SouthPark Mall

[StevenRocks]

That's still a lot of retail, statistics aside.

[veggieboifl]

Greetings everyone. When I lived in Charlotte I worked at the Banana Republic. I also worked part time at the information room that was once located across from the old Eckerds store. You may remember that it was in the old J.Riggins store loaction. We had huge pictures up of renderings of the renovations and expansions. There were store names listed on the wall as well that the Mall owners at the time Hoped to bring to the mall. I enjoyed and learned a lot while working there. I was able to answer a lot of questions. One of the things that I was able to learn while working there was that it's not possible to expand Southpark to a secound floor. Mr.Henry faison himself told me that. He said that they had previously conducted numerous soil sample tests and concluded that the soil was unable to support that,etc. It was amazing to meet him. He seemed to be a very intellignet man with lots of ambition.I thought that you guys may find this intersesting. I will say that Sawgrass Mills was previously brought up, as well as restraunts are all the time. Am incredible resteraunt here at Sawgrass is The Grand Lux Cafe. It is owned by the Cheesecake Factory. They are beautiful locations. They are building a secound location at Town Center Mall in Boca Raton where I work at Bloomingdales. I think a Charlotte location would do exceptionally well. Check out there web site.

[charlotte_bon_vivant]

Lenox Square's upper corridor was once 1-story but is now 2.

True, but they built that level at the same time they enclosed the mall. The other sections of Lenox with multiple levels were built when the mall was expanded. I could see building new levels in an expansion, but building them in the existing mall would be difficult. But I'm not an architect by trade, so I don't know taht for sure. It just seems illogical to me.

Speaking of Lenox, it does have an advantage over SP -- Phipps Plaza. Phipps is an additional 1 million square feet of space that, IMO, is an extension of Lenox (and vice versa). So it's easy for that particular mall complex to attract, say French Connection at Lenox and Hugo Boss at Phipps. But the limited space makes it difficult for SP to choose both too often. I wish the SP community would allow a bit more construction. The layout directly around the mall is awful. There is so much wasted space that consolidating even a few of those businesses would help.

[Rickydavisfan21]

thats why we need the land between morrison and colony to expand, that could be our phipps we could put a very sizable chunk of real estate on it. One of my friends used to live in those apts and they were not that great, they were pretty nice for apts but we could definately lose them.

Anyone have any info on that propety?

[charlotte_bon_vivant]

Anyone have any info on that propety?

I thought that land was being used for a mixed use project.

[Rickydavisfan21]

in the greater sp area how much retail is there? we have phillips place, southpark mall, shops at the park, Morrocroft village, the place accross fairview from sp mall, morrison place, and where the bojangles and garden secrets is going, thats a lot of sq. footage, any idea how many sq. ft of retail is in the greater southpark area?

[mallguy]

Specialty Shops on the Park should really be redeveloped; I've heard that the sales per sf there are good, but the shopping center is looking kind of dated and more retail space could be put on that land.

[StevenRocks]

True, but they built that level at the same time they enclosed the mall. The other sections of Lenox with multiple levels were built when the mall was expanded. I could see building new levels in an expansion, but building them in the existing mall would be difficult. But I'm not an architect by trade, so I don't know taht for sure. It just seems illogical to me.

I am an architect by trade and I can tell you if you don't have the soil to support a vertical expansion of an existing building, your options are limited. In most cases, it is better to tear down that building and build a new one with deeper foundations. The process involved in strengthening existing structures gets complicated with poor soils. You essentialy have to build a new building around the old one, which is rather expensive and disruptive to the occupants of the existing building.

in the greater sp area how much retail is there? we have phillips place, southpark mall, shops at the park, Morrocroft village, the place accross fairview from sp mall, morrison place, and where the bojangles and garden secrets is going, thats a lot of sq. footage, any idea how many sq. ft of retail is in the greater southpark area?

I'd say roughly 2.5 million square feet, maybe more.

Specialty Shops on the Park should really be redeveloped; I've heard that the sales per sf there are good, but the shopping center is looking kind of dated and more retail space could be put on that land.

It's a wonder that it hasn't changed, seeing as everything around it has changed a lot.

[Temeteron]

Within the next 5 years SP will change even more than what it has in the past 5 years.....somehow some way....I feel that Charlotte's retail scene can handle much more growth

[Rickydavisfan21]

oh of course it can, but its not southpark that going to be going through all that much change, its going to be the southpark area. This will be a bustling city in itself, what is the population of the southpark area anyway?

Personally I think Uptown will have the most retail in the city in 10 years, at least I hope so

and i'm wondering how long its gonna be before bissell builds a 2.0 million sq. ft mall in Ballantyne and puts Carolina Place out of business

Edited April 24, 2006 by Rickydavisfan21

[DigitalSky]

and i'm wondering how long its gonna be before bissell builds a 2.0 million sq. ft mall in Ballantyne and puts Carolina Place out of business

What's kinda sad/scary is that I can see that happening and Pineville possibly going into decline. who knows...

[Rickydavisfan21]

oh I guarantee it will happen, well the mall at least, I dunno if it would completely put Carolina Place out of business, I think CP mall will break even no matter what, but I honestly think the boutiques are gonna start flocking to ballantyne, and a huge mall will be thrown together, because if you think about it, thats the only think ballantyne doesn't have, a big huge giant mall and I'd say in the next 2-5 years one'll be announced

anybody else see a mall like this in ballantyne, its a bad idea but I swear its gonna happen, I think Ballantyne will quickly become charlottes perimiter

Edited April 24, 2006 by Rickydavisfan21

[atlrvr]

Hmmmm.....I'm not seeing a mall ever at Ballantyne....but that's simply my gut reaction.....

For the sake of sound urban planning, I hope that Charlotte has all the malls it will ever have.

[Rickydavisfan21]

I dunno, just seems like something ballantyne would do, I also hope that we are done with malls in charlotte, I would like to see Northlake expanded, and Southpark expanded as much as possible.

[StevenRocks]

oh of course it can, but its not southpark that going to be going through all that much change, its going to be the southpark area. This will be a bustling city in itself, what is the population of the southpark area anyway?

Personally I think Uptown will have the most retail in the city in 10 years, at least I hope so

and i'm wondering how long its gonna be before bissell builds a 2.0 million sq. ft mall in Ballantyne and puts Carolina Place out of business

You hit the nail on the head. The SouthPark neighborhood will continue to evolve. SouthPark mall itself will change, but it won't be as dramatic.

Uptown has a shot of gaining a bunch of retail, but it's going to have to grow a lot to surpass Pineville. Pineville in general and Carolina Place specifically will contiue to hold steady for a at least another 10 years or so. Carolina Place will probably evolve into something a little different than it is now, but it'll still have a purpose.

I don't see a regional mall at Ballantyne. I see something smaller, maybe with some upscale anchors, but not a classic enclosed deal with all the trimmings. It would be overkill, considering that malls are considered declasse by a certain segment of the population, and that market is pretty saturated as is with retail.

[Rickydavisfan21]

I don't me the classic enclosed mall I mean something more like bridges, the outdoor mall going up in mint hill, are there any outlet stores in ballantyne, cuz I could see a tanger outlet there too

[peaceloveunderstanding]

I don't me the classic enclosed mall I mean something more like bridges, the outdoor mall going up in mint hill, are there any outlet stores in ballantyne, cuz I could see a tanger outlet there too

There's no space for anything like that.

[Rickydavisfan21]

there is nothing but room, looking at online maps at least, yea I realize they aren't completely up to date but still, there is plenty of room, I realize not as much as mint hill but still plenty of undeveloped land.

[turbocraig]

There's a ton of space. Our office building has big areal photos of the developing B'tyne area in the lobby. Bissell updates them about every 6mo. Tons of undeveloped land...

[Rickydavisfan21]

tons? you mean acres hehehe, no room my butt, you could put four malls the size of sp in the land, screw it I'm gonna take out a huge loan and do my own outdoor mall. Anybody else up for that?

Edited April 25, 2006 by Rickydavisfan21

[StevenRocks]

tons? you mean acres hehehe, no room my butt, you could put four malls the size of sp in the land, screw it I'm gonna take out a huge loan and do my own outdoor mall. Anybody else up for that?

Not really. Ballantyne needs something more evolved than just another outdoor mall.

[turbocraig]

Like what? There aren't any old storefronts to transform into chi-chi shops. They could duplicate that in the Disney-like manner that Ballantyne is famous for I suppose. In fact, that'd fit in just perfectly. I could see something like Shoppes on the Park. I know others have posted that they think SotP should be redeveloped, but I really like the small, intimate feel of that little place. Of course, any B'tyne version would be on a much grander scale and totally lose that cozy atmosphere.

[peaceloveunderstanding]

there is nothing but room, looking at online maps at least, yea I realize they aren't completely up to date but still, there is plenty of room, I realize not as much as mint hill but still plenty of undeveloped land.

Where? This getting too off topic for my liking, but most of that space is already, or is in the process of being, filled in. There are still open spaces, miles down 521, but no one is going to build a super regional mall that far off the freeway. There is not enough contiguous land for a mall and its sea of parking lots close enough to 485.

The black squiqlies mark areas that are currently under development.

Edited April 25, 2006 by moonshield

[Rufus]

You know i wonder if simon would like to help Grubb in the redevelopment of Elizabeth avenue. Since that is trying to resurrect itself, and many have said that they would like to see stores like Saks or a Belk there, that may be a good idea. i dont know if Simon has ever done anything like this, and the onlything remotely close is Circle Center in Indianapolis. That may help restart the downtown retail redevelopment. it could also be a good business move by Simon which may help to spur new projects for them.

[DigitalSky]

The only place in that area that I imagine that a mall can fit is the SouthEast corner of 485 and Providence Road.