Downtown South (Sunrail/Amtrak, SODO, Orlando Health, Lymmo, Orange/Michigan Avenues)

[otowntiger1]

On ‎11‎/‎23‎/‎2016 at 3:25 PM, Jernigan said:

No rumors but it's definitely a blight and creates a gap between everything to the north and the upscale little plaza with floyds and t flats.

Agreed.  It would be really nice to see these bulldozed and something nice put in its place.  Hopefully its getting some looks.

On ‎11‎/‎23‎/‎2016 at 4:03 PM, AndyPok1 said:

Are we talking about the same ones?  The ones south of Carol's Place across from the UHaul?  I mean, even with the Pineloch trailer redevelopment happening, there's still some gaps before you reach those apartments.

Yes the same ones.  And yes there are a few things between the two but I'm not sure the point.  There are some decent business between the two but it doesn't have to all be adjacent does it?   I would just love to see the 16 acres become something that adds to the community rather than what it does now.  I know those people need to live somewhere but it doesn't have to be there in those nasty apartments.

[AndyPok1]

On 12/2/2016 at 4:36 PM, otowntiger1 said:

Yes the same ones.  And yes there are a few things between the two but I'm not sure the point.  There are some decent business between the two but it doesn't have to all be adjacent does it?   I would just love to see the 16 acres become something that adds to the community rather than what it does now.  I know those people need to live somewhere but it doesn't have to be there in those nasty apartments.

Absolutely fair, but to me, the urban fabric of Orlando basically ends at Pineloch and there's so many trouble spots between the CBD and Pineloch, I'd rather focus on that than further south.  From a purely drive-by scenario, I've never noticed them to be that vile.

[otowntiger1]

13 hours ago, AndyPok1 said:

Absolutely fair, but to me, the urban fabric of Orlando basically ends at Pineloch and there's so many trouble spots between the CBD and Pineloch, I'd rather focus on that than further south.  From a purely drive-by scenario, I've never noticed them to be that vile.

Agreed.  I'm probably just being a little selfish, but you don't get the whole picture just driving by.  My neighborhood backs up to them, there is only one house between me and them and the sounds that come from there sometimes can be annoying at best and disturbing/frightening at worst. I do get it about the urban fabric, as we are just outside of it.  These apartments are within the city limits, the property line, between our neighborhood and Holly Gardens is also the city limits, so its close.

Edited December 5, 2016 by otowntiger1

[AndyPok1]

Not at all selfish.  Absorbing that weird stretch of Orange down to Edgewood from being unincorporated Orange into Orlando is a step down the line of making this city and even better urban environment!  Just lots of steps before that.  (Welcome btw, happy to have you join us)

[otowntiger1]

Thank you.  I'm happy to have found this informative site!

[HankStrong]

On ‎12‎/‎5‎/‎2016 at 11:45 AM, otowntiger1 said:

Agreed.  I'm probably just being a little selfish, but you don't get the whole picture just driving by.  My neighborhood backs up to them, there is only one house between me and them and the sounds that come from there sometimes can be annoying at best and disturbing/frightening at worst. I do get it about the urban fabric, as we are just outside of it.  These apartments are within the city limits, the property line, between our neighborhood and Holly Gardens is also the city limits, so its close.

Don't forget the scammers that hit the WaWa with the "I'm homeless with my husband and we need $32.63 to get a motel room.  I swear it's not crack." or "My car broke down about 3 blocks away and I need a part for $26.71 to help me get back to Michigan with my wife and kids who have been in negotiations with a Nigerian Prince."

I swear, it's almost every time I stop.  They come straight from there every time.

[JFW657]

14 minutes ago, HankStrong said:

Don't forget the scammers that hit the WaWa with the "I'm homeless with my husband and we need $32.63 to get a motel room.  I swear it's not crack." or "My car broke down about 3 blocks away and I need a part for $26.71 to help me get back to Michigan with my wife and kids who have been in negotiations with a Nigerian Prince."

I swear, it's almost every time I stop.  They come straight from there every time.

What... you don't believe them??? 

Dude, you're stone cold!!!  

[John Hargrove]

That has happened to me at literally every gas station within downtown Orlando.

Unfortunately being harassed by homeless and/or the mentally ill or substance abusers is just part of life in this city. Or perhaps any decently sized city.

Edited December 13, 2016 by castorvx

[metal93]

A few times now someone tried to do that stereo scam to me at gas stations. It's almost humorous at this point, such a well-known scam and they still think they can fool people with it.

[Jernigan]

On 11/23/2016 at 3:06 PM, otowntiger1 said:

Any speculation about anything happening with Holley Garden Apartments on South Orange?  I live near there and would dearly love to see those get bulldozed and a continuation of the type of development happening on Pineloch/Orange just north of there.  There was neighborhood rumors about it being purchase or being turned over to the Feds (HUD).  This complex is currently a blight on our community. 

Holley Garden was just sold to another capital group per Growthspotter.     No other details at this time except the buyer "specializes in buying, rehabbing, re-branding and managing multi family properties."

[JFW657]

Holley Garden redux?

[GRS328]

More or less, but should be an improvement all the same. This is the same group that rehabbed the District on Baldwin Park Apartments at the SE corner of Semi-annual and Baldwin Park St. Nothing earth shattering - the structures are still the same. But they certainly turned what was basically a neglected dump into a respectable looking apartment complex.  I'd expect something similar with Holley Garden. 

[JFW657]

That's not bad.

I'd rather see the old complex rehabbed than torn down and replaced with some typically generic looking, cheaply constructed modern garbage.

 

 

[codypet]

Can someone explain what's going on in the parcel just north of that?   The one used to be an auto repair shop, but then got this massive block building in its place that's just sitting?

[JFW657]

1 hour ago, codypet said:

Can someone explain what's going on in the parcel just north of that?   The one used to be an auto repair shop, but then got this massive block building in its place that's just sitting?

I don't know, but the address of the small block building inside the same fence reads 3423 S. Orange. Maybe a quick check of the Property Appraiser website might shed some light on who owns it and maybe what type of use might be planned for it.

If it's not just sitting there abandoned, that is.

[Jernigan]

I've tried to figure that out myself and got no where.   OCPA has it belonging to a doctor but that didn't help in my search at least.   

[Jernigan]

Some permits submitted for yet another retail strip on South Orange at Hollenbeck (halfway between Miller and Kaley)

Would be a huge upgrade over what is there now from a walkability/Main Street perspective.

[smileguy]

I am a little concerned with all of these new buildings going up in SODO (and to a lesser extent Mills50) if the Main Street programs are doing more than nodding to historic preservation, which the whole program is founded on. While the buildings that were there weren't architectural gems, the character of Orange in the couple of blocks north of Michigan (what's now Central Care, Pizza Hut, and Jimmy Johns) has been completely changed into low-quality, cookie-cutter development with their backs to the street. I am disappointed that the City, and now the Main Street aren't doing all they can to get higher quality development.

[UngaBungalow]

3 hours ago, smileguy said:

I am a little concerned with all of these new buildings going up in SODO (and to a lesser extent Mills50) if the Main Street programs are doing more than nodding to historic preservation, which the whole program is founded on. While the buildings that were there weren't architectural gems, the character of Orange in the couple of blocks north of Michigan (what's now Central Care, Pizza Hut, and Jimmy Johns) has been completely changed into low-quality, cookie-cutter development with their backs to the street. I am disappointed that the City, and now the Main Street aren't doing all they can to get higher quality development.

Main Street managers don't have the teeth in their programming needed to stop development from happening. The City uses the Main Streets as a way to entice more development in those nodes, a la The Yard or Mills Park. Historic Preservation is a tenant of the larger organization, but without giving them any actual powers to control development in their boundaries, there's not much they can do but complain to City Hall. Managers spend most of their time fundraising to pay their own salaries since they're not fully-funded by the City ... so you've got to cut them some slack. 

[smileguy]

8 minutes ago, UngaBungalow said:

Main Street managers don't have the teeth in their programming needed to stop development from happening. The City uses the Main Streets as a way to entice more development in those nodes, a la The Yard or Mills Park. Historic Preservation is a tenant of the larger organization, but without giving them any actual powers to control development in their boundaries, there's not much they can do but complain to City Hall. Managers spend most of their time fundraising to pay their own salaries since they're not fully-funded by the City ... so you've got to cut them some slack. 

I'm thinking more of the small-scale redevelopment. If small property owners and decision makers at companies are bought in to the Main Street model, they would hopefully be more thoughtful about redeveloping or renovating their properties, a culture that will be created through education and involvement. This really is the organization's responsibility to create the culture, sitting more with members and boards than with staff. Staff can help connect property owners with resources - both financial and educational - to help them make the best use of their investments. 

A good example of this is the property owner in Mills50 who fixed up the Cameo, the building and parking lot behind it, and the building where Educe Salon is on Mills. The improvements helped preserve and enhance the character of the neighborhood, and I'm sure increased the rent he is able to collect on those properties.

[sunshine]

I am fine with the developments. I would like to see the city improving the basic infrastruture to enhance the pedestrian experience than just slap a main street sticker on it and call it a day.

For example,

1. Encourage radiate development instead of linear development along orange ave.

2. Building some urban parks., plant some trees and create median with actual trees (not crype mertel or palm trees).

3. Side walks and dedicated bike lane.

4. Community theatre.

5. Zoning and no more drive through.

6. Develop a long term development plan instead of having random developments that doesnt tie into each other.

7. Tie it to Sunrail.

 

[veryamusing]

On ‎1‎/‎4‎/‎2017 at 1:32 PM, Jernigan said:

I've tried to figure that out myself and got no where.   OCPA has it belonging to a doctor but that didn't help in my search at least.   

They pulled a $1.057M permit on March 27, 2014 for the new building (#B13902036).  Search Fast Track: https://fasttrack.ocfl.net/OnlineServices/PermitsAllTypes.aspx for it and you find they call the project "New Construction/w/Sitework/warehouse, office, parking Ref.Demo Permit#B12007316, B12007662 ".  There is a 12/10/16 document entitled "10 completed application", which references "Bayouth Office and Warehouse (commercial center)".

There was a variance granted at the 12/02/10 meeting of the Org Cty BZA for setback reduction to construct "commercial buildings".  #VA-10-12-099

That's the best we have--sorry we don't have more for you.

[JFW657]

I wish someone would redevelop the opposite side of Orange along that same block on both sides of the Subway.

That is the really blighted looking side.

 

[AndyPok1]

20 hours ago, smileguy said:

I am a little concerned with all of these new buildings going up in SODO (and to a lesser extent Mills50) if the Main Street programs are doing more than nodding to historic preservation, which the whole program is founded on. While the buildings that were there weren't architectural gems, the character of Orange in the couple of blocks north of Michigan (what's now Central Care, Pizza Hut, and Jimmy Johns) has been completely changed into low-quality, cookie-cutter development with their backs to the street. I am disappointed that the City, and now the Main Street aren't doing all they can to get higher quality development.

I've had this discussion in one of these threads before, but saving buildings for the sake of history doesn't mean much if it isn't functional or notable.  The current building isn't urban and generates no practical traffic.  Presumably the replacement plaza will be a restaurant/bar and a shop or two and be sidewalk adjacent without numerous driveways.  That's a win.  ESPECIALLY north of Kaley because that is a dead zone.

(With all that said, I do enjoy the quirkiness of that building and will miss it, but this is a case where the benefits significantly outweigh.)

[Jernigan]

I look at it block by block.  One neat trick on Google Maps is that in Streetview you can go back a number of years and basically time travel back to whenever Google had cameras roaming our roads.   In SoDo, that is 2007.  In fact, SoDo itself (now being referenced as SoDo Plaza...where the Target is) is just barely under construction at that time.

The building that I reported on a few posts back is definitely a good replacement as it removes a driveway and switches use.  What was there before really couldn't work as retail.  Ideally you'll want retail on the first floor and office or residential above it in an urban area.  I think the same is true for the development under construction now at 2205 S Orange (replacing a small car dealership).  

But I'll tell ya, if you look at the strip where Jimmy John's now stands (between Grant and Page or the 2300 block) didn't have to happen.   I've attached a screenshot with the BEFORE in the inset and the AFTER in the full screen which is what you'll see if you drive by now.  You had 2 separate buildings, one was 2-story and you didn't have this terrible sporty staircasing thing that you have now at that property.    These stores do fortunately have functional front doors on Orange (you'll surprise the clerk if you use them) but they really make a strange pedestrian experience.

I look at the 2500 block as a wash.  Two really downtrodden strips were/are being replaced.  It removes the frontage road-like driveway but man they did a terrible job with the Centra Care and will probably repeat with this property for consistency.   Maybe FDOT is to blame for not allowing the landscaping to be placed between the sidewalk and the road- who knows.