, but I can only imagine that frustration causes some customers to give up, and causes countless arguments (as I’ve see today) not to mention pollution and wasted fuel. Can’t be good with all that wafting into the building from below. 

The airport has that... but 85% of Charlotte drivers can't read and still drive onto a level with a giant red sign that says FULL and drive in circles on the full level. Heaven forbid they drive up to an entire empty level as indicated by the signage. 

Edited December 10, 2022 by CLT2014

[nakers2]

12 minutes ago, CLT2014 said:

The airport has that... but 85% of Charlotte drivers can't read and still drive onto a level with a giant red sign that says FULL and drive in circles on the full level. Heaven forbid they drive up to an entire empty level as indicated by the signage. 

Eh, I can dream

[Rufus]

Morphe is closing all of its brick and mortar locations. This makes 6 vacant locations ripe for the taking. I've read popular retailer Aritzia is coming, which while not super luxury, it is massively popular in major cities. I am intrigued to see what comes now that the holidays are over. Is MCM still a kiosk? I wonder if they want a storefront. 

[Temeteron]

2 hours ago, Rufus said:

Morphe is closing all of its brick and mortar locations. This makes 6 vacant locations ripe for the taking. I've read popular retailer Aritzia is coming, which while not super luxury, it is massively popular in major cities. I am intrigued to see what comes now that the holidays are over. Is MCM still a kiosk? I wonder if they want a storefront. 

Still hoping for Zara but they’d have to do some serious shuffling around for that.  I’ve been to the Aritzia at Rosemont Outlets near Chicago O’hare and it’s very nice.  I still think a Club Monaco would be successful also.    

[LKN704]

3 hours ago, Temeteron said:

Still hoping for Zara but they’d have to do some serious shuffling around for that.  I’ve been to the Aritzia at Rosemont Outlets near Chicago O’hare and it’s very nice.  I still think a Club Monaco would be successful also.    

The more I think about it, I just don't think there is a market for Zara in Charlotte (from a fashion perspective).

It's worth noting that they are in other similarly sized markets across the country...Salt Lake City, Columbus, Portland (OR), Nashville, Austin, and San Antonio, along with many smaller markets like Albany, Buffalo, New Orleans, and Providence. 

[Temeteron]

11 minutes ago, LKN704 said:

The more I think about it, I just don't think there is a market for Zara in Charlotte (from a fashion perspective).

It's worth noting that they are in other similarly sized markets across the country...Salt Lake City, Columbus, Portland (OR), Nashville, Austin, and San Antonio, along with many smaller markets like Albany, Buffalo, New Orleans, and Providence. 

I’ll respectfully disagree.  Zara has a target for all audiences.  Street wear,  ready to wear, has baggy urban styles and also fit European styles.  It’s cute, it’s fashionable and it’s somewhat cheap. Can’t go wrong! 

[LKN704]

37 minutes ago, Temeteron said:

I’ll respectfully disagree.  Zara has a target for all audiences.  Street wear,  ready to wear, has baggy urban styles and also fit European styles.  It’s cute, it’s fashionable and it’s somewhat cheap. Can’t go wrong! 

Agree to disagree, I guess. 

I just feel like if the market was there, they would already be there. FWIW, I was under the impression that even pre-pandemic, Inditex was pausing all further expansion plans worldwide. They shuttered a number of stores (their Georgetown Zara location is now a COS, which I consider to be an upgrade so no issues there) and closed all US Massimo Dutti locations, much to my dismay. 

[Temeteron]

1 hour ago, LKN704 said:

Agree to disagree, I guess. 

I just feel like if the market was there, they would already be there. FWIW, I was under the impression that even pre-pandemic, Inditex was pausing all further expansion plans worldwide. They shuttered a number of stores (their Georgetown Zara location is now a COS, which I consider to be an upgrade so no issues there) and closed all US Massimo Dutti locations, much to my dismay. 

For some reason Charlotte was late at getting several stores that existed elsewhere including H&M,  Gucci and Hugo etc.   not quite sure why.  

[nakers2]

On 1/7/2023 at 8:59 PM, Temeteron said:

For some reason Charlotte was late at getting several stores that existed elsewhere including H&M,  Gucci and Hugo etc.   not quite sure why.  

People often joke that Charlotte is the biggest city that nobody's heard of. Obviously this is hyperbole, but it's not without merit. Charlotte for years was a large small town. People patronized local businesses or chains (Belk, Ivey's, etc) and the bank crowd uptown was the primary purchaser of high end clothing, usually not high fashion though, but rather your banker attire of suits and ties. Unfortunately this has translated into a stigma on what kind of "fashion" would succeed in the city. I think we will see a boom of smaller chains opening flagships at Southpark and around the city, and as they gain traction, the legacy luxury brands will follow. 

[InSouthPark]

On 1/7/2023 at 8:59 PM, Temeteron said:

For some reason Charlotte was late at getting several stores that existed elsewhere including H&M,  Gucci and Hugo etc.   not quite sure why.  

Every time I go into H&M, in SouthPark no less, its packed and long lines to checkout.  

On 1/7/2023 at 7:15 PM, LKN704 said:

Agree to disagree, I guess. 

I just feel like if the market was there, they would already be there. FWIW, I was under the impression that even pre-pandemic, Inditex was pausing all further expansion plans worldwide. They shuttered a number of stores (their Georgetown Zara location is now a COS, which I consider to be an upgrade so no issues there) and closed all US Massimo Dutti locations, much to my dismay. 

Just because there isn't a store here doesn't mean there isn't a demand.  See H&M point.  Now we have three.  I am sure a Zara in Southpark or Southend would more than pull their own weight. 

[charlotteparadox]

People often joke that Charlotte is the biggest city that nobody's heard of. Obviously this is hyperbole, but it's not without merit. Charlotte for years was a large small town. People patronized local businesses or chains (Belk, Ivey's, etc) and the bank crowd uptown was the primary purchaser of high end clothing, usually not high fashion though, but rather your banker attire of suits and ties. Unfortunately this has translated into a stigma on what kind of "fashion" would succeed in the city. I think we will see a boom of smaller chains opening flagships at Southpark and around the city, and as they gain traction, the legacy luxury brands will follow. 

Target demographics play into the equation, equaling with H&M being opened at Northlake instead.


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[Temeteron]

17 minutes ago, charlotteparadox said:

Target demographics play into the equation, equaling with H&M being opened at Northlake instead.


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The demographics at NL have changed dramatically and most of the stores that opened there 15 years ago have closed.  Even they there is a supertarget at NL, the busiest one in the Carolinas is the one at Midtown (I worked there briefly a few years ago)

[turbocraig]

On 1/13/2023 at 7:11 PM, Temeteron said:

Even they there is a supertarget at NL, the busiest one in the Carolinas is the one at Midtown (I worked there briefly a few years ago)

I think I had heard this before, but that is somewhat shocking to me.  I mean, it’s busy, but the busiest?  I believe you but still surprised. 

[Temeteron]

7 hours ago, turbocraig said:

I think I had heard this before, but that is somewhat shocking to me.  I mean, it’s busy, but the busiest?  I believe you but still surprised. 

Surprised? There’s people there all day nonstop from open to close lol

[videtur quam contuor]

Sales/sq ft is likely Midtown location. Not as large as Super Targets or other highway-side or sub urban or exurban location. Other metrics may vary:$/employee, profit (various measures), gross/net and others.

[turbocraig]

4 hours ago, Temeteron said:

Surprised? There’s people there all day nonstop from open to close lol

Yeah, but I feel like a lot of Targets are like that.  If someone had asked me to guess the busiest Target in two states, I don't know that any one in particular would actually come to mind, but that one wouldn't shoot to the forefront for some reason.  Maybe because it's tucked away somewhat, and also because we rarely seem to have a lot of "full-size" or busiest version of anything close to/in downtown.  But that's interesting to know.  

[Temeteron]

37 minutes ago, turbocraig said:

Yeah, but I feel like a lot of Targets are like that.  If someone had asked me to guess the busiest Target in two states, I don't know that any one in particular would actually come to mind, but that one wouldn't shoot to the forefront for some reason.  Maybe because it's tucked away somewhat, and also because we rarely seem to have a lot of "full-size" or busiest version of anything close to/in downtown.  But that's interesting to know.  

It may not be the biggest but sales wise it sold the most in the Carolinas (the manager told me this when I worked there in 2021).  It also got very busy with drive thru ordering as Covid pushed those habits as well.  

[InSouthPark]

Speaking of the mall, when is Suffolk Punch supposed to open? Seems like it was announced forever ago.

[Madison Parkitect]

1 hour ago, InSouthPark said:

Speaking of the mall, when is Suffolk Punch supposed to open? Seems like it was announced forever ago.

They're not anywhere close to opening, I'd say it's like... this fall based on how much is done outside.